2016-11-25 18:01:02

We have some questions aiming to improve gaming experience for the visually impaired. This is for our student's research at University College London. If you could spare 3 minutes, please help us fill in the survey in the link below.

Click to enter survey

2016-11-26 11:29:10

Hi and welcome to the forum.
Tons of mainstream games are already being made. Why not do some research on how to make them more playable in an easy way for the developers, instead researching how to make special vibrating hardware to make games accessible in a special way? My point is: Most blind people just wanna play like everyone else, including the popular games. They don't want special hardware to make things which are not accessible out of the box accessible. They want the mainstream to be accessible, so blind people aren't seen as special people, but normal people like everyone else. This is why people love mainstream products which has build in accessibility such as screenreaders etc, because then they can interact with the mainstream world without the need of any special blind hardware to make things accessible. I hope you got my point. However, I look forward to hear more about your research.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
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2016-11-26 13:16:54

Meh, on the one hand I agree in principal, on the other I've been wanting haptics to not suck since forever.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2016-11-26 17:04:57

@SLJ After looking at discussions in the forum, I get your point. You said that we should focus on making developers making mainstream games more accessible out of the box.

I have 3 questions to further explore your thoughts.

1. Do you find the mainstream games enjoyable as it is, given the current accessibility? For example, on fighting games like Mortal Kombat or shooting games like GTA.
2. Follow up on the first question, can you describe some moments you enjoy and some frustrations you faced?
3. What are the other problems you can think of besides improving screen readers?

2016-11-26 17:14:14

Personally I don't think we need things spelt out. Add a few sounds and the ability to read menus and other unreadable text, and I think we'd be fine. I could be wrong though. By a few sounds I mean sounds for doors, walls, openings, treasure chests, guns and ammo on the ground, you get my point.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

2016-11-26 17:39:10

Mainstream games need more audio navigability. Talking menus would be the easiest place to start (it's pretty disheartening that sighted gamers seem to utterly loathe talking menus). But what we really need is to be able to tell what's going on, where we are, what's around us. Injustice: Gods Among Us actually added an optional sound to indicate interactive objects, presumably because Netherrealm Studios is well acquainted with their enormous blind playerbase.
You know? I remember hearing that Elder Scrolls: Skyrim supports the Novint Falcon, which is on my list of haptic devices I'd try if I could afford throwing piles of money around for gaming hardware. I doubt the Falcon makes Skyrim accessible to the blind, though.
Death summed it up nicely. There are nonvisual ways of obtaining information, life-like and otherwise. They just need to be implemented. If this comes in the form of optional DLC which adds unrealistic chimes to indicate doors, well, that's better than nothing.

If we want to stick to the idea of wearables, consider the possibility of something like the wiimote or even just a smartphone: if we could use it to simulate touching walls or a virtual cane, we don't quite have the same level of access as a sighted person who can see everything over a large distance at a glance, but we're suddenly not hopelessly lost. Most vibration options in mainstream devices are pitifully limited, though; something in the vein of what Immersion ltd claims to offer sounds much more useful, but any decent haptics stubbornly refuse to gain enough mainstream success to practically test. (Didn't the Logitech mice that work best with Immersion's software go out of production a few years ago?)

More interesting wearables could help (I know a guy who I'm seriously considering trying to build a compass-belt for), but the low-hanging fruit is in the hardware we already have (or had. Let's not forget how many cool things just disappear because they apparently weren't cool enough to make enough money).

(But I like 2D things and those do need better hardware. The fact that I haven't built an electrovibration screen yet says more about me than the concept sad.)

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2016-11-27 11:33:45

Hi at post 1
welcome to the forum!
I have filled up the survey. I will be happy if you add a question that how main stream games are accessible and how you would be going to play them.
I am not strongly disagree with the hardware like thing but It will somehow weered.
Thanks
Ishan

life's battle do not always go to the stronger and faster man,
But sooner or later who win the one who thinks he can!

2016-11-27 13:44:10

what needs to happen is that upon installation which you would use your screen reader for you could then customise the accessibility options you require. ie audio navigation, self voicing menu's/other textual elements such as lets say mission briefings npc interaction etc. when there are arros on a map pointing you towards a given waypoint that could also be spoken. correct audio panning with the location of enemy targets loot other game items.

2016-11-28 09:26:03

@Strkfreedom: Thanks for your reply and questions. Here is my answers for your questions:
1. Do you find the mainstream games enjoyable as it is, given the current accessibility? For example, on fighting games like Mortal Kombat or shooting games like GTA.
Yes, I do find playable mainstream very much enjoyable as they are. However, the problem is that just a few things are needed to make them fully playable. More on that in question 3. GTA is not very playable, because you can't do the missions. But you can do a lot of things in the games though.
2. Follow up on the first question, can you describe some moments you enjoy and some frustrations you faced?
Oh, I've enjoyed so many moments while playing mainstream games. I've enjoyed playing Rockband, Guitar Hero, most fighting games, Shank, a lot of great games on my old psp etc. I have spend so many hours on playing mainstream games.
I have also had a lot of frustrating moments. Here are a few of them:
I've played through most of the Telltail Game of throwns series. I'm currently stuck in chapter 4, because the music is too loud to hear the foot steps, and the room is very difficult to navigate, because there are a lot of opsticals to bump into. I need some help from a sighted person to pass this area. The game is playable with a lot of patience until this part.
I have given Uncharded 4 a try as well. The audio and controls are designed so well, that a blind gamer can almost play the game. But the platforming is an issue, because you can't hear where to jump. If there were added a small feature where you could press a button and the character turned into the direction you need to go or jump, this would make the game playable. The company have already added a lot of accessibility features in the game such as auto aiming, so this is a shame that they won't listen for more feedback. Yes I have tried to get in touch with them, both on Facebook, by mail and by forums. So I think I'll sell the game again...
3. What are the other problems you can think of besides improving screen readers?
Well, so many games are nearly fully playable, the way the controls are designed, or the way the gameplay is designed. The problem is mainly the navigation in the mainstream games. On the consoles the controls are mostly designed so you need to push the left analog stick in the way the character is phasing, and not the direction you wanna go. If the character is standing with the back to you, you need to push the stick backwards instead of forward to walk forward. This makes it nearly impossible for a blind gamer to control the character, because there is no way to tell which way the character is phasing. One way to solve this issue is to add a button, which turned the character in the right direction you need to go, just like in Resident evil 6, and a few other games. If this feature was added, so many more mainstream games would be playable, and sounds for doors and other stuff would not be that important.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2016-11-28 13:57:03

Re: 9, 3.
Doesn't the character turn to face whichever direction you move the stick in, though? This would be more like BK1 or Paladin of the Sky or Airic the Cleric or Manamon, only with more degrees of freedom, right? Or are we talking about something other than the traditional standard for 3rd person?

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2016-11-29 01:55:17

"3. What are the other problems you can think of besides improving screen readers?"

The issue isn't so much that screenreaders need to be improved, it's games' accessibility to screenreaders that needs to be improved. That's largely something that needs to be fixed at engine level, in things like Unreal, Unity etc. With that, lots of games would just work out of the box. Without that, there are few few with accessible interfaces.

2016-11-29 04:01:21

to be honest I think that if games were self voicing and bypassed screen readers entirely I think overall the interface would be a whole lot easier for the end user. not only that, it would use up less system resources. screen readers are power hungry and games are even more so. put the 2 together...

a lot of games can be modded or scripted. so use those modding/scripting functions to build in accessibility elements. then on installation which you would use your screen reader for, you can then tailer your access needs.

2016-11-29 08:20:47

@CAE_Jones:
As far as I know, it works like this in the moderne 3D first person games:
When you load a level, the character is standing in front of you. That means if you push the analog stick forward, the character starts to walk forward. When the character bumps into a wall or other things, the camera ancle turns, and this is where the issues begins. When the camera starts to turn, pushing the analog stick forward does not make the character walk forward anymore. He will go left, right or backwards depending on the camera ancle. When he bumps into something again, the camera turns once again, and therefore, you have no control over where you're walking.
It works like an audiogame where you turn the character by using the arrow keys, but you have no compass. Then, you should add that the character turns when you bump into something, to give the best camera ancle, which also effects the movement.
There are only a very few games which works like Manamon, Paladin of the sky and the other forward, backward, left and right movement games, where you can't turn the character. If a feature could be made so you could lock the camera ancle, or as I previously mentioned, turns the character in the direction you need to go, a ton of more games would have been accessible. So I don't agree that adding a screenreader or talking menus would solve all the issues. It wouldn't solve the accessibility issues if you have no control over your character... smile

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2016-11-29 14:50:40

Ah, that camera crap that annoyed sighted people in MK:SM. Weird camera controls (or lack there of) have been one of the complaints I heard most when I paid attention to reviews and walkthroughs of mainstream games, but that was a while ago.
The solution then is simple, if annoying to get implemented: let us snap the camera to compass directions. This basically compensates for the fact that we can't align to walls and such, even without the would-be cinematic camera. The tricky part is keeping the camera from getting stuck in walls.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2016-11-29 16:18:43

@SLJ, @CAE_Jones:

We are very excited for your feedbacks. We did some discussions on what we can come up that would cope with the accessibility problems you identified. I'll let you know about it shortly.

2016-11-29 19:09:42

that's really great to hear. I hope you understand what I'm talking about, since it's quite difficult for me to describe fully what's going on, since I'm born blind and have never seen a mainstream game. I look very much forward to hear what you come up with regarding to solutions on how to improve the accessibility in mainstream games. I'm so glad that you take this as great feedback, and that you find it useful.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen