So Microsot recently announced Windows 10 Sba system designed for educators that MS claims is more secure, faster and more stable.

Sounds good, right? Well....here's the big, big problem.

Every. Single. Thing. is locked down. You can only install things from the MS app store.. Unless....of course you pony up $50 or you're an educator which means oh hey, free upgrade....

Here, I'll let BaarnaclesNerd on Youtube explain it better than I can. This stuff just boils my blood because or somebody like me, if I buy a Win 10 S laptop, an ARM architecture, I am forced to use Narrator, I cannot, on a brand new machine, install NVDA or Jaws, I cannot install or use a Braille display, I cannot even install an easier to use desktop....or I cannot even go and customize jack on the system, because MS has an idea that their new system will be faster, it will be more secure and lighter. And a a whole lot less accessible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlWwIBwExaI

Am I the only one both nervous and highly angry at MS for this move of locking everything down with the new system, then saying 'Oh you can install Adobe but it'll cost you $50 plus the cost of the software plus you owe us more money'.

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Yes this sucks, I wonder if you could just wipe the drive and install regular windows 10?

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Not sure on that one but IIRC I read somewhere you can't install an OS on an ARM machine so essntially, you are screwed over. unless you pay the $50 MS wants to let you go and install third party apps on that machine. Oh and, the best bit? As Barnacles said....you get another machine, you have to pay ANOTHER $50, then buy or install the software you want.

It sucks, oh and you are stuck with Narrator and Edge too. I get this is for educators who want to 'lock down a system to stop kids getting to inappropriate material' but....Barancles said it in the video several freaking times. The options are already there to lock down a system. Hell on WinXP I can do the exact same things as on Win10 S. And the worst bit is they are being deceptive about their marketing and forcing you into using MS products.

So in short, if you buy a Win 10 S laptop and you don't pay the upgrade cost, you're stuck. You can't for instance use any games or stuff from this site or forum, you can't install any other screenreaders at all, or acccesibility tools, you can't even put another OS on to dual boot into Linux orr OS X.

Frankly, MS are getting as bad as Apple when it comes to a closed off system now. It is horrifically bad, and IMO it'll only get worse really.

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Bad bad bad!
sad
I wanted to buy a win 10 laptop.
And now, can we use the normal windows 10?

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Well you can run portable apps on it.
Yes everything is locked down.
But its worth noting that you would probably only see such systems in a school environment or university.
For us blind people we would have to buy the upgrade to pro.
The system is designed like this.
1.  a school not an indevidual must have an pro licence of win10.
They then need to install the windows s app on their device.
Then they select what is blocked etc, etc and put it on a 1gb or greater flash drive.
This is then flashed to the system in question.
So its unlikely you would get an s laptop if you were a student yourself unless it was customised for a spaciffic reason.
To even get this thing for yourself you must be a school with credentials to say such, and a ms account and a school network and a coppy of pro and the required drive for the packages.
In fact most configuration programs are disabled, you can only configure it on a win10 pro box or a server, so I doubt a student would be able to rock into a computer shop and buy a coppy of s if they were not a school
If you were a school and get a school laptop then it would be restricted.
If you did need nvda installed or something or jaws or whatever its possible your teacher/ lecturer could customise the package for you and allow it just like the admin of a network.
If it was your own unit, you then could upgrade.
Ofcause if like me you entered a opperating systems clase like I did, part of the cost was the heavily subsidised 50 buck hard drive to install things on after which the thing was yours.
So I'd imagine if you got your laptop as part of unding for yourself and it was yours and you got it customised for school that you would have already payed the money up front for conversion.
Its worth noting that its more than likely the registered unit while portable would eventually become an alegal coppy if away from the school network for to long and such like that.
Its almost like win home.
However there is no problem with you running say portable apps on it if drives are allowed.
Do you guys realise how rampant viruses and such are round universities now things can be locked to a spaciffic set of instructions and thats good.
Again I doubt you would be buying an s laptop for yourself its not designed for that.
The only reason you would probably do it was if you didn't want the complexities of making the big leap at windows and had another something however as it stands you can't rock in and buy one.

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Doesn't windows 10 S run on X86 processors? or is there an ARM and X86 version?
ANd yes, you can install other operating systems onto arm based systems, but not regular windows, at least not yet, but that might change with x86 emulation in update redstone3, nvda on an arm processor would be awsome indeed...

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Also under the raydar I think, is the fact that 16188 and above, Windows 10S is default for unlisenced machines. No installing aftermarket drivers on your Apple Bootcamp, but yes: It's as locked down as you can get, no cmd/powershell...

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Well, I don't believe this. Don't think Microsoft will do that, otherwise Windows won't be used by many people.

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@5: The Surface RT was sold to general consumers and...flopped massively as Barancles said, and given he worked at MS during that time he had access to all the info on it. He's got a good track record about figuring how Microsoft operate given he worked there for 12 years so I personally believe him, and I have seen adverts come up for Surface 10 S laptops online that specifically do not mention educators. Plus, he says you either pay the $50 fee OR educators get it free.

@6:IShow me a source where it states ARM can natively run X86x64 software as I'm not sure it natively can do so without emulation/trickery. Yes, you can install it NOW but I have the feeling MS will lock this down further so you can't install another OS on a Win10 S machine and it wouldn't surprise mem they want to lock you into their ecosystem, much like Apple does or Android (though Android at least allows you to use older versions if you like)
£
@7: Wait, what? I wasn't aware of that, so if my key on my laptop expires I'm screwed if I got a Windows machine with an expired key that I bought online thinking it was Win10, and I find out it's Win 10 S?

@8 It's happening, they announced it which is why I made the topic to express m dislike for this OS and idea that you HAVE to use MS products and HAVE to use Bing, and given Win10's privacy  issues....it's definitely worrying they have the ability to track EVERYTHING you do. Don't believe me. They published a laundry list of all the data they collected  and it's extremely in depth. They even, as Baranacles said in the video, have stuff that's not directly related to windows.

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Its only starting from school and universities.
They want to get alot people on to their system and then lock everything!
I am really happy that I have escaped to Linux...

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11 (edited by serrebi 2017-05-07 19:30:33)

10S is not arm only! They rebranded x86 laptops. Don't shoot me for caring about this, blind people should just avoid windows 10S machines unless they buy them during the free upgrade period for said machines.
the reason I brought this up myself is because I have a Macbook air where I reinstalled windows from an unofficial 16188ISO, and got 10S on only that mac  I could not register for a reason beyond my comprehension. My other machine I used the iso for an upgrade, and my win10pro license status on there did not change.
Forget about 3rd party screen readers, what about aftermarket drivers from Apple, or your laptop manufacturer? In this case I was stuck with no onboard audio or video. I of course could still do everything I needed to with a USB sound card, but all I learned was how much this is totally the OS in hell.
I'm guessing my issue with licensing windows comes from the SSD, or MOBO dying, but all onboard drivers work fine in CloudReady so, a much better purgatory OS for that machine.

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Sorry, but this is my opinion on the matter. I politely ask that a flame war not be started over this.
Now, I have been a Windows 10 user since the July 2015 launch. I do not think Microsoft is maliciously planning to lock down all consumers eventually. I think this release of a new OS is being blown farther out of proportion than it needs to be. I certainly believe that sellers will tempt consumers to buy the Windows 10S machine(hence its cheapness compared to others), but I don't believe that Windows 10S will be a monopoly in Windows. Microsoft has not forgotten about other users who wouldn't like that. I may be wrong, but for now, let's take things in stride, and see where they go.

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13 (edited by Chris 2017-05-08 07:16:59)

Windows 10S is only good for schools and people who don't really need third party software like my dad. He spends all his time playing solitaire and looking at different websites like www.ebay.com. The only complaint I have about this whole thing is that Microsoft is selling a $1000 laptop running Windows 10S. If I'm paying $1000, I sure as hell don't want a machine running a locked down copy of Windows. If it's a $100 or $150 machine that's fine, but why on Earth are they selling a laptop for $1000 and loading 10S on it?

For now, I'd say that blind people should avoid Windows 10S unless you need a computer for very basic tasks. Narrator is improving, but I don't think it's quite up to par with NVDA just yet. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Narrator went through another substantial improvement before the end of this year. Microsoft has done a complete 180 on their stance regarding accessibility. Finally, I just hope this isn't a repeat of Windows RT. Remember how that epically crashed and burned?

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Chris wrote:

Windows 10S is only good for schools and people who don't really need third party software like my dad. He spends all his time playing solitaire and looking at different websites like www.ebay.com. The only complaint I have about this whole thing is that Microsoft is selling a $1000 laptop running Windows 10S. If I'm paying $1000, I sure as hell don't want a machine running a locked down copy of Windows. If it's a $100 or $150 machine that's fine, but why on Earth are they selling a laptop for $1000 and loading 10S on it?

For now, I'd say that blind people should avoid Windows 10S unless you need a computer for very basic tasks. Narrator is improving, but I don't think it's quite up to par with NVDA just yet. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Narrator went through another substantial improvement before the end of this year. Microsoft has done a complete 180 on their stance regarding accessibility. Finally, I just hope this isn't a repeat of Windows RT. Remember how that epically crashed and burned?

Agreed in 6 months it will probably be good enough if you have to use it.

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Guys I have a win 10 pro pc and I can do just about everything on it? or is this only about school laptops because then I'm not sure about that. I do have a win10 laptop that is loaded down with junk I got it that way in the store.

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My worry is that MS will encourage Apple to do the same with macOS. I doubt they will, but you never know ...

The iPad, of course, is already locked down, and is basically, like 10S, a basket case. The primary advantage of iOS is simply the ecosystem of existing apps, but the OS is simply too locked down for practical computing anyway. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy it, but on my iPhone, and even there I'd love at least the control of macOS. After all, it's hardly swarming with malware, is it?

And as always, I object on principle to Win10's assault on user privacy. Now they want to charge to remove restrictions too? And they still won't take away the spyware? Pha! I'll keep the Mac, thanks.

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@12 really?

Barnacules is my favorite youtuber, he is legit, and comes from 15 years of Microsoft employment, many of those years being spent as a senior developer. He has written parts of windows, he has written automation tools that test windows for bugs and analyzes code. They laid him off with 180,000 other people just because, Microsoft. Now he speaks out that he is no longer under NDA, and no longer under a non-compete contract. He is telling us exactly what they're doing, and he's not happy with the direction Microsoft is taking. So yeah, this is legit, and it means bad things in the future if they keep on this road.

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