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AudioGames.net Forum → General Game Discussion → Fantastic news regarding Sony PS4 Text to Speech
Hello everyone,
Seemingly out of nowhere, Sony just updated the Text to Speech to support the Netflix and Amazon video apps!
Is this particularly groundbreaking? For Sony, I believe so, considering we hadn't scene much TTS updates in about half a year.
Now if we can get sudden updates like that to, say, the store app...
I was aware of the Netflix upgrade, but not the amazon video ap upgrade......they are crawling towards the right direction I will give them that much. I don't even think Microsoft narrator works with there Netflix ap
Yet to my knowledge you still can't access something as simple as the notifications screen... still that's cool I guess.
if in the future soni will update the text to speech functionality, will they include also TTS outside the US?
Hi.
Well, as good as this sounds, it still buggs me that sony still doesnt allow TTS usage out side the US.
Greetings Moritz.
This post will probably not be met with a lot of positive feedback but, I honestly thing that sony is only doing this to appease FCC regulators, instead of actually taking the time to make something workable for games. The reason I think so is that this feature seems to be focusing on parts to do with communication and TV access, not the whole UI. Add to that the fact this is only available in the US, on models specifically aimed for that market, which is exactly where these accessibility regulations exist and you get a pretty grim picture. I would of course love to be proven wrong, I want better game accessi bility as much as all of you, however observing this feature developing, or not developing over the past few years while Microsoft keeps piling more on-top of their commitment while Sony doesn't do a whole lot. Maybe the ydon't see a point, as in the mainstream market their console is doing really well, with a ton of exclusives. Maybe it's a cultural thing, I'm not sure how big Japanese companies treat accessibility in general. At least in Gaming Nintendo is putting as much effort as Sony, with the Switch only launching with a basic high-contrast feature. And since the Switch doesn't do Netflix, chat or web browsing, they didn't have to release any kind of text to speech for it either. And this is really sad if only 1 out of 3 big companies is actually making a conscious effort of targeting disabled gamers with high degrees of disability.
But all of this is pure speculation from things I read online. Obviously I haven't been at any of the big game Cons like AGC. Perhaps Sony did have a good presence there and actually discussed enhancing their system's accessibility in addition to their 3rd party studios adding all the typical color blind and def friendly features to games like Uncharted.
Hi.
At peter, you know, I actually thought about these things too. Maybe sony isnt doing that for disabled gamers sake, but just for reputation so they can say that they do something for disabled gamers.
I thought this too with the udden appearance from that EA Sports Madden accessibility account on twitter and on this forum.
While I would love to be prooven wrong on that fact, I can't get this feeling out of my head that something isnt right and that EA Sports just does this for a increase of reputation and marketing.
Do you really think that they would really care for such a small groop as the blind comunity? I know, this might seam unfare to the person if he really wants to help, but due to experiences in the past with these things, I am highly sceptical about that.
Greetings Moritz.
In regards to EA, that's different. In that case I do think there are people there that want to implement accessibility, or at least try to sell it to the higher ups. Game accessibility isn't regulated in any way, so EA wasn't obligated to ask someone to collect user feedback and start implementing changes, while the user interface of a console is partially required to be accessible for the same reason as all the different set top boxes like Roku's or Comcasts that recently got speech.
Hi.
I'm glad to hear that there has been made some improvements. But no excitement here until they release the TTS outside the US.
Do they care about blind people? Yes, but only in the US.
Do they listen to our feedback regarding to accessibility? No, not at all. Only if you're from the US.
Why do I still support the console? Because nothing beats the interfase which just works great in my opinion, and there are games which the XBox doesn't have. The Ps4 is faster when navigating the userinterfase, which is quite interesting.
this is my opinion also. I think sony are doing the bare minimum here, to insure they aren't in breech of regulations. Their lack of regard for countries outside the US is the biggest reason that leads me to believe this, as well as the way they've blocked the TTS. If your outside the US, they just don't care. More accurately, they don't have to care. There are no regulations that say they do have to care.
This has been what I've been saying for a while, but people have been telling me that for sure Sony actually does care. Not from the example I'm seeing... I enjoy what accessibility I do have, but this doesn't match their statement about wanting accessibility for everyone that they've mentioned a few times now. And I don't doubt there are people at Sony who do care, just as with Mirosoft and EA. Problem is, they aren't high up enough in the corporate structure to do anything about it... which sucks for us. But this is good, as far as it goes... shows that there's still possibility for improvement. I've simply learned to be much more cautious about my optomism regarding sony and ongoing accessibility improvements.
@pitermach, you're definitely right that part of it may be cultural. Ironically, Japan is one of the most accessible nations in the world... with many streetside vending machines that talk, braille signs at train stations and other places, audible pedestrian signals at most intersections, not to mention some of the most innovative things in assistve technology like the plextalk were originally Japanese products. In spite of this, though, accessibility being integrated into mainstream products is definitely a rarity there, and the overall attitude toward disability is much more exclusive than say, here in Canada, which is why the Sony HQ in Japan is probably dragging their feet with this.
Nope. I agree with SLJ on that front as well. I love the interface of the ps4... everything is neatly laid out, and it's smooth and responsive to navigate. I didn't have a good time with the xbox1 interface... I got used to it, but it took a while, and everything was buried layer within layer within layer. I also haven't played with the latest firmware, however. I've always liked the playstation interfaces better than the xbox ones, notably, because the interfaces don't wrap, and are very easy to understand and, in the days of the ps3, to memorize.
As to other regions, I'm guessing if those languages are supported, they will have their own voices. It's not so much that Sony has blocked access, but seeing as the fcc regulations are only relevant in the US, that is probably why only those models support tts.
this is my opinion also. I think sony are doing the bare minimum here, to insure they aren't in breech of regulations. Their lack of regard for countries outside the US is the biggest reason that leads me to believe this, as well as the way they've blocked the TTS. If your outside the US, they just don't care. More accurately, they don't have to care. There are no regulations that say they do have to care.
I'll have to find the link again but isn't the TTS a hardware thing and not a software thing or am I getting it conufsed with the PS3 when that was briefly backwards compatibl.
I'm agreeing with Simba and that other guy...IMO Sony ar only doing what they absolutely have to, by law, to avoid bad PR. If the US law called for full accessiblity and UK and Euopean laws (thanks Brexit...) called for different standards I have a feeling Sony would simply push out the bare minimum they could legally get away with. As for the EA thing, while devs may want change, they are not high up enough to affect real change, or to say to the other higher ups, 'Look, let's make this accessible but not market the shit out of it', EA has a history of..shall we say....interesting marketing tactics and I fully believe, having played EA games as far back as the early 90s on the 16 bit consoles....that they would market accessiblity as a big back of the box feature to tick off corporate boxes.
Something just seems extremely off about this to me, extremely, extremely bare bones and as if they are using it, again, as a tool to point at and say look, we are following your guidelines, now you can't come after us.
Is it right? No. But it's business, it may (and none of us have access to the costs) cost less to simply give accessibity lip service and get away with doing the bare minimum rather than go all in for what is, fankly, a tiny, tiny subset of gamers.
Side note: Whoever mentioned Roku and Sling boxes, thank you. I spent two hours earlier pretty much insisting the Roku had speech and was told it didn't. Now I can go explain exactly where to find said speech stuff.
the TTS is blocked using hardware identifiers unique to each ps4 SKU. It's not a location based thing, so you can't spoof your location to gain access. This means that within the lines of code that make up theTTS or the ps4's OS it's self there are checks being made as to what hardware your using. If it's non us hardware, the option for the tts is dummied out. That's the anoying thing. The code is probably sitting on the hardwrives of every ps4 user round the world, unable to be accessed by english speakers outside the US
Localization wise, this wouldn't take much effort at all, as the user interface has already been translated, and it's not like Text To Speech requires them to translate everything again. The Xbox is using custom-developed Microsoft voices, as Microsoft needed them for things like the rest of Windows and Cortana, so I guess you could argue that it would take Sony a lot of resources to develop their own text to speech technology, except I'm pretty sure from what I heard in the demo that they are just using the Vocalizer Ava voice. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to cheep out on a licensing deal with Nuance and only get the US voice. But if they wanted to add more languages, Nuance has over 30 which Apple is using for instance.
Fwiw, Sony isn't the only one doing this weird region locking thing. Roku which was brought up here before, also only has TTS in the US even though their players are also sold in the UK and a few other places. I really don't understand why all these companies are artificially locking out bits
of code that really wouldn't require any modifications to run, especially when we're talking about English speaking countries, with nearly identical accents like US and Canada even.
The sad thing is that Soni's been the laughingstock for drm, and rightfully so. Rootkit locked people out of their own damn cd's, and installed unsolicited software on the machine accessing the disks without consent. My point? They've got their shit together as far as drm is concerned. They feel like they want to lock users out of a particular subset of features, they have the knowhow to do it without hesitation. Which sucks for us, because the speech is only available to us folks in the US and nowhere else. The only way you'd be able to get tts in your unit, which would be an extreme last resort, is by scouting out a sighted person in the US and trading your console with there's. Yeah, that alone pretty much speaks for itself. There's international shipping to deal with as well, and Paypal doesn't work the same way in all parts of the world. As for why region lock is implemented, pretty much everyone nailed it when they said fcc regulations. That's all it is. At the time of tts's debut, only the chat was accessible. Now Amazon and Netflix are accessible, but I wouldn't call this fantastic news at all, because the only reason they're accessible is because they are covered under the fcc regulations. This is as bare minimum as it gets, folks. Yes, they are using Vocalizer Ava. Should they? Well, as great as that voice is, let's take licensing out of the equation and just use espeak. I'm not kidding. I think dealing with Espeak isn't much to ask of us when it comes to using the accessibility we've practically waited, fought long and hard for. Plus, say what you will, but there is nothing wrong with espeak in my opinion. The reason why I say espeak, is it takes licensing out of the equation, and that removes Soni's excuse to lock the tts. They can simply include all languages of espeak into the firmware. That friggin simple. As for EA I have to disagree with a lot of the skepticism I'm seeing regarding them. Just think for a second. In a scenario where they didn't care about accessibility, would they be on the audio games forum! of all places? Doubt it. Granted some people told our contact in EA about the audio games forum, she is actively answering questions and looking at the thread. This is no joke. If features are held up, it's probably a result of so-called corporate/publisher interest and priority. Low incidence=low priority, sadly.
o and if you guys haven't noticed, on the ps4 instead of tts saying mortal kombat x, it says mortal kombat 10, and in some areas instead of it saying "text to speech unavailable here" it will just say nothing at all. I guess this is another minor step in the right direction lmaoooo
I know Karen from EA personally, the scepticism here is all misplaced. These are her initiatives that she is following due to her passion for accessibility, and has managed to get wider backing for. She is not a pawn in some cynical plot by marketers.
I know from my own experience that internal advocacy within a publisher can be a tough gig. So I'm sure your support and appreciation would be helpful.
More info:
I'm very grateful for Karen's initiative, even though I'm not all that into sports games. It shows that there are indeed people who care... and I agree that at least in the case of EA, all the skepticism is misplaced. Sony, however, is a whole different matter.
Hi.
The Ps4 consoles which are soled in the US have different hardware than the others which are soled world wide. When the firmware is installed or updated, it detects the hardware, and activates the needed parts of the software, depending on your hardware.
Regarding to what voices which are used in the different countries, well, that's different. If the company supports the language, they might have put a voice on the system which speaks that language. If not, the main US or UK voice is just used, and then it's reading the interface in the language you have chosen. You can then switch to the english language and use the speech like all other people. That's what I'm doing on my XBox and on other products as well which don't have a danish speech. Just use the UK or the US voices.
So, in other words, Sony have no reason to block us from using the TTS function. I mean, what's the point of spending time on making the screenreader, and then block the whole world, accept for the Americans from using it? I think some people are right when saying that Sony is only doing this because of the American law. Why make this available only in the US? Because that's the only country where you have the accessibility law. So let's block all other people world wide from using the function, and people can't complain about it, because there is no law for accessibility in other countries.
Regarding to why I like the Ps4 interface better than the XBox: That's simple. Most menus don't wrap, and I can navigate the menus I remember without speech. I find the interface difficult to navigate on the XBox, even with speech. If there were no speech, I would have given up using it.
I see nothing to get excited about here.
I think soni will never be interested to improve accessibility to the PS4.
if the TTS only supports the amazon video or netflix, that means if soni did improve TTS, it will only improve it for that app or other TV or video apps. but hopefully in the future, soni will improve more accessibility and expand the use of the TTS outside the US and supports all hardware models.
And just for the record, the only reason why those apps in particular got accessibility is because they are part of the video and communication requirements covered by the Fcc.
I think soni will never be interested to improve accessibility to the PS4.
if the TTS only supports the amazon video or netflix, that means if soni did improve TTS, it will only improve it for that app or other TV or video apps. but hopefully in the future, soni will improve more accessibility and expand the use of the TTS outside the US and supports all hardware models.
Until the US lawmakers force them to, or the UK or Aussie or Chinese or whoever else force them to act that is.
Sidenote, is the TTS avaiable in Canadian PS4s or not, they have different standards there, so I'm not sure if the TTS is blocked there or not.
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