2016-10-09 08:08:45

How is this mud going? I'm still looking to give it a try. From what I gatherred, accessibility doesn't seem to be the issue anymore right?

Why do ghost hunters have to hunt ghosts? Well, there's a fear of being ghosted out there. They may need therapy as well as their ghost hunting kit.

2016-10-09 08:47:54

@Frandum, I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with. I always like it in rpgs when death is more a "go off and do something else since what you were doing didn't work" (especially when I get somewhere new to explore), rather than slapping your wrist and making you do more repetitive grinding. It's actually an interesting concept to explore and of course can make for some great descriptions.

One other nice thing about the ghost mechanic, is that you can actually let it foster player cooperation by having a way for players to do restoration rituals to effectively get you out of death early, meaning that there are ways players can help each other out.

@Marta Yes, access is awesome here, one reason it got a db entry. I particularly like the new commands for learning about the world around you such as area and directions, since apart from the ascii that was a miner issue in the game as the Frandum world is fairly large and has lots of locations to explore.

I'd highly recommend trying this one, it's not really like any other mud I've ever played at all one reason it took me a while to get into the swing of things, and if you love quests and can get your head around a game where basically your rewarded for wandering around and looking at things and working things out rather than slaying anything that moves you'll enjoy it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-10-09 11:51:15

Gonna have to try this one eventually. I especially like the responsiveness from the dev that's here, and the ability to stop and realize that an old mechanic is simply not all that hot (death, in this case) and be willing to fix it.

The only worry I have is syntax. I've played lots of games with quests, some complex, and oftentimes I get hung up on syntax. The phrase "open drawer" might not work, for instance; you might have to use "pull drawer"...except the word "pull" is not found -anywhere in the command list or anywhere in the nested descriptions of an area. That sort of thing is what threw me off 4 Dimensions...well, that, and the fact you needed Wikipedia to finish their freaking tutorial area because you needed to look up movies Humphrey Bogart was in.
So I'm not saying this is a problem here, but if wonky syntax is common in quests, I'll probably try briefly and leave.
I'm not saying quests can't be hard or that syntax can't be strange, but I hope it's at least either 1. consistent or 2. logical, and above all else, if it's not either one of those things, I hope that it's got a clue in the text somewhere.

Beyond that, this one sounds like great fun and I'll be interested to play it when I've got a little downtime.

Check out my Manamon text walkthrough at the following link:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8ls3rc3f4mkb … n.txt?dl=1

2016-10-09 12:16:58

@Jayde it should be 1 and 2. For the first few quests what to do is basically written in the descriptions of rooms and things. These quests serve to teach you the commands to use when exploring which amount to less than 10 (look, tell, search, dig, push/pull/turn). Other commands will be used at some point depending on context (e.g. kneel before an altar or kiss a toad) and your spells will give you new possibilities, but the basics won't change.

@Dark I got a few ideas, knowing that some limitations are in order (ghosts can go through walls and doors in Frandum, but we don't want this to allow low level players to visit areas for which they have not found the regular entrance or key for instance). Galanhir-willing, it should be deployed on Tuesday at worst.

2016-10-09 13:47:29

@Jayde, the syntax is not a problem with this one and most of what you find quest wise is fairly logical, or at least I've not become majorly stuck thus far and there haven't been any puzzles that are too strange, and I believe some extra commands are available later to illuminate areas of the game you might be stuck on, though I'll get onto that at another point.

What I particularly like is that you get experience for just wandering around and looking at things, and your never short of stuff to examine, indeed mostly when your required to use pull, push or turn it's fairly obvious and the game is very responsive in giving you a hint if you try the wrong command, eg "why don't you try turning it?" if you try pulling something.

the only mechanic in the game as far as syntax goes which I'm a little suspicious of is the "tell x about y" setup which is used for npc interactions. I actually much prefer it in games when a general "talk to so and so"  or "listen to so and so" is used to initiate steps in a quest and your only needed to actually tell x about y in cases where you logically would! have to tell x about y.
I recall for example one very clunky interactive fiction game where I was given the "this kingdom needs you to go and do mighty deeds" type speech from a wizard, who sent me to go and see the guard captain to get some equipment. Then the guard captain stood there like a lemon and wouldn't interact until it occurred to me to type "tell captain about need", why he didn't for example ask why the heck someone had just barged into his office I don't know. Still i do recall instances where in muds I've had that problem, not been able to initiate a quest because I don't know what particular thing I'm supposed to tell someone about big_smile.

That being said, the npcs in frandum are very responsive and usually will say what they need to say to you automatically when your in the right location, though how this works with multiple quest steps we'll see.

okay, possible frandum spoilers below, do not read on unless you want tumulous spoiled.

The two instances in Frandum i found a little weerd with the tell command were firstly flora and marius, and secondly the sherrif.

With flora and marius, the first logical thing I tried was "tell flora about marius" which didn't seem to worke really could've said something there.

With the sherrif, I get the strong impression that he has! a quest, but I can't initiate it no matter what I try to ask or tell him, he just tells me to keep out of trouble, this particularly goes for the bounty notice since I'd assume he'd want help catching the criminal, still I'll se if I can fix that since I've not tried all the choices with that.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-10-09 14:34:46

@Dark generally you can tell anything to NPCs to trigger their quests. Many don't have one, they are also here for flavor. For the Sherrif, he may be missing keywords but the note in his office is enough of a starting point I think. I'll double check him anyway.

2016-10-09 19:29:31 (edited by Orin 2016-10-09 21:15:27)

My only thing about death is is don't make it player-dependant. Right now, there is not enough players on at one time, all the time, to justify that ind of stuff. Most times i'm on and it's just me, and I have to ask for help here.
Edit: I have to ask for help right now, for instance. I did manage to find the room and the city that is connected to the riddle in said room. In that city, I came across the making Chocolate quest. I figured out the majority of it, and I know what I'm supposed to do next but the syntax is confusing me. So, I roasted the seeds and ground the seeds into a paste. It is getting the Sugar and Milk into the bowl that's proving tricky. Ovbiously getting the milk from the milk jar just causes the milk to "run through my fingers", something I'd expect to happen with liquid. However, I can easily grab some Sugar from the sugar jar and put it into the bowl, but how do I do the same for milk? I tried getting the bowl and using it on the milk jar. I've also tried pouring the milk jar, but that's not the right usage of the command, leaving me with an empty milk jar and forcing me to do a reset. The reset made me roast the seeds, ground them up into a paste as before, and the fun part, actually turning the paste into chocolate is the odd part here.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

2016-10-10 00:00:18

@Orin For filling the bowl, use the FILL command. There is a small quest right south of Wildstone for this if you remember (filling a cup from a pool of water). As this is not a widespread command, I have added hints on the description of the bowl. Hope you will be able to make the most delicious chocolates now! If you face issues with specific parts of the game like this, rather REPORT them online so it doesn't spoil others. I will answer you just as quickly.

@Everyone The new death system has been implemented and it's not player dependant (pretty much agree with you on this one, Orin). As usual, hope it's not buggy but if you run into issues, REPORT them in game.

2016-10-10 07:38:41

Once again, yee gods that was quick.
I'll have another look at the sherrif next time I'm in Tumulous.

As to player dependent death recall I totally agree, since it's a right royal pest not having players on who can help, though I do like the idea if a player is willing to help and happens to be! available that she/he can do so, and after all the world does have priests and necromancers and such who would likely have the skills to bring ghosts back before their allotted time expires.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-10-10 07:41:59

I've given it a try, and I admittedly love it.:) Getting stuck at the mysteriously devastated house quest though. Can't find any way to open the chest, which I think the last object should be inside.

Why do ghost hunters have to hunt ghosts? Well, there's a fear of being ghosted out there. They may need therapy as well as their ghost hunting kit.

2016-10-10 08:13:03

@Mata: I think you mistyped dial: it is D I A L. Cheers!

2016-10-10 08:28:21

Oh that's why! i misspelled it lol! thank you!:)

Why do ghost hunters have to hunt ghosts? Well, there's a fear of being ghosted out there. They may need therapy as well as their ghost hunting kit.

2016-10-10 08:51:49

A quick question guys: in Frandum when you look in the room you see what the mobiles are carrying. In non screen-reader version, there is a tabulation that shows clearly the item is carried by the mob and not lying on the ground, but it disappears with screen-readers of course.

My question is: how is this handled in other text games you are used to? I'm afraid adding something like "The guard is carrying a book of spells" would be a little heavy. Any suggestions would be appreciated to remove some confusion. Thanks!

2016-10-10 09:42:53

I'd actually not noticed that.
Frandum seems a little unusual in that respect since in most games, when your in a room you just get to know an npc is there and if you want more specific information on them, eg what they're carrying you have to look.

For example benieth a description of a prison cell you might get

"A man is chained to the wall"
and "A burly guard thrusts out his chest importantly"

then looking at the guard you'd get

"this plump balding gaoler is puffed up with his own sence of self importance and planely enjoys his job. A set of gaoler's keys being carried, a dirty leather breastplate being worn" indeed in some games you even have a pickpocket skill which can remove items from npcs directly once you'd seen them, so in the above example if you wanted to unchain the prisoner you might need to get the keys from the gaoler, either by fighting him and taking them or by stealing them.

I'd not noticed any confusion with frandum specifically, either because it was fairly obvious from the descriptions who was carrying or wearing what, or because I just look at every npc as a matter of course anyway.

I'd suggest either clunky though it seems include "she/he is carrying/wearing" or "being worn" or "being carried" in the main room descriptions along with the short description for each npc, or simply have it that you don't see what a person is carrying or wearing until looking at them, which most people should probably be doing anyway, especially in a game like Frandum.

Actually I did wonder if this was how stealing things worked for thieves, you looked at people and could see if they have small valuables on them and pick their pockets accordingly.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-10-10 13:13:59

@Dark ok, let's try the "He is carrying" thing. It's online, though not worth a piece of news.

2016-10-17 05:58:26

Hi.

The carrying works,and i look forward to trying out the new crafting system, also death is cool! big_smile.

One command I am slightly missing and noticed today is the ability to get a chat history of recent messages, in case I missed something, eg history to get the last ten chat messages and tells, or history chat to make it specific.

usually most chat systems in muds have this and it's handy with a screen reader particularly since you do sometimes miss chat message.

Okay, I now confess I'm a little confused.
Beware! farmlands of hope spoilage ahoy!

So, I got the key from the farmer and went into the house. i found a figurine of balance (and got killed by the skeleton), and that seemed to take care of the novice riddle, however in the farmer's study I found a scroll which had a riddle about someone in the city of good and the line "the invoker's knolidge" which is now in my missions.
Fare enough,however the line mentioned "in the city of good an invoker awaits" and so I gather I need to go and find a ladyy wizard or something somewhere who wants a job doing. The problem i have though is "the city of good" since that would seem to mean "Angnor" where the paladin's guild is.

However, when I voiced this opinion on the chat I was told the solution was closer to the farm.
Again, okay, however why if the solution is close to the farm does the riddle so obviously point to agnor? I'm rather confused, and now don't know where the heck to go to find this invoker.

Perhaps the hint could be a little more specific to a given plac?

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-10-17 06:20:04

Spoiler ahead:
I'm not giving you answer as to what's right or wrong, Dark, as it would ruin the game purpose. Whatever you believe, even if it's not right, better stick to it. What's right and what's wrong can be known by just trying. I'm on, so I'll be able to help. So what's the "city of good"? There's only one obvious city like that.

Why do ghost hunters have to hunt ghosts? Well, there's a fear of being ghosted out there. They may need therapy as well as their ghost hunting kit.

2016-10-17 07:26:37

@Dark wow you came back just on time. Indeed, crafting has arrived, with the possibility to craft something like a hundred different kinds of objects (it's possible you will be able to list them soon). But more minor changes keep popping up almost every day, e.g. the new list command you are so used to in other muds: I can't advertise them all in here, eh eh.
The history of chat / conversations has been requested a few times already, so it is probably something I'm gonna lean into next.
As for your quest, nothing to add to Mata's answer!

2016-10-17 07:51:39

Thanks MArta.
Ah, I'll check things out and see what I can find.

As regards "coming back" it's generally not so much a leaving and returning as getting taken up with other things, particularly indeed as far as gaming is concerned that I do need to try things out in order to write about them for this site, though I will update the Frandum page with a note on crafting since that's the sort of feature people would really appreciate.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-10-17 12:39:06

Hmm, what is the syntax you're used too to scroll back through chat / discussions?

2016-10-17 15:47:57

It depends upon the game from what I've noticed. One game for example has a replay command that will replay the last 10 chat and tells, and can be changed with arguements, eg, repllay chat, replay tells, or replay chat 5.

Other games call it something like history.

I'd suggest replay myself since it's fairly easy to type a lot of the time.

I've updated the db page with a little about crafting and invocation, and I'll probably add in more later, I've not yet tried crafting myself  as yet.

I'm progressing and really liking the world and exploring, however One thing which does keep happening is I keep getting killed.
beware! spoilage ahoy!

Most recently I got jumped on in the volcano by a fire elemental. Even when I go to the arena and fight an opponent at my level i end up losing.
I know Frandum isn't a game all about the fighting, but I do wonder if something is wrong. I now have armour and a shield (from the guy in tumulous), and am using a mace rather than the starter's dagger, though getting armour is a little difficult since I'm finding making money rather hard as I don't usually find an easy way to get to a pawn broker to sell things even when i find valuable items, besides it doesn't just seem to be armour that's the problem but my skills generally, even when using commands like numb, strike or dirt.

Do I just have to grind in the arena until I can take out an opponent the same level as me in order to be safe while exploring? that doesn't seem right but if combat does need practice I'm not really sure how else to do it other than slaying random wildlife for no reason which sort of seems out of keeping with the game.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-10-17 16:01:17

@Dark Ok thanks for the input

Minor spoilers below

For the fighting you really need to look at your opponents. I see you attacked a stag without looking at it. Grinding the skills can help a little, but the game is designed to be finishable without skills, crafting or guild powers. Combat commands are dangerous at a low level: if you try to number but fail, you won't hit, and in the meantime your opponent sure is hitting. You can also have a more passve fighting style and let your character deal the blows (it was the only way to fight before spells for a lot of years). Arena fights are tough for their level: they require preparation, very good equipment, some food to regain health between bouts : don't expect to finish them in less than 3 assaults... And the fire elemental is a fake fight: you are tempted to rush into it but should turn away from it once you realize he is too strong for a level 4 ;-).

2016-10-17 21:25:54

And lo, there  was a replay command in Frandum (as well as cool other improvments)

2016-10-18 10:05:53

Awesome!

My problem with the elemental, and indeed with a couple of other fights I've run into is that the flee command doesn't work too well, so even if I am being fought by something a bit too strong there isn't usually a backout, I get "the so and so is surrounding you" or "you retreated a few feet" or something like that. That happened twice with the fire elemental.
Indeed since it takes time to look at an enemy, it might be helpful if you could let players know when something is too strong in the fight descriptions before it's needed to type the look command, eg "the fire elemental attacks you, your in trouble" That way if fleeing is this difficult you can start off by typing flee multiple times.

Fights seem a little odd even in terms of the arena. I have killed the veteran orc and as I've ground stats a little I can now often get him to severely wounded, and I can kill most of the opponents in the multiple brawl scenario like the goblins and the dwarf, however on some occasions I just seem to get paggered very quickly.

Btw, speaking of food and fighting, I notice there is a butcher corpse command but I don't think I noticed if there was a cook command or something similar. given the amount of flowers herbs and leaves in the game that could actually be fun, being able to cut meat from a corpse, make a fire and either roast the meat on a spit or cook in a pan with leaves or flowers for seasoning and maybe roasted vegitables, with more prepared meals giving more hp regen.

I actually always like games that give me the feeling of wilderness survival ala a fantasy like lotr, catching my own fish and cooking them, having to literally survive off the land, maybe make some of my own items out of skins or bark etc. Indeed, one other game i've played let you make a bark skewer of a branche and cook meat on it so you didn't even need a pan (albeit if you had a pan you could get more meet and seasoning into it).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-10-18 11:33:32

@Dark

I forgot to tell you the fire elemental was lowered and slowed down a bit so the chances of fleeing are higher. You can look at your opponents to see their strength, and very soon you will have another way of seeing what is in store for you before being attacked.

Cook exists: you cook meat on a fire. The seasoning / pan idea is fine, I'll write it down for later.