2016-09-16 16:22:29

for gps there is nearby explorer, get there, and more.

2016-09-16 19:12:56

Or, hold off on doing that initial set up until you are someplace where you have some privacy to enter your password.

From my experience, nothing on the phone is so important that it can't wait until I am some place where I can have some privacy.

2016-09-16 19:33:43

@Grryf, while you have a fair point about new features coming out... I don't see how that helps prove that apple genuinely cares. Coming out with new features is what they're being paid to do... especially for an accessibility department. The long standing bugs that haven't been fixed... well, those say much more, imho. But again, all this is really just theory... because as long as I have it, I could care less how much Apple actually gives a crap or not.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-16 23:55:09

Same here, as long as it is there, whether Apple gives a rats ass or not doesn't matter to me.

I just find it very annoying to hear people claim that Apple cares, when, in truth, they have no proof one way or the other. You may as well claim that money grows on trees.

2016-09-17 01:23:24

As do I. People seem to take the appearance of new features as enough proof... which, realistically, isn't. But opinions, I suppose. If we were to boil it down, I honestly think it would be hard to find a mainstream community that we can say for certain genuinely cares about accessibility.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-17 04:36:11 (edited by bryant 2016-09-17 04:48:31)

in my opinion, apple has bent over backwards to add accessibility into their products for us. yes, I will admit that there is a marketing aspect, but that's true with every company, that's how they make a living. If there are bugs, they generaly get fixed within 2 or 3 updates, that's what the accessibility testing team at apple is for, and that's what the feedback ap is for. And no, the nfb didn't need to step in and sue apple because it didn't have accessibility built into their products, because I have heard from many people that voice over was already in the mac prior to that, and also that apple had voice over on their phones the very next day. I hardly notice any bugs, and I use my phone on a daley bases. Even if there are bugs, I'm optimistic that they will get fixed, and that doesn't make my phone unusable. At least it has accessibility features and works for me. There are going to be bugs in everything, that's reality.

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2016-09-17 07:21:32 (edited by afrim 2016-09-17 07:23:09)

@Assault freak, where do you see the carelessness of Apple in regards to Accessibility? Still you think that the headphone jack is an (accessibility drawback?) That seems hardly true.

2016-09-17 11:00:35

Ah, but it is!  Accessibility is a term that is too lightly used, and people are so willing to sit down and be complacent provided that the product is accessible enough for them.  This is the height of arrogance as well as the showcase of how much people truly care about anyone else.
Is this product truly accessible to me?  I am a blind and hearing impaired individual who, always seeks the best sound quality and amplification for the best results.  No... I don't simply seek great sound quality because I am an audiophile, but because it benefits me when I am carrying on a conversation with anyone using my iOS device, be it by text messaging or phone call or any other means.  Doing away with the headphone jack is a public declaration that as far as Apple's concerned they honestly don't care whether or not I am interested in their products and that they won't suffer as the result of my money not going to them.  it is not Apple who has bent over backwards whatsoever, but I, the user, who must do this by purchasing extra accessories for one device, accessories that can get lost, accessories that I can't honestly say will benefit me whatsoever for any other purpose than one device I can live without if need be.  If accessibility has in fact switched over to how much we can do with devices rather than how much devices can do for us, then Android clearly is the way to go, since there, at least, we won't be hemmed in by ridiculous limitations.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2016-09-17 15:57:56

At present, the only company or group of people making an accessible product that I would even consider saying that they care are the people behind NV Access and NVDA. I myself don't use it, I use JAWS and am very happy with it, considering it money well spent. As much as I like JAWS and support Freedom Scientific, I am not so blind as to think that Freedom Scientific has any altruistic considerations. Nope, all they care about, like any other for profit business, is making money. That their products help the blind and visually impaired is secondary to their primary goal of turning a profit. Although I don't like name calling and consider it a show of immaturity, Greedom Scientific is probably a more accurate name than Freedom Scientific is.

Apple is no different, you can also lump Microsoft, and Nuance, and just about every other for profit company you can think of in that group. They don't give a hang about you or your vision problems. All they care about is how much you'll spend on their products.

Actions speak louder than words. If Apple was truly serious about accessibility, most of the many long standing accessibility bugs would have been fixed in an update or two, instead they've been there for at least two years and are still nowhere near being addressed. That single fact alone speaks far louder to me of Apple's real considerations, than any claims of Apple caring about accessibility ever will.

When I consider products to purchase, whether they care about accessibility or not isn't a factor in my decision over what to buy. I simply choose the product that is accessible and fills my needs. When I bought my iPhone, I chose it because Android was so far behind in accessibility that it wasn't even a consideration. Now, I keep my iPhone because I don't want to spend the $400 or more on another phone. If I were in the market for a phone today, with all the accessibility improvements that have been made, who knows, I'd probably buy an Android phone.

2016-09-17 17:05:30

Afrim, I never said they were careless... simply that they don't care for the reasons people think they do. Different statements. Nocturnus made a fair point, which I've had other hearing impaired friends also make... this puts a lot of inconvenience at the hands of other people who have hearing loss, and yes, by that standard, the headphone jack being removed ins a drawback as now the industry standard connector is gone and only one device can be used at a time if you still want to use that connector with the lightning adaptor. And again, charging will no longer be possible unless you have a dock... a dock that'll set you back another $40, mind you. I'd much rather have my iphone 6 battery case with the headphone jack, and the lightning port interfacing through micro USB so I can do both at the same time, or use the battery case to charge my phone and listen to music at the same time.

I second Figment's last post in every way, and would also echo that now when I switch phones, I may very well go to Android and get most of my apps again since i don't have that many expensive ones to begin with, and will keep my iphone 6 regardless.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-17 17:07:19

Yeah, much as I hated my HTC product, I'd probably go back to Android in a couple of years.  IN any case, this may be much like touchscreen devices were many years ago; we used to think buttons were entirely necessary and have come a long way from then.  I hope time can prove me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2016-09-18 04:21:41

Well, given that no one has actually discussed their experiences with these new IPhones, I thought I'd post my observations, since I was one of the few lucky individuals to receive theirs yesterday.  Before I do, however, a bit of background.
At first, I was just as frustrated about the lack of headphone jack as everyone seems to be, and I still am, to a degree.  However, my frustration has shifted from "wtf, no headphone jack? to "Wtf, why lightning?"  I don't think the IPhone is the first phone to kill the headphone jack, only the first flagship phone to do so.  Several android devices, such as the Moto Z have already done so.
The difference, and the thing that bothers me, is that Apple has chosen to drop the standard they recently adopted (USB C) on their IOS line of products, while continuing to use it on their macs.  Rumors claim that the next Macbook pro will have 4 USB C ports, but wait... no lightning.  How are we expected to plug in our lightning powered headphones we purchased for our iPhones onto our brand new macs?   Why can't we just use USB C on our phones and our macs?  I'm hoping they resolve this on the IPhone 8, but I doubt it.

Anyway, is the IPhone 7 actually worth it, despite its huge drawback?

I purchased an IPhone 7 plus and I'm actually loving it so far.  The new home button is neat, the batterylife is actually quite insane, and it is extremely snappy.  3d touch works a little better than it does on the IPhone 6s, or at least the one I used.  I did not own one, so I cannot truly say that with confidence.
I had it running for nearly 12 hours using the gps (for a few minutes), facetime calls, downloading over 4 gb of random content, and typing a lot on my bluetooth keyboard.  I only managed to lower the battery to 48%.
I'm thinking of downloading some audio games and playing them for a few hours to see how the battery suffers. 
I am very impressed with this thing so far, even though I was expecting a much more disappointing phone.  I only wish that apple would give a little more love to OS X, although I've heard many voice over bugs were squashed.
Also, voice over on IOS 10 has been much less buggy than on
previous releases, so that's another good thing.

I'm probably gonna get banned for this, but...

2016-09-18 09:26:22

Hello,
I have said that the device comes with an adaptor which lets you connect your prefered headphones to your iPhone. You don't need to pay, and you already know this.
The question is, did the headphones of the previous iPhone models offer a "great sound quality"? Yes? Then what's the striking difference among these kinds of headphones?
"no, I used something else to well-hear what I needed on my iPhone."
You can do it even in iPhone 7 via the adaptor since they decided to remove the headphone jack. I don't stand up for this change, but I'm glad that they offered a choice giving you the opportunity to connect other brands of headphones to your device.
If it was so easy to switch to Android, I'd be the first to do it. In fact, I came from Android because I was too disappointed with what I could do on my device. Imagine that you should download a group of other web browsers to test them individually which is the most screen-reader friendly. Then, you need to download a phone manager which eases the way to answer/reject calls. After that, look for a music/video player because Google play music's buttons won't be exactly where you think. Reading .docks files will let you have a rest, as google docks does the job fairly well, but you need to start working again because you do not have an accessible PDF viewer. Your journey in gaining reasonable access to your device isn't over yet. You may look to send an e-mail to your friend but it will turn out that both the mail client and the keyboard which your typing from are not reasonably accessible, so you will need to open Playstore and search for the keyboard that meets your needs. having spent lots of hours to customise your phone the way you need, by end of day, you realise that you have installed a group of apps which are filling up your RAM more that is needed for what you are using. A friend of yours will advise you to download a cleaner from playstore that will clean the junk files and cache memory which is causing a little bit of lag. You will also consider turning off/completely removing the built-in apps that you do not use, cause you have installed some other apps to do the job. Android will offer you the possibility to set your favourite apps as default, so that's not a problem.
Something else that I should have pointed out from the beginning of this post, you need to work with Talkback to somewhat resolve its issues, one of the most important being swiping which performs very sluggishly.
Not all people have the knowledge to do all what I have wrote on this post, and a considerable number of other users do not have the time. Someone will need to go to work, someone will need to go to university, another will have to write a project, one other has to study hard for the season of tests, and more and more circumstances in life which consume our time. If I buy another iPhone, the only thing I need to do is connecting my Apple ID to my iPhone, and installing some Apps I use. I do not need to download another keyboard, I do not need to download another mail client, neither a web browser, nor a PDF viewer. All this will come as a result of not having backed up my apps to iCloud.
So that's up to you what to do. I have already told the reason why I will stick with iOS.

2016-09-18 15:28:00

For the present, I'm not abandoning iOS either, because while it has come a long way, Android still has a long way to go to equal iOS' accessibility.

I just refuse to buy into the iPhone 7 and Apple's decision to remove the earphone jack.

2016-09-18 16:09:29

I have to put in my opinion on the situation I see here. Alright, keep in mind I'm not telling you it's required you buy an iPhone 7, cause let's face it, in today's financial situation, who has the cash unless you're with some program? What gets me is people were going to flip to Android in a heartbeat because of, granted a rather inconvenient design switch, and some voiceover issues. Now, granted, I do wish they'd fix the rotor issue, but you also have to remember that even with their new apps, they've coded in the spoken hints, so they have, in no way, forgotten about us. But again, those are the only two reasons I've seen you guys going against Apple, and I've been reading since about post 50. Now if you can tell me some other reasons you're disenchanted with Apple, I might be able to figure out why you'd want to flip to Android so quickly. Again, your choices are your own but it seems as though you were going to make a hasty platform switch because of two things. I'm expecting some reprimands because even I can see how foolish my post could be read as, but I've been watching from afar and again, I've only seen the earphone jack and the accessibility bugs as your issues.

Heroes need foes to test them. Not all teachers can afford to be kind, and some lessons must be harsh.

2016-09-18 19:17:41

@Aaron77, glad you're enjoying the new phone. About USB C, Apple decided to not ditch the lightning probably for the soul reason that they were already taking out one standard connector and didn't want to take out another one and change it to something else, making the lightning cables that everyone has useless. That would be my best guess.. that battery does sound very good, but for that much money, I'd need something much more impressive than a big battery to convince me to buy it. And that battery which is big now might not be so big in a year or two. lol My iphone 6 battery still holds its charge amazingly, and with the battery case I have I've been able to use it as much as two days before needing ot find a wall socket.

@Dragomier, at least on my part, you are correct one of the reasons I want to switch. The removal of the headphone jack is a decision I don't support, and that means when my iphone 6 dies I'm going to either have to get another one, or do the same when I resign my contract... and why do that if I can get a phone that is possibly more waterproof and still retains the headphone jack? That aside, I am also tired of being locked into having to use IOS and Itunes the way Apple tells me to. I'm sick of adding music to my library then syncing the phone through itunes, where I could just copy and paste on Android devices. I'm sick of deleting albums off my phone, then forgetting that they're still in my library and having to delete them there as well. That, and from a tweeking standpoint, android is much more open to that than IOS is before jailbreaking. Are there cons? Sure. Do I get accessible right out of the box? Mostly... but I'm willing to play with it more, because from the experiences I've had with the latest devices, I'm seeing more and more good reason to switch.

@Afrim, a lot of that sounds already like what I have to do on windows... guaranteed accessibility is a bonus, not a defacto standard. Much of the third party stuff you mentioned happens the same on IOS, just less so... there are still tons and tons of inaccessible apps where you have to go with trial and error, especialy with games, messaging apps, and apps that link to pieces of hardware like guitar peddles and the like. On windows, I already have to look for accessible mail clients and test web browsers, so doing it on another platform won't be all that different. I see why you switched, but how long ago was that and what was the most current and up to date version of Android you tried and from what company?

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-18 20:41:04

I agree that abandoning iOS for Android just because of an earphone jack is kind of silly, so I'll voice my opinion of Apple's decision by not buying into the iPhone 7 series. I'd be willing to bet though that after all the negative feedback, Apple changes their mind and brings back the earphone jack next year, if not sooner. Unfortunately for them the damage to iPhone sales, and their image, will have already been done.

Long standing accessibility issues and bugs should be a major consideration for anyone who needs the accessibility technology to work just to be able to use their device. Not making it an issue just tells Apple and any other company producing assistive technology, that you are willing to accept whatever they hand you, even if it's mostly non functional, more of an after thought than a real attempt at being accessible. And if that's the case, you do the vision impaired community more harm than good. Or do you enjoy being treated as a second class citizen, who's not worthy of the same consideration as everyone else?

Yes, iOS is currently ahead of the competition when it comes to being accessible, but I am not so blinded by the love of Apple, and all things Apple, that I won't consider products from their competitors.

2016-09-18 21:18:54

Honestly Figment? I haven't really noticed many bugs in iOS. And no. I am no second class citizen. But I'm satisfied than what I see. And if that makes me idiotic? So be it. I enjoy what I do. I will not be judged.

Heroes need foes to test them. Not all teachers can afford to be kind, and some lessons must be harsh.

2016-09-19 00:53:43

It goes both ways.  I currently sit with a mac and an iPhone at my disposal, fully aware that as far as accessibility goes, Apple is making no real leaps and bounds, and the reason I've bought into the system thus far is that, for the most part, neither is anyone else.  Solid congruity is attractive and hard to pass up if you get the opportunity.  I believe I mentioned above somewhere that I honestly do dream of a windows future where things are just as synchronized.  The day I see that future arrive, I'll probably buy into it, because to me, accessibility is still about how much devices can do for us, rather than what we can do with devices.  The other is a matter of interest, and if you're interested that's perfectly reasonable
Some of us will truly gravitate towards accessibility when interest is not really there or when convenience overshadows interest, but accessibility and personal preference are two different things.  One is the ability the product itself gives without the user actually putting in any effort, while the other is a matter of patience and devotion and time and effort and many other things that I just can't put in anymore because I think I'm getting too old for this, or maybe because I have kids now, or maybe because responsibilities or whatever the case is, but it taxes me.  It's the difference between JAWS and NVDA.  You can count on JAWS being ready to work for you as soon as you install it, ready to tackle just about any possible scenario on windows and perhaps even the net.  NVDA is built with many things in mind, but JAWS has 20 plus years on it.  I am still tweaking NVDA, and it seems like every update breaks my tweaks a little.  I can know without the shadow of a doubt that it'll usually take at least two major versions of JAWS before my personal settings are tampered with.  So, with that in mind, why, on windows, do I use NVDA?  Because I don't have money for FS, because I have no way of justifying throwing that kind of money at FS even if I did have it, because FS is, as far as I know, still not ready or willing to make JAWS truly affordable to me, and because NVDA is, with my personal configuration, just as good as, and in some cases, better than JAWS.  In the end, this is not a matter of which is truly better overall so much as which is better for me personally and has nothing to do with accessibility, as both products have proven themselves to be accessible.
here, however, the table turns a bit.  Apple has just taken out a substantial part of my day to day life, a tiny hole which, for its size, has contributed immensely to my overall productivity and creativity.  it's present on my book player.  It's present on my TV!  It's present on my PC!  It's present on my stereo!  it's present on my stupid and mostly useless bop-it, and yes, still, still kicking on my current iOS device!  But apple wants me to get rid of it!  On principle alone, I can no longer justify giving Apple money for a new iOS device based on the fact that I don't know how long they will continue to include this adapter before they decide they're going to tell me to get rid of that mindset as well, coupled with the fact that if I lose said adapter for any reason, I have to buy yet another one!  You can call that accessibility; I call it crap!

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2016-09-19 01:10:28

I am not judging you. If you like what Apple provides and are willing to ignore some of the choices they are making for you, that is your choice, more power to you.

But there are some here trying to sell the idea that we should all blind ourselves to the fact that Apple is making our choices for ussimply because their products are accessible. Sorry, but I won't do that, and I object to someone telling me what I should do. That is my choice to make, not theirs.

2016-09-19 17:37:03

I heard that there are a lot of deals going on at the major US carriers until the end of this month, so I decided to switch back to T-Mobile from Sprint, and upgrade early. I'm getting the 128GB jet black iPhone 7 Plus some time in November, although I might get it sooner, if I get lucky.

2016-09-19 18:01:50

While I enjoy the accessibility I get, I'm also not blinded enough go with Apple simply because of it while ignoring all the leaps that Android is making with each progressive release. They're only catching up to apple, sure, but at least they're moving ahead from their current state... and that's something more than apple is doing. But as Figment said, there are many people here who won't see that... and who will stick with Apple products simply because they hand you accessibility in a box and dictate what you can and can't do.

As to them fixing the jack because of all the negative feedback, the stance from Apple from what their reps have all said seems to be a very marketted form of get over it. Their defense is, "Remember the floppy than cd rom drive being removed from the mac? Everyone complained about that too... but they moved on and accepted the change. So this should be the same!"

@nocturnus, well said. I've always prefered to have full control over my own devices as well, and let my preferences decide what I get, not how accessible something is. If I hae to compensate for it in some way or another, I'm not beyond doing that. It's the same with video gaming consoles... people are pushing the xbox1 because of the fact that narrator on it is better than the ps4 equivalent, but for me, it's not about how much of the interface gets read... it's about the game library and which of those games are more playable as someone who is blind, and the ps4 steps all over the xbox1 in that area.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-19 23:17:33

Here's my stance.
While others most likely use their iPhone more than I use mine and the earphone jack thing would affect them more adversely, I am just a casual user. I mainly use my iPhone for Netflix and music.
Now, I know what you're thinking, the earphone jack is a huge part of that. But I also know when and where I can charge my phone and I'm prepared. As for accessibility, that's part of it, and to be honest I've not noticed many bugs other than some auto gain issues at times and the rotor issue, which are both easy to work around. I'm not blindly following Apple, I'm a Windows person myself, but their phones do what I need them to and that's enough for me.

Heroes need foes to test them. Not all teachers can afford to be kind, and some lessons must be harsh.

2016-09-20 00:20:31

and it begins.  people are reporting a hissgate with their brand spanking new, iPhone 7's, going so far as to send recordings of this hiss reportedly coming from the back of their device.  what was that about really wonderful sound improvements through the lightning port?

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2016-09-20 00:35:03

I found this article on the whole hissing issue. From iMore:
http://www.imore.com/no-hiss-buzz-not-u … -7-problem