2008-10-20 23:03:24

(Also goes by the name 'wine' under linux, but I figured more of us who don't use windows would likely be using the mac rather than linux)

Darwine, a project for intel macs based on wine, seeks to provide an API completely compatible with the windows API including DirectX. It's mainly used to play Windows games under unsupported operating systesms by those who do use it.  I've ben fiddling around with the 1.0 release candidate under OS X Leopard, and after much registration of DLLs and other obscure files, I've finally gotten an audiogame working 100% under Mac OS X -- the game in question is Super Deekout.  It's a little laggy, and the coins sound aliased and weird, but it is playable.  I think some of the lag is due to my not being able to run the graphical configuration problem without sighted assistance (I'd've gotten some, but I don't have a monitor handy).

I've tried running other programs on it; NVDA (free windows screenreader) spoke for a split second before crashing with some obscure error, and the JFW installer worked before JAWS called a dozen unimplemented functions regarding the keyboard or something. I'm disappointed that I couldn't get NVDA working, because it would really make agreeing to licenses during installation of games a lot easier, and would mean I don't have to install a game on my windows machine so that I can copy it over and hope that all the needed components are available and registered.  I might ask the NVDA developers about Wine compatability; it would be awesome to have a free desktop system like Linux with Gnome with the ability to run several common windows apps  (wine can run office successfully from what I read) legally and for free.

I doubt many others will have feedback or interest in this, as I think most of us are almost-exclusive windows users, but I figured I'd give it a shot. Plus I'm extatic after finally getting something working.

Postscript: after rereading it I apparently wrote "wine configuration problem" rather than "wine configuration program." Haha how appropriate. Damn thing.

James

2008-10-21 17:20:42

Actually I'm quite interested, though if I was going to go for anything other than Windows it would indeed be Linux. I'm afraid as I've expressed previously I don't trust Apple's closing out all other access software on the Mac platform.

I presume this is emulation of the OS, and thus doesn't require a Windows license or install? Hmm. Tricky, especially how closely Microsoft guards information like that.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-10-22 02:35:06 (edited by ItsAConspiraZ 2008-10-22 02:44:47)

The wine team wrote open source replacements for most of the windows components, but you can use native windows dlls if you choose; in fact you have to to play most games which use the VB runtime (l-works, bsc, gma etc). A lot of these files have to be copied over manually and "registered" with the regsvr32 tool which comes with wine (for all intentes and purposes the same as regsvr32.exe for windows) because installers for the VB runtime crash inexplicably and it is difficult to run most ssetup programs and selecting the correct options (even though I memorized access keys for each). MS has been surprisingly silent regarding most of this; the one exception I know of is not certifying wine as "genuin windows software" thus not allowing download and installation of some windows update software from their site.  Windows has been in such heavy usage for so long that the API is well-known, so a lot of it has probably been written by those who use it most.

I have beef with you and your dislike of apple for closing out other access technology on their platform mainly because I, nor most people in my opinion would want to use more than one access solution at any given time. Everyone pays for one look and feel and one way of navigating the system, so why should it be different for us? I have a lot to say on this matter, but I'll save it for another topic (or private banter).

I got a few more games semi-working since yesterday; Change Reaction demo works well, and a registered copy of DynaMan plays well despite stalls for about 20 seconds when loading a level or using a warp to another grid.  Shades of Doom works ok until you come within using distance of an object and hear the tripple beep when the arrow keys stop working for no definable reason. THe safest way to avoid this is to open doors from a distance. There are still odd glitches; monsters aren't always audible, and something is broken in wine's algorithm to change the frequency/pitch of the sound making the night scope sound odd and distorted.  Anyone using a Mac or Linux might want to play with this (I think we have at least one here), mainly so I can see how far you get.

James

2008-10-22 15:44:04

My problem is I don't trust Apple's intentions, pure and simple. That's the biggest part of it. I just don't trust a company like them to keep supporting it, and to be responsive to us.

Companies like FS, GW and Dolphin rely on us so one way or another they win or lose based on how they deal with the VI market. It isn't going to be a substantial impact to Apple if they suddenly decide they can't be bothered, or to make what they think we should have not what we want or need. Whether you hate or love the assistive tech companies this is a simple truth, we're their life blood whereas Apple would barely blink at the loss of our business. This would give us no fall back.

In an ideal world yes one interface would be fine, but this isn't an ideal world. I'll note that the existence of Windows, Mac OS, and Linux with no fewer than at least two GUIs shows that the mainstream have choice in interface as well. The fact that they're tied to a particular platform is just an additional complexity, some people buy for the platform some for the interface. Lack of competition is something I personally see as a risk too, giving greater chance of the above mentioned loss of interest. I don't like relying on a single company or organisation.

Hope that clarifies my position some. As I said it's simply concern and lack of trust in a single entity to produce a quality screen reader package, and to continue to do so over an extended period of time.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-10-22 20:02:33

I have played with Voice over some, and I'll have to agree with you on your point of view CX. The main reason why I went with Windows visto over mack and the OSX is do to the fact that I need to think more on getting the work done over how or if I I can. My laptop did come with lots of crapware and VO is belt in to mac along with the mac appears to be a good media centor, plus me Owning A Ipod, wil make some think that I would go with a mac, but that's a little off topic. aint it? Oops, just a little to far. Glad to hear you got it working, and I do understand why more might go with a mac. Just don't know what I will go with when I go for a new computer, but XP is doing OK on my desktop, wich is running along smoothly, like a new plane in flight with nothing but clear skys and nothing in sight. Just please keep us up to date?

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
DropBox Referral

2008-10-22 23:01:20

How do you use this, if JAWS or NVDA don't work? Voice over?

Regards,
Mike
Co-Founder, RS Games
www.rsgames.org

2008-10-23 10:17:38

I presume the idea is that it's for playing audio games which self voice. Of course this is a bit clunky with installs and everything.

Let me know if I got it wrong.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-01-25 21:52:36 (edited by ItsAConspiraZ 2009-01-25 21:55:55)

Hi again.

Setting up games can be a little frustrating.  Normally one should run the installation program, but since we can no longer use them (since NVDA doesn't work) it can be a little trying.  Some work fine after several contiguous presses of the enter key, while some have some license agreement which involves checking buttons or some other thing.  I've tried access keys (memorized from using windows) but no dice for some reason.  I've needed my windows ins tall anyway for some crucial files (msvbvm60.dll, dx8vb.dll) which are usually not installed by the games themselves and listed as requirements (VB Runtimes, DirectX).  Some developers have started to use talking installs, and those work perfectly under wine.

I've had a lot more luck with wine under linux.  SOD had the same problems, but I was able to get some lworks games up and running, those being Super Egg Hunt and The Great Toy Robbery (though they are betas; I haven't tried the versions on the site).  Judgment day doesn't work thanks to an incomplete implementation of directshow (which is used to play the cutscenes and music).  Sapi5 doesn't wnat to work or install, so klango and other games which use it don't work.  I've read that there is a way to get sapi working, so I am not giving up.

Oops, almost forgot:

Technoshock plays the intro sound and menu noises, under Linux but doesn't respond to a single key.  It doesn't do anything on the Mac (in fact I think it exits with a stack trace).  WHYYYYYYY?!

James