2017-07-28 06:01:52

Hi all. My friend is Playing Sims right now and he is describing things to me and reading some of the screens and peaces of conversation you can have with other characters. It sounds so fun. I wonder if we can get EAGames into a discussion about seeing if it can be made accessible for the blind community. I do understand that we are a small community compared to the sighted one. But, Just imagine the fun we could have with this game. There is so much that can be done in it. So, what do you all think?

2017-07-28 06:29:55

That could be challenging, in the sense that making Minecraft accessible is challenging.
There are the parts that can be made sorta-kinda Castaways-like, but then there are the people who use The Sims to create replicas of sets from cartoons, somehow.
Detailed construction aside, it does seem to be vulnerable to some Castaways-style accessibility techniques?

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2017-07-28 09:35:27

Hi.
I played it on android 3 years before writing this post.
I played I do not know what sims was but it was a verry fun one.
I think it was not accesible to talkback but I did not played on my phone, so I onli taped and swiped the screen.
Sounds and descriptions from friends were so fun.

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2017-07-28 10:32:38

hi, I think we should wait with EA-games as their working to make maddin accessible, which is already a huge step forward. Perhaps when that's done, we can see what can be done about the sims.

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2017-07-28 15:51:03

I am not certain that I have a very good understanding of how sims work beyond the fact that they are simulating something, but reading various descriptions shows me that they would definitely be my cup of tea.

Also, re post 4, I disagre. The wonderful thing about accessibility is that there are many people with many varying interests that can bring their experiences and preferences to the table in a myriad of ways. If we always waited for one project to be finished before contemplating the beginning of another, we would never get anywhere fast.
Even if a game being made accessible is not my cup of tea, I'm still going to work hard to champion it and support the need for accessibility on that front. So I say, bring on the games!

2017-07-28 16:08:34

In a nutshell, Sims is a simulation of people.

The Maxis game I'd like to see made accessible because I spent many hours enjoying it before I lost my vision is Spore.

But, like Sims, it would be very challenging to make accessible, if it's even possible.

Maxis is the developer of both Sims and Spore, EA is just the publisher.

2017-07-28 16:44:03

OK, so I used to play this, I've played Sims 2, 3, and 4 because I had enough vision to read the stuff on the screen, if only barely. A couple aspects of it could be made accessible, I feel, but other would be much more of a challenge. The text when you interact with something that gives you the choices on what you want to do in circles radiating outward with your Sim at the center, those I could see being made to work with a screen reader. A lot of the game is pointing and clicking though, like, say you choose to go from your house to somewhere in the town like a bar. You'll get there and you'll be on the street. You'd have to click somewhere on the inside of the bar, and then click walk or move or whatever. How would that be made accessible, as its a 3D environment. Also, you have to do things like click on people in order to do actions like start conversations, flirt, invite them to your house, stuff like that. How would that work. I mean, for people I could kind of see it, like, you could arrow through a list of named and hit enter to see the choices, then pick one, but the rest, I mean, same for objects, but that's so hmm, I don't know, but it takes the fun out of it in my opinion. The cool thing about being able to click somewhere and move there is you can stand anywhere, I don't like things where you have to be in a preset location, or select a preset thing. This is why I got out of second life. Because, while some aspects were accessible, I couldn't do enough on my own to justify my continued use of it.

I think it would get pretty overwhelming to say, throw a party at your house. You'll get Sims at your house and you'll need to entertain them. Keep in mind also that you need to manage your own needs. There's a pane at the bottom of the screen that has a few sections, left is like a status screen, it shows a little avatar of your face, your money, controls to pause, resume, and change the speed, controls to cut the walls out so you can see in your house, and to move to the upper floor and so on. It also has icons to switch to the other tabs, which when you do that completely changes the middle pane. But needs. You have needs, and there are consequences for not keeping them fulfilled. If you have the game on um... hmm, there is an option for this, its a slider if I remember called autonomy. What happens is, on the higher settings, the AI will have your sim do stuff, like make his own food if he's hungry, use the bathroom, shower and all that stuff, in which you're a sort of guide. The way it works is that you can queue up things that you want him to do, and that shows up in the top left of the screen, and they disappear when those things are done. On the extreme opposite is no autonomy. Here, you literally have to do that stuff, or suffer the consequences, he'll pee in his pants, get depressed and start crying, and all sorts of stuff. Needs include hunger, hygiene social, fun, bladder, probably others I'm forgetting. You would have to manage that.

Also, there are these clouds that pop up over your Sim's head on occasion to let you know what he's thinking or wanting. Like, a cloud with small z's that get bigger and bigger let you know he's ready for bed. You see stuff like a slice of pizza show up there, and you'll need to be able to have access to those clouds in order to try to fulfill them.

One area that's probably completely out is house building, but that's my favorite part of the game, so that kind of stinks. I had hours and hours of fun just building houses. Also, in that same regard, placing furniture and stuff will probably be hard too, I mean, to make it look OK.

Anyway, yeah I could go on and on about this stuff, so best to wrap it up here.

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2017-07-28 16:49:00

I think like Minecraft, a large part of the Sims games come down to creativity in how things are laid out and how they are decorated.  When sight is removed, it also removes most of those parts of the games.  Someone could pretty easily put together an accessible sims type game that focused only on the non decoration side of the game, but it might not be all that fun.  It's almost like having a job where part of it is fun and part of it is work, and someone says they're reshaping your job so the fun part was removed.  Putting in the effort to manage your sims was work, but it was worth it because it enabled you to do the graphical decoration parts, in a work/reward trade off.

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2017-07-28 16:50:57

Wow. Thumbs  up for that post. I like how some people are able to describe things that much detailed.
I haven't thought much about how to make all that accessible, but it might be possible, but also very overwhelming. I think you need to pause the game to review all that information, or have a quick way to get the information you need. But that might take the fun out of the game. The description reminds me about Castaways.

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2017-07-28 17:59:58 (edited by CAE_Jones 2017-07-28 18:02:02)

I think point-and-click isn't all that inherently inaccessible, on the grounds that touch screen accessibility is already pretty decent, and NVDA and Jaws had methods for dealing with the mouse before that. What we need is generic 3d object accessibility, and that's a much harder problem in the absence of virtual reality. Or at least, some manner of decent tactile i/o.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2017-07-28 20:24:33

I've already received emails providing suggestions for sim accessibility and sent them to the head producer of the game. If you'd like to add more, please e-mail [email protected].

2017-07-28 20:44:17

When emailing, don't worry if someone already gave your suggestion. Also, no suggestion is required, simply expressing interest is helpful. It helps the team understand that blind gamers exist and are interested in playing, which is way more powerful than anything I could say or repeat alone. This is true for any EA game.  [email protected]

2017-07-28 21:44:26

I really really want to play Sims games! I want to create and build things! I've started building things with the RTR Map maker and I'm having some trouble with it but I kind of wish it was 3D instead of 2D. I love the idea of some sort of building game for the blind if not Sims. I want to build cities develop buildings and even paint houses!

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2017-07-29 03:14:04

I imagine one way to supplement the removal of visual design would be sculpting the soundscape of the environment instead. For example, when a sim walks across the room you can hear their footsteps as they move, but what do those steps sound like, are they walking on tiled lenolium or soft carpet for example. What are the sounds of the various kitchen appliances? Microwaves, blenders, the humm of the fridge when its open or perhaps artic sounds depending on the model. The creak or sounds of stairs, etc. Wallpaper could even effect audio occlusion and reverb properties of a given room. There are many possibilities of adding unique sounds and acoustics to objects that could be just as satisfying to arrange as decorating colored wall paper and designer sofa's.

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2017-07-31 17:54:20

it does use unique sounds like that. I mean, when your sim is cooking, he's not only visually on the screen stirring a pot on the stove, but you can hear the tinkle of the spoon as he does it. If he puts something in the microwave, you hear it run and see the light come on. The dishwasher makes sound. If you tell your sim to brush his or her teeth, you hear that. There are different footsteps for different floor surfaces, but yeah, I mean, its very good, in a mainstream sense, but doesn't provide the same type of feel that we have in audio games.

I mean, other than listing cases, you hear what you expect to hear, when you have your sim take the trash out ,you hear the bag coming out of the trash can, and the metallic one on the front walk near the street, you'll hear them open the lid of it, put the bag down inside, and close the lid, same thing with checking your mail. The sounds are represented pretty wel.

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2017-07-31 21:33:09

Hi,hem, interesting topic, I have figured it now, don't know where I did have my virtual eyes before. :)Well, I played Sims as a sighted player and never was interested in design. I had fun from achieving goals and exploring things. I remember very good how lucky I was when I taked to my family my first ghost, because his wife slept with him in elevator and she made ghost baby, don't know how to write it correctly in english. :DI wanted also to get death into my virtual family by similar way, hovever it was much harder and I lost my sight before I was able to finish it.But, back to reality, The sims can be of course made accessible, hovever there are many things to do. I have doubts devs will ever do it, but I will try to describe what I think is needed to do.Hmm, don't know where to start, wtf? Okay, try from the beginning of game.Designing your sims (sim is one virtual man / woman, I don't know if it is normal in english, but I will use it.)Here would be good, if game get some basic describing ability. By it I mean description of clothes, add-ons but also character you are currently working on, for example: