2016-09-16 06:15:06

The ps4 system software version 4.00 is out now, and apparently, accessibility has not been as improved as people would hope. At this point, as clunky as narrator has been, it's still superior. I don't really care as I can find games, play them, and check enough things to make me happy... but if we want full accessibility, we'd better step up and talk about it to Sony, or at least on the forums. otherwise, this may be the best we get. Just saying! Xbox1 is now one definitive step ahead. But game library, not accessibility, is always my priority for a console... the xbox1 has one single game I like that I can't get on my ps4. The ps4, on the other hand, has at least five games that are exclusive that I can't get on the xbox1. So for me, it's still an easy choice.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-16 09:40:16

Hi.
This is quite disappointing, but it didn't came as a big surprise for me. I have wrote so many times to the danish support requesting the TTS outside the US, and they simply say they can't do anything about it. So, as I previously have said, Sony don't listen, and they don't care about accessibility at all on the Playstation. It seems it's the american law which forces them to put TTS in the console, so they did, and won't update it or anything.
Does someone know if they have released the TTS outside the US? I haven't updated my ps4 yet. If I just could get the TTS as it is now, then I'll be happy.., so I could browse my games and use the online features which are accessible.
Regarding the games, I agree. There are more playable games on the ps4 than the XBox 1.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
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2016-09-16 22:46:38

Hi.
I seriusly don't understand why sony doesnt export the TTS options to units outside the US.
It's like with amazon and their echo product, even though they said some days back that the products will come to the european continent, including germany, so that's a quite cool thing.
It seams as stated above that sony and game developers care about accessibility for blind people, accept some of the game developers.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2016-09-17 17:52:22

What are the five games on PS4 that are exclusive?

2016-09-17 19:05:51

Meh, what did you expect from a mainstream game console manufacturer? I never thought it was worth it to invest in any kind of console. Even if the interface was accessible, the games themselves are not which makes it pointless to buy something like the Play Station or xBox.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-09-17 20:31:13

Chris, there are some games that are very playable on the ps4... so I don't think you've quite done a lot of research there. If you enjoy games, they're definitely worth the investment. But meh, personal preference, I suppose... some people don't touch anything unless every single inch of the thing is playable.

Ross, there are and will be more games than five that are exclusive... and not all of them are playable independently. but cooperative play with people who are into the same games is fun as well.

Street fighter V
Samurai Warriors 4 and 4-ii
Guilty Gear XRD / Revelator
Blazblue Central Fiction
Ryu Ga Gotoku / Yakuza games which requires asistance to play but is well worth the world and story.

Aside from these, we get most of the other accessible fighting games and others playable on the xbox1, aside from Killer instinct. The xbox1, on the other hand, only has Killer Instinct which is exclusive and playable, at least at the moment that I'm aware of.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-17 21:41:11

Hi.
The question that stays for me is if it's worth to get a ps4 and not stick for example with a ps3 these days.
Thing is, as far as I have seen, the ps3 isn't ver'y expensive anymore and has more playable games then the ps4, maybe I am mistaken on that fact and maybe someone could clear this up a bit for me?

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2016-09-17 23:21:56

The ps3 has been out longer so yes... its library is obviously bigger. If quantity is what you're going for, then the ps3 is the better option. However, if you want to stay current with the latest releases, then go with the ps4.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-17 23:42:02

As far as I know, most video games don't have very good sound designs. I don't feel like learning different menus and how many key presses will accomplish a specific action. I would love to play video games, but as far as I know they're not as blind friendly as I'd like.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-09-17 23:49:16

Just curious... how many modern video games have you looked up? I'm sorry, but if you think most modern games especially from the last two generations don't have very good sound design, your definition and standard for sound design is either really high, or you just haven't watched enough gameplay videos...

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-18 03:52:13 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2016-09-18 03:58:27)

Ive seen reports of significant improvements to the large text option in 4.00, so theyre still working on some aspects of acccessibility.

xbox have a huge advantage in that narrator already existed as a full product, whereas sony were starting from scratch.

what do you think about suggesting to them that they licence an existing third party product instead, such as NVDA? It should be much easier to get it system-wide then.

2016-09-18 08:32:10

Except NVDA is not coded for whatever OS the ps4 is based on... but I doubt that would work as Sony wouldn't want to spend the extra time doing that. I think we're just going to have to keep hoping and waiting.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-18 11:43:26

How about theoretically if that wasnt an issue, would PS4 NVDA be preferable to PS4 TTS? If so any reasons why?

2016-09-18 14:51:22

Hi.
Well, I don't really see which releases are a big thing for me to get a ps4 instead of a ps3.
I mean almost all playable games are still released on the last gen of consoles, ok, accept maybe mortal kombat X, but I can play that one on the PC, can't I?
I lost a bit track on what's accessible on the gaming market for the ps4, so, are there games exclusevily for the ps4 that we can play? I just know mortal kombat X..

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2016-09-18 17:59:33 (edited by Chris 2016-09-18 18:02:06)

I haven't really bothered with video games since they are mainly focused on visual elements. I figured that the sound aspect would be tacked on as an afterthought.

I don't think it's possible to use NVDA with the PS4. Sony has to get their act together and do the right thing. If Apple can provide all this access, there is no excuse these other companies can't do the same. I'm sick and tired of the claims that state "Oh, we can't do this" or "It's too difficult and not worth our time". Then again, these companies are in it for profit and don't think including adequate accessibility features is worth their time. *sigh*

With my rant over, would someone provide me with something to listen to? You may change my opinion on modern video games.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2016-09-18 18:28:39

Well, since the TTS function isn't released outside the US yet, I'm thinking about continueing the guide for the ps4 I was working on long time ago, where all the menus are displayed. But I'm not sure on how many people would be interested in this...

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
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2016-09-18 18:38:07

Yeah... you know what they say about assuming.

Killer Instinct for Xbox1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07lvYuHdpic

Call of Duty Black Ops 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EaF7m_KIzk

There are way more examples, but I don't have time to dig them up right now.. but those will suffice. As for accessibility, Apple is in it as much for profit as Sony... they are not, contrary to popular belief, an altruistic charity that only cares about accessibility for the good of the world. And whether you're sick of it or not, the fact is that these companies are mostly right... accessibility, for the most part, is not worth the time to money ration they get. The time they spend on accessibility doesn't even come close to matching the the results in terms of worth. You way, way underestimate the market here. Blind people are already a niche market. blind gamers are a niche within that niche. Blind ps4 users are a niche within a niche within a niche... you see where I'm going with this.

Simba, check my list above for games on the ps4. And all playable games that are being released now are n longer being released on ps3.

@ianhamelton, of course I would prefer nvda over ps4... but that's just not going to happen. That would have to involve a whole rewriting for the screenreader, as again, the operating system on Sony's consoles has never been windows based, unlike the xbox1.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-18 20:01:37

Hi.
I am wondering, do you know on what kernal the playstations OS is based on? Maybe something could be developed when we know what kernal the OS has.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2016-09-19 02:11:17

Personally I don't think we'll ever get full fledged accessibility. Am I happy with that, no. Am I resigned to it, yes. Just gotta go with what we have. If we were less of a nitch then maybe protesting would do something, but as is...

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.

2016-09-19 07:00:48

Chris, here's another video of killer instinct, with step by step explanation of how it is playable of you're blind - https://youtu.be/THbVXGulDUE

Simba - it isn't open to the public, third party apps don't have system access in the same way as other platforms.

Assault_freak you said it yourself, you know what they say about assuming. A couple of years ago no-one would have dreamed that any console would have any kind of blind accessibility.

I was actually asking something slightly different though - why would you prefer NVDA? As much detail as possible

2016-09-19 07:43:11

Well, this isn't an assumption... the reason this came about is because of the ADA that changed recently requiring home media appliances to have some form of accessibility. That's why the ps4 and XBOX1 started to receive improvements in that area... Microsoft just went with it. How can I tell? Because both of these accessibility features are only available in the USA. I'm basing it on that, and the fact that in Sony's case, I can't believe the programmers didn't do research on other screen reading software to program something that would automatically decode everything and encode it into synthesized speech, instead programming the system to only read the things they code in. Also, with the latest numbered upgrade being so pushed by the developers and playstation, why haven't we seen any major improvements when everything else has gotten an overhaul? As to assuming NVDA will not happen, again, ps4 is not windows based, and NVDA was programmed in a windows environment, so they would have to rewrite the whole thing from scratch. As to why I would prefer it? No reason particularly... because honestly I think trying to put NVDA on the ps4 is like trying to put Voiceover on Windows. The environments are completely different, and NVDA on ps4 would just be a different screen reader with the name on it. I would prefer it for the soul reason that it's already meant to read everything it can on screen as opposed to specific parts that have to be added.

I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here. Like Death said, and because of the ADA from last year, I don't think we'll get game consoles that are 100% accesible, at least not in the near future. We can be optomistic, and if the ps4 or xbox1 get more I am going to be over the moon. but I just don't see it happening. And to all those who say the ADA is only part of it, I put this question. why haven't Microsoft or Sony made those features available in every part of the world? Microsoft especially, even though you can cheat by switching the language to US English to get Narrator, why should people have to do that if the ADA isn't a really relevant part of the feature? Apple's voiceover supported many languages from the start. So did NVDA. lol Again, I appologize if this sounds contrary, irritated, rude or anything else negative... just my thoughts. Not trying to challenge anyone here.

Discord: clemchowder633

2016-09-19 09:33:08

The Playstation firmware is running on Unix, but that information doesn't help when the firmware is closed. But, what about creating a screenreader as an app? The firmware supports apps...
The most accessible console world wide is the Apple tv. Lol. Seriously, there are already a ton of games out for it, and I should really look into that, especially when it has got better controller support in the new TV OS. I've only seen one accessible game, like usable with Voiceover, but that's for an other topic. smile

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2016-09-19 10:56:56

Hi.
Well, as long as we have an XMB with non wrapping menus and accessible game purchasing services, maybe just on the PC, I am happy with what we have now. For my personal preference, I don't need a screen reader for everything.
I am handling for example my PSP also pritty well with out a screen reader, even flashing that darn thing was a walk in the park.
So, as long as there are playable games out there, I am happy.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2016-09-19 13:30:35

Also, see my Soul Calibur, broken destiny plays on my let's play thread, which was abandoned because I wouldn't make let's plays of audio games, lol. Now if only I could find an app sound recorder for Windows.

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2016-09-19 14:02:00 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2016-09-19 14:08:17)

Assault_freak ADA actually doesn't cover it at all, it's another law called CVAA, which requires all communications technology (or communications elements of general purpose tech) to be accessible. Even PS4's limited text to speech covers much more than just navigating to and using communications (party chat etc), so they obviously can't only be interested in compliance.

So is amount of the OS that's covered the only thing that would be better about licensing an existing screen reader? There isn't anything else, like quality of voices, configuration options etc. that would be better too?

I have to ask because I'm not a day to day screen reader user myself. I have screen reader training and use a screen reader for work for doing accessibility audits etc, but my understanding is at that kind of level, enough to understand the big issues, barriers etc, but not more subtle differences between screen readers that make life a bit easier or more frustrating when encountered all the time.

Porting things across platforms doesn't mean a full rewrite, it's less time and money to do that than to write something from scratch.

SLJ Being able to write apps doesn't help, those apps need to have low level access to the rest of the system. For example both Android and iOS have apps, but while you can write your own screen reader app for Android, you cannot for iOS. Same deal with consoles, they're locked down, same deal as with what you said about firmware.