2017-03-10 01:53:13 (edited by Caccio72 2017-03-10 02:03:55)

YEEEAAAHHHHHH, FINAL SUCCESS!!!

No more speed-hack alerts, that admin guy was right, we must use our screen-readers instead of the SAPI voice, that's all!!!
True, playing STW with a screen-reader, especially one like NVDA sucks a bit, meaning a bit ruins/spoils the "feeling" of game-realism, but it's still much better than being kicked out by almost every longer message-typing, or option-cycling...

So, since the problem got solved...this way...this forum-topic can be closed!

(before I repeat the last question of my previous post, especially the second part of it, directed to STW-game admins)

2017-03-10 03:11:47

Huh. SAPI was the issue for you? Weird.

2017-03-10 04:03:52

It makes sense to play with your screen reader though, you get speech instantly, without that god aweful lag. The only advantage to using Sapi is the fact that pressing keys won't interrupt it, which in STW is less of an issue than in RS. But its still your choice to make, if Sam wants to offer the choice to use Sapi, he should make sure its working as intendeded. Don't expect this to be fixed any time soon, or if ever.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
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2017-03-10 04:41:11

Honestly, I think Sam should just remove speed hacking altogether. It doesn't do any good in actually stopping speed hacks, and arrays false positives more than it does true ones. So I don't actually see the point of it's implementation. If it actually worked, then I wouldn't lament about it, nor would I request it's eradication; however, as displayed by not only this thread, but by many other people, Sam's implementation of speed hack detection's foibles' eclipse it's strong points.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2017-03-10 06:44:10 (edited by Caccio72 2017-03-10 07:37:58)

ironcross32 wrote:

It makes sense to play with your screen reader though, you get speech instantly, without that god aweful lag. The only advantage to using Sapi is the fact that pressing keys won't interrupt it, which in STW is less of an issue than in RS. But its still your choice to make, if Sam wants to offer the choice to use Sapi, he should make sure its working as intendeded. Don't expect this to be fixed any time soon, or if ever.

Actually if I put NVDA to "sleeping mode", keys are not spelled  when typing, while every game-command, sound, and chat works just fine. (characters are spoken only during typing chat-messages)
Map-zone changes are even announced only in the "sleeping" NVDA-mode, while totally ignored in the "nornal" one, LOL!

It's just that I feel sorry for that so smooth female SAPI-voice...

Edit:
As for Red Spot, I just tried that game out, and SAPI causes no problems there. (at least I haven't noticed anyso far)

2017-03-10 08:31:49

@Caccio72, I'm not evuen sure why you used SAPI all this time. If you go to the nvda settings, then to sinthisisers, you should be able to choose a sapi 5 voice, too.

Yes, I definitely left the forum. Mhm. Why would you have any doubt?
Code 7 tips: https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/4010 … or-code-7/
Don't forget to be awesome!

2017-03-10 08:37:28

Hi.
I'm so glad to hear that you found the solution to the issue. However, it's weird if it's sapi which causes the issue.
@Mayana: Choosing sapi in the NVDA settings makes sapi speak through NVDA and not directly using sapi.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
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2017-03-10 14:55:51

Wow, so why does Sam allows sapi5 usage then?

2017-03-10 15:48:24

Because voices like espeak don't have issues, probably.
Never even thought about sapi, I never use it simply because I find nvda with espeak has less lag and is understandable at higher speeds without issues.

Roel
golfing in the kitchen

2017-03-10 17:32:38

So didn't read everything here, but let me state that I DO NOT encourage, support, or otherwise give anyone the idea of formatting there system to fix a speedhack alert. I don't know who came up with that, but it doesn't help. This, however, is a simple solution that may help. There are 2 actually. 1. Try opening task manager when stw is running. Go down to the stw.exe process and press the context menu key (applications or shift+f10) and go down to change priority. In that menu click real time. 2. Open control panel and go to power options. Find the list ware you can select a power plan. It gets a bit tricky here at least with NVDA, but basically see if you can manage to select high performance. Click show additional plans if you don't see it. It will make your computer work better in general. HOWEVER, if it uses battery power a lot, it will use more battery power rather than conserving it with the result of lower performance. I will read the wrest of this topic at some point haha, just past it and read the first couple of posts for now. Hope that helps though, and please know that I never once said, or indirectly said, that formatting the hard drive for my game or installing windows for my game was something I even kind of supported. Those are other peoples words, not mine.

I am a web designer, and a game developer. If you wish see me at http://www.samtupy.com

2017-03-10 17:37:45

@SLJ, I know, that was exactly what I ment. If someone likes a SAPI voice and wants to use it though, they can still just use it with NVDA, instead of using SAPI directly with STW. Solves boath the speedhack and the voice issue.

Yes, I definitely left the forum. Mhm. Why would you have any doubt?
Code 7 tips: https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/4010 … or-code-7/
Don't forget to be awesome!

2017-03-10 19:54:23

@Sam_Tupy, we determined that it is neither the computer, the computer's hardware, nor the power plan that was the issue. We also determined that it was SAPI, so real time priority won't work. I also have determined, through this thread and others, that this speed hack detection should be entirely removed.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2017-03-10 21:10:02 (edited by Caccio72 2017-03-10 21:13:38)

Thanx for reminding me to this solution Maryana, I just changed to SAPI in the NVDA-settings while writing this post, and it is lagging quite badly by typing, meaning it spells the typed characters too slow!
(this was happening in the STW-game too, but I assumed it to be a game-related issue)

So it would definitely cause speed-hack alerts in the STW-game again! (if I would try it out that is)

Strangely, it reads written text quite fast, I even had to decrease its speed a bit, but is so sluggish while typing...so the problem is obviously related to my SAPI settings in NVDA, just that I have no idea in which way???

So the summary of my SAPI-related problem:
Reading text is fast, but lags while typing, any ideas why???

2017-03-10 22:21:50

The lag you are describing is an issue inherent with SAPI, though I think some voices do it more than others, but I've never found a very responsive SAPI voice. Even the SAPI Eloquence I tried wasn't as responsive as screen reader drivers, though it was certainly better than the default Windows voices. SO in short there's nothing you can do about it.
Why a speedhack would be triggered by SAPI being used in the game alone is beyond me. From my limited understanding of BGT, all it does is send text to SAPI. I didn't think this would cause issues, unless it's stalling and waiting for a return of some sort, which it very well could be. I agree with Ethin that this needs removed if not seriously revised/reconsidered. It would be fine if the speedhack alerts were triggered by actual speedhacs and cheating attempts, but it's been proven that they are not. No innocent person wants to configure their pcs to avoid speedhack detection which they would never set off deliberately. Such speedhack detection is likely only needed to deal with a handful of people who would try to cheat, and it should be affecting them, and only them.
Yes, people may make a habit of setting things to realtime priority, using a high performance power plan, using their screen reader as speech output for everything, etc. If those optimizations are actually needed to make the game run without maxing allocated system resources, that is one thing.  But if a preventative measure such as speedhack detection was built on that configuration and basically needs it to work reliably, that is quite another. These sorts of preventative measures need to be tested under numerous reasonable (not assumed) configurations to ensure they actually do their job effectively. That kind of testing makes any aspect of a program more stable and is a big part of what distinguishes stable software from buggy software. I'm not saying that STW hasn't been tested well enough, but I frankly find the current state of this situation borderline unacceptable. Now that we know the speedhack detection is giving innocent players problems, I think it is, at the very least, imperative that a section in the manual be written to advise these players if nothing else. It wouldn't hurt.

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
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2017-03-10 23:28:23 (edited by Caccio72 2017-03-11 17:12:10)

LOL, your last sentence is the very same as my point, STW-admins should really put in a warning-note somewhere in the game, that "using SAPI-voice may cause lags and speed-hack alerts, and I consider missing to do so for a severe omission, causing serious headache and troubles to (mostly) innocent players"
How else is one supposed, or expected to realize, or discover that solution?
Just observe my example: I had to start a forum-thread regarding the matter here, gathered dozens of further complaints of people sharing that same problem, then after 5 days of wasted time with hopeless and futile discussion over 3 pages, an STW-admin finally appears, revealing the true reason of the whole issue,  instead of just noting it somewhere inside the game, in its manual, or at least in its "readme" file!

I ask You, does it have to function this way???

(sorry for stating this so straight-and-open, but that's the kind of person I am in my real life, like it or not)

As for my own case with SAPI, it's no wonder I haven't noticed its lagging by now, since my mother-tongue is hungarian, along with my Windows operative-system, I am generally using the hungarian language setting in NVDA, (it recognizes english, and changes to it when reading anyway), and since SAPI features only english language in it, I select it only while playing audio-based games, with the sole aim to improve their feeling of realism.

2017-03-11 00:06:57

This is the problem with Sam's games that I have, and I have deleted both STW and Rs from my system because these types of things never get resolved, basically mediocrity flourishes. He is talented, there is no question of that, but puts forth a minimal effort once the game is out. Yes there are updates, yes there are fixes, but some long standing issues don't get corrected.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2017-03-11 18:15:54 (edited by Caccio72 2017-03-11 18:35:14)

"Great", now I have another quite frustrating issue with the STW game:
The totally unfounded and unfair character-deletions that is!
While the "process" itself is called "spam-character cleaning" in the game, obviously in many cases totally clean, valid, "innocent" characters get targeted by it as well!

As our STW-admin friend told us here, it is allowed, and even recommended to create, and store more characters in the game.
Just to make sure, I asked the active, regular STW player-group in the game, and they also confirmed, that they all created, maintain, and use more than one character, some of them have even over 4-5 of them. (normally by playing with only 1 at a time)
Strangely, the "reserve" characters of their majority don't  get deleted during those "spam-character cleaning" processes, while my created "secondary" character, meaning the one I initially plan to preserve for PvP, and which is usually not selected and active at that verey moment, still often becomes an innocent victim of those "cleanings". (even after solving the speed-hack issue the way I recently announced in this forum-thread)

So now I wonder why this keeps happening to me, and what's the way to guard against it:
)since after making some more significant advances with our game-characters, this issue becomes extremely annoying and frustrating)

2017-03-11 19:21:07

Make sure the character name is over 4 characters in length and that the character has more than the default inventory. This should hopefully solve the issue. Also, I do not have a crystal ball. People say they get speedhack alerts and I know about that but not all the time how. I will attempt fixing it, but speed hack code is a very very unreliable thing. Trust me, if I removed it, you would all be begging for it back. Things used to be really really bad before I added that code.

I am a web designer, and a game developer. If you wish see me at http://www.samtupy.com

2017-03-11 20:01:26

@Sam_Tupy, the problem with your speed hack code is that it is too unreliable. Before you implement something that is unstable as speed hack detection, you should learn the concepts of test-driven development. Test-driven development (TDD) is a software development process that relies on the repetition of a very short development cycle: requirements are turned into very specific test cases, then the software is improved to pass the new tests, only. This is opposed to software development that allows software to be added that is not proven to meet requirements. So, in summary, TDD is a development cycle where literally every function you write and that returns a value and that is not main is tested rigorously to ensure things like this don't happen. Sam, if your not going to be willing to actually fix the issues your players raise here, your going to start losing them. Stop lurking and loitering and start fixing!

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2017-03-12 04:00:45 (edited by Caccio72 2017-03-12 04:15:27)

Look Mr Sam, if You ask me, my personal case is totally irrelevant, after all I finally did manage to solve my problem at the end.
What still bothers, actually irritates me is the severe omission of STW-developers, described in my post number 65...so please read, or re-read it!
This forum thread is not about me only anymore, but about all those other STW-players who experience the same issue as I did, very likely due the same reason, and without even being aware of that reason, merely because the game-developer(s) missed to inform them of it in a proper way!

Ok, I agree that SAPI-voice is probably not the only setting which causes, or can cause speed-hack alerts, and that are surely some other settings, elements, and actions which can, or will trigger them as well, but by simply noting somhere in the game, or at least in its "readme" file, that "using SAPI may trigger speed-hack alerts", with minimal efforts, You developer-guys could spare many days, or even weeks of headache and troubles to, I am sure, quite significant number of potential, and even regular STW-players!

No hard feelings though, STW is generally an outstanding game, my sincere CONGRATULATIONS for it!
(You can read about my general opinion of the game in my starting, initial post of this forum-topic)

As for Your suggestion of getting some items beyond the starting ones, (in order to avoid "spam-character" deletion), it sounds pretty logical and likely to work, so I already started testing it, MANY THANKS!!!
I guess I will find out the result soon enough anyway, LOL!!!

2017-03-12 08:16:57

Heh. I stopped playing for a while, attempted to connect to see if anything new happened, and found my character gone for seemingly no reason. It had an inventory full of things and the name is more than four characters, so no idea what happened there. Server move maybe.

2017-03-12 22:13:48 (edited by Caccio72 2017-03-12 22:22:06)

Draq wrote:

Heh. I stopped playing for a while, attempted to connect to see if anything new happened, and found my character gone for seemingly no reason. It had an inventory full of things and the name is more than four characters, so no idea what happened there. Server move maybe.

Sam's suggestion seems to work fine for me, my second character, who only has some sand beyond the initial itms, is still "in the game" after 2 days, despite actively playing with my primary one all the time, just logged in with that 2nd one to check if it still exists.

I have no idea about the STW-server's level of sensitivity, but I will still advise you to use new names and passwords for yourfresh-created characters, meaning different from the already deleted and lost ones.
I am using that same additional measure of "precausion", just to make sure. (maybe it won't help, but will certainly not harm either)

2017-03-27 16:35:21

First time poster, and I wanted to offer my perspective.

I recently decided to get back into audio gaming. I'm a Linux software developer on a reasonably modern laptop (I7, 8GB RAM, SSD, etc.) and thought I'd give this game a shot in my performant Windows VM. It has no trouble with any other audio titles.

I get this speedhack detected nonsense before the main menu even appears. I've tried on multiple internet connections, no change.

I'll also note that the voice that speaks this message is distorted, hard to understand, and is preceded by a very loud, shrill noise. It's almost as if the game is trying to punish me for taking the time to download it. The only reason I knew what the hell was happening was that I looked in the changelog to find something that sounded somewhat like what the horrible distorted voice told me.

Anyhow, it's a free game, so consider this as feedback rather than a complaint. I'll be uninstalling it and moving onto other titles. If making a shrill noise, speaking a distorted message, and crashing is any indication of what to expect, I don't know if I'm missing much, and I have other things to do than to debug my otherwise functional system to account for this. It just seems odd to ship such utterly broken code, then disregard folks who say that it isn't accomplishing its goal, I'd be fired if I did that...

Best of luck to those who, like me, googled for a solution and found this thread.

2017-03-28 09:34:31

I didn't read all the posts yet, but are you using sapi as the default output voice? More often then not, that's the cause of false positives. For the "say option" try to locate a non microsoft voice, and see if that fixes things.

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2017-03-28 09:58:39

All right, me is finally through the threat.
Speedhack prevention: use a lightweight sapi voice [remember that sapi came along around the time xp came out, and i'm not sure on how well it got maintained over the years]. There's a reason why screenreaders tryed to find sollutions for direct drivers instead of falling back on sapi technology.
Character deletion: first, as Sam said, make sure you have more than what you start with as soon as possible. 2nd: be active, / online regularly, or 3rd: once you've played enough and decide you like the game enough, consider buying a premium account. Those will keep you in the character database.

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