@SirBadger: I suggest that Mr Spaghetti and Ms Unicorn could meet over some of Russell's tea to argue further about WHO came before whom.

The below post only serves to state my opinion, so please don't take it as a personal attack on any of you.

This has turned into yet another debate destined to go nowhere. I believe that it is not our purpose as human beings to contemplate our existence or question who or what controls the world we live in. No other species we are aware of does, why should we be so selfish and assume that is our job? Nevertheless, we have. I'll admit as a fellow human being, I am naturally curious about the very things I have claimed it is not my business to think about. However I've also often thought about how vast and complicated the universe is, and have realized that very few things are so concrete to be traced back to indisputable roots. This is because humans have intelligence, not knowledge. The intelligence to formulate ideas, to synthesize knowledge based on X, Y and Z. Not the mystical ability to read things in a totally unbiased, fair and objective way.

The Bible was written by humans. Language was created by humans. Ideas about religions have been conceived by humans. I know enough about human history to know that humans are imperfect creatures. That is probably the most perfect way to put human nature. It is brimming with imperfections. Nothing is ever a hundred percent perfect. Technology has gotten us much closer to a perfection of sorts but it was created by humans.

If any ideology makes the most sense to me, it is science. At least science *tries* to justify its findings as well as it is able, and is willing to admit to not having answers or a need to be reevaluated. Science is founded on our need as humans to prove truths and learn. It perhaps takes advantage of a human greediness. But it was made with the assumption that humans are meant to know the world they live in by studying it like the intelligent beings we are. Science is a far cry from big expensive experiments. If I do thing X, what will Y do? That's a scientific question and is why we know the things we know today. Like any ideology it can be taken to extremes. The whole idea of modern science is a bold and independent move by our kind. It is arrogant, and perhaps foolishly ambitious. But many humans are all of those things. As far as I'm concerned science has paid itself off a thousand times over, despite its superficial nature when we consider how many rudimentary questions of creation and life that science has yet to explain beyond theory. Modern science and humans are still very young things.

Getting back to the original topic, my biggest concern dealing with gay or trans people is the fact that as a society, we are barely prepared to get comfy with these new ways of life. I couldn't care a whole lot about what Gods think, since nobody actually seems to know right now. I'm more worried for the associates of gay people. Or even better, children adopted by gay couples. They're surely in for a hard societal life. But even that is superficial. I am not opposed to gay couples adopting children as much as perhaps I should be... And I have become more open and fascinated about what it might be like to be gay, though I try not to show that since societally that is impolite. I am more willing than ever now to hear a gay, trans, etc. story before I judge them. I have issues of my own which are almost as difficult to deal with as the ones discussed here, and if there is enough interest I may detail them to some degree, but for now that is not important. But having experiences like that where you don't know if anyone will truly accept you with an open heart really does open oneself up. I think it is sad that many gays, trans, etc. aren't even given a chance at acceptance by the majority of people, or even themselves. For what? The sake of a displeased God? When God may have created you that way in the first place for a purpose? I'm telling you, humans aren't meant for that kind of reasoning, which is why I avoid it, and I'm fairly certain that's why we can't make our minds up in this topic about what God actually wants and cares about.

I'm not trying to say that science is the answer and that religion is a hokes. But I am, quite simply, fed up with the state of religious discussion. It's sounding vaguely like political debates. This world is tough for me to live in because I can't make heads or tails of half the things I either am expected to know about, or am exposed to regularly which nobody can seem to figure out. If someone who is able to understand, not judge, a lack of religious faith, could they tell me why all this debating and division is worth it? What is actually important here?
Thanks.

The only one on the religious side of this debate who makes any sense is Nocturnus, the rest of you are closeminded and act like fanatics.

@rockyWaters: yay, good job on reminding me that I have to try your stuff! hahaha just kidding, gotta give a try to that planets thing.
@Ironcross: close minded? fanatic? yes, I'm one of them, and I'm proud to say it. I'm a Jesus fanatic, those titles result quite inoffensive and nice for me, because indeed that's what I am.

@exodus That's exactly how I feel. That was tried on me as a kid and it failed. I just never understood the purpose of it. I guess what I am trying to impart on the world is a sense of reality and reason. Be a healthy skeptic. Stop being ignorant of the flaws that come with personal interpretation. I almost feel sorry for people who won't acknowledge that their interpretation is one among many, who refuse to acknowledge the real validity of qualms raised about their reasoning.

I know I'm ignorant of a lot of things, but I am humbled by that. That is my bliss, and it gives me the chance to sit back and reflect on the fact that I have a more concentrated place in this world, and it is not trying to decipher the stars. IF there is a God out there, and I do have reasons to believe there is, I know he has a purpose for me and has chosen to remain illusive. Rather than try to find him, I will just live the way I know best and if he decides to show, he will do so. IF he doesn't exist or never does show, no plans changed.

"God's word unstrructs us to teach our kids in God's way, to teach them the truth; " In otherwords, Get them while they are young and impressionable. Program them early and they'll never question anything. Also, children don't automagically know there is a god they're too busy thinking about... kid stuff. Maybe if my parents had been at me from day one, drumming god into my head I'd have turned out differently but they understood, rightly that that kind of thing was up to me. I was not born a believer, I was not born a sinner. Some person may have written this down in a book somewhere, but they did not know me and there for can't apply their book to me or any other child in fact.

at the age of 16 years old you would have had the chance to grow and figure out what you want from life. You made your choices... you yourself made those choices knowing fully that this was what you wanted to do. Getting to a child who's 3, 4 or 5 years old, still figuring out how the basics of the world function and making that choice for them buy submerging them into a religion is what I disaggree with.

Well, the thing is, God tells us to teach our children his way, his word and his law, and to establish our families in Christian principals. If they make a choice different than that when they grow up, then its all up to them, they become responsible for what they've heard and we have already planted the seed of the gospel in their hearts.

the liberty for captives,  is in Jesus Christ, alone

@Ironcross: I'm not gonna answer all things you've said, but the most important ones here:  oh no no no no no! You can't talk about happyness, if you do not have God in your life, and indeed without him in my life, I'd be miserable. Plus, I think I was clear enough when I said I've made my decision, and my decision is to follow Christ. Nothing's moving me from that, and do you know why my faith doesn't gets shaky? simply because I know who I  believed in. Come onn, get upset, say whatever you'd like to say, call people like me brainwashed and fanatics and lunatics, but there's hope, salvation and life in CHrist, and in him alone

@AlexN94: I'm absolutely shocked, how dare you reject the one true god. I prey that you one day smell the pasta and accept it in all it's delicious glory, for all unicorn worshiping infidels will surely be boiled in a pot while restrained by noodles for all eternity.
BTW with current technology I feel like we would actually be able to determine weather russell's teapot exists. Now we just need a foundation to provide funding for scientists who attempt to discover it's existence. It's such an important question I'm actually shocked that all the satellites, telescopes etc aren't being used towards that end, but I suppose that there are those who might find the meaningless search for exoplanets or the pointless attempts to unravel the history of the universe more important.

@Zakc93: Of course the teapot exists, how could you even doubt that? For is it not true that the clouds in the sky are the steam of this godly brew? May the holy IPU bless you with all her invisible pinkness, and your pasta too of course, there is room enough for all of us.
May your journeys to the beer volcano be refreshing and plentiful.