2017-02-11 22:06:02

Hey guys,

This forum was super helpful when I was making my app Your Story accessible a while back and now I'm thinking about using the technology from an app I released recently called Rifter (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/rifter/ … 68516?mt=8) to improve the experience of navigating for the blind in real life.

The way Rifter works is it allows people to leave a short audio clip pinned to where ever they are in real life. When people walk through that rift, they hear the clip. The idea being that people can share information about the stuff immediately around them. My original intention was it was a cool way for people to share local knowledge with each other without being invasive, but I also think there are some neat implications for the blind.

Right now the accuracy is something like 30 feet or so, so it couldn't alert you to anything like

2017-02-12 04:17:30

As a tall person I often hit my head on tree branches close calls with signs that kind of thing. Being able to avoid things at head level would be great.

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2017-02-12 14:56:38

Yeah, the audio grafiti thing sounds cool. I'm sure it will get horribly abused within 5 minutes and require constant vigilance to prevent people from being insulted when they pass wal-mart, but when I saw the thread title my first thought was "Signs, definitely."

Have you heard of the Orcam? The idea is that it tries to recognize objects, but you have to record what the objects are. If this could be integrated with the cloud, so that it can recognize things that other people have labeled, that'd be neat. (Also if it wasn't $3k for a piece of equipment that would be much better integrated with other devices or software, such as the vOICe.) The result would be kinda like TapTapSee, but it could recognize whatever you're looking at on the fly because it uses a tiny earpiece camera.

Someone needs to toss a few million into all these disparate technologies and license them all into a single suite for existing platforms. You'd still have the option to use them individually, of course, but as it stands I think the vOICe is the only one that is trying to do multiple things at once, and they've been around since, what, 1998?
Having all of these things together would be much better than having to work out what you do and don't need and switch between them (which is often going to be a slow and clunky process). Like, if I could combine your app with whatever has surpassed Blindsquare, a cloud-based Orcam, TapTapSee, and the vOICe (or a more object-oriented color-based image-to-sound program, like Iodimony but better), that'd cover a ton of stuff right there. I mean, information overload and drowning out important external sounds would be an issue to address (if I'm crossing a street I'll probably want to mute everything, for example--I would not trust any app or gadget I am currently aware of or imagining as more than a distraction in that situation). But I think I'd use TapTapSee more if I didn't have to go through the process of switching and opening apps and positioning the camera and finding the lighting... so it's mostly good for identifying money, and in spite of all those testimonials I have not gotten it to identify many cans or bottles with more than color. I'm not spending $3k for an Orcam if I can get the vOICe to do most of the work for the price of an ordinary headcam, but if I can get the Orcam software, the vOICe, and TapTapSee to use the same camera at the same time, maybe even as a background app, that'd be worth... $30, at least tongue.

Umm. I rambled again.

Yeah, I like your idea, and I agree with Jeff that overhanging obstacles and sign/fence posts that are at dangerously far-from-90°-angles are things that I and many others would very much like to know about before the injury.

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2017-02-12 18:03:43

I would love to see this drifter app for android.

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2017-02-12 19:27:27

Hi.
The thing with the orcam is that if you would give it internet access, it would lose it's state of an assistive technologie in some cuntrys, even the uS I think. Sure, if this thing would have had internet access, you could easily pick up things from the cloud like POI data, city maps and so on, but sadly, this will not work so easily.
Greetings Moritz.

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2017-02-17 15:28:55

This is a great thread guys, I'd love to hear more.

Jeffb, Maybe an infrared sensor could be used to detect low passages. Not sure how you'd wear it though lol. It would likely have to be it's own hardware device, maybe a special set of head phones with an infrared sensor on the headbar?

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2017-02-17 16:37:10

Some cane-mounted overhead-detecting devices exist, but IMO they're not very popular for a reason, other than obscurity/price/etc. A properly mounted headcam with a vOICe equivalent would probably work better.
(Though I am given to wonder... if you had enough hair to put in a spiky style, so it sticks up and looks more querky than outright bizarre, would that provide any information whatsoever? I ask because that whisker experiment a while back got me thinking about the whole subtle-vibrations-and-air-disturbances-sensing thing. I mean, Iroquois warriors tried it with scar tissue, but no idea if it actually helped.)

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2017-02-17 16:52:02 (edited by daigonite 2017-02-17 16:54:25)

I think such a device shouldn't be hard to build or overly expensive. I think all you would need to do is have a vibrating element, a clip that attaches to your hair or maybe a clip around your ear, and an infrared component that points slightly upward. If it detects something that is close to your head from a certain distance, it vibrates.

Having it on a cane might be less efficient since you're moving the cane constantly and the angle will change depending on the terrain.

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2017-02-18 04:19:03

As I understand it Peter Meijer is still working on a mobile raspi kit for the vOICe that uses a pair of camera mounted glasses. I think it may also includes other navigation features, the thread [here] may be well worth a read to check what they have planned and its current progress.

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2017-02-18 07:16:18

Hi.
One thing I have seen at ICC 2015 is a belt looking like, well, a normal belt tied around your waste. it has I think 6 vibration motors at different positions build into it so it can give you feedback on what's around you.
You also have a head mounted camera which you tie with a strip round your head, a bit like the helmet light if you know them, with that it also can detect hanging objects like low branches, overhead signs and other things hanging round there.
It was still a proto type and some major features were not ready, for example the device needed quite the big batterie needing to be carried around in a backpack which would be not ver'y efficient.
I dont know who is developing that project, but it was quite the promising start.
Greetings Moritz.

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2017-02-18 07:31:19

Crap I didn't even consider glasses LOL.

Hmmm a camera could work too but it seems a bit of an excessive solution if something like an infrared sensor could do. If it's able to calculate the distance you could even have the vibration mechanic vibrate more as you approach it. I don't know anything about building hardware though...

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2017-02-18 17:17:39

Hi.
Well, I would like glasses also a bit better, just looks more natural when you are walking through the city for example.
Greetings Moritz.

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2017-02-19 19:57:20

on the flip side, it's not a good idea to be walking about with a rather obviously visible camera mounted to a pair of glasses. When you accidentally walk into or passed an area with a bunch of kids, for example, it's my navigational aide isn't going to fly. One of the largest flaws in these items. Remember how pissed off people got with wearers of goodle glass? Those people could see where they were pointing their cameras. Imagine mounting them on people who aren't always aware of where they are looking.

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2017-02-19 22:19:20

Hi.
At exodus, good point, but for example, if I would have a navigational aid with the system that I have a camera mounted on a pair of sunglasses, I would still use my cane, this is just an aid in the end, isnt it?
for example the people wearing google glasses were not blind, and so they are not different from the other people, if someone walks there with a camera and a cane or a guide dog, people will surely notice what's going on there.
Greetings Moritz.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2017-02-20 04:19:29

Modern cameras can be very small though. If you have a laptop, feel the camera on your webcam just to get an idea how small cameras can be. In addition they're usually dark and thus would probably be inconspicuous on large sunglasses. The main problem is buying into the blind sunglasses stereotype. lol

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