2015-05-30 22:46:33

https://youtu.be/Z-0BaXqrnZk

2015-05-30 22:49:45 (edited by Saiyan4414 2015-05-30 22:54:05)

Is there any way anyone can help, and would you be willing to support me in a petition?

2015-05-30 23:07:55

I think you need to first off change the title, since you're refering specifically to pokemon so should make that clear rather than making Nintendo products accessible as a whole, which is something different. And the ps4's tts feature currently doesn't even support games, or even the ps4's system interface, only messages and group party chats. You should also mention more to do with how this will be implemented... since it's not exactly wise to say cheap and cost efficient if you can't explain how much, or little, manpower is needed to make this work. And the truth is... accessible pokemon games wouldn't increase sales by that large of a margin. There are fewer blind gamers than people think. But having said all that, that was only meant as suggestions and I will of course support if this goes anywhere! smile

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-05-31 00:44:29

As much as I hate to be a bit of a wet blanket here I think this request, although laudable, is unrealistic. For one thing to implement text to speech on the Wii, Wii-U,, 3DS, etc the console would have to be totally redesigned and the software added to the new consoles something that is not going to be cheap or inexpensive. Plus assuming Nintendo went ahead and did this the companies who make the games are not going to want to update their games to add that one specific feature as the number of sales of Pokemon etc isn't going to be enough to cover the cost of paying their development teams to add said feature. So financially all around your request is a huge loss for the companies involved. Bottom line if you can't show the companies it is worth their time, as in millions of dollars of sales, they will completely ignore you.

I would also like to point out that regarding the PS4 Assault is absolutely correct. The new TTS feature  in the PS4 isn't currently being used in games, the system interface or anything else useful. It is mainly used for messages and party chats which is not at all what you are asking for. So you need to be more clear and specific about TTS being a part of the game/games rather than the way it has been implemented in the PS4, because as it stands now TTS on the PS4 is almost next to useless. Not the best example you want to give to Nintendo etc since your aim is to have it work with games not the messages and chat system.

Sincerely,
Thomas Ward
USA Games Interactive
http://www.usagamesinteractive.com

2015-05-31 02:05:31

@tward Nintendo doesn't need a total redesign of it's consoles to implement  tts features for their system.
Wii is an outdated system, and talk about it don't make scense. But about wii u and 3ds is totally plausible.
Nintendo only have to make a update for these system, implementing this system, and add to it's sdk a new namespace with the functions to comunicate the games with this tts system.
Currently, a lot of system features nintendo have available to games can consume it, like miiverse, amiivos, nfc, and more other system features, that the games can acces only implement some interfases and libraries in their codes.

For tts, its the same. For games that currently exist, is hmm harder to implement new speetch system, but... if nintendo have a tts system, for the new pokemon games implement a little option to send to the tts all of text of the game, is very very simple.

Respect the title, of course it talks about the accesibility in pokemon games, not about all  nintendo system, but well.

Don't say that is a impossible feature to be implemented, or that is a expensive characteristic for these enterprises. Migrate an exist and opensource TTS isn't hard, and develop a dynamic library to consume this feature isn't hard.

2015-05-31 02:26:15

yeah. I'm thinking that if TTS can actually be added to these systems, blind developers can actually start coding games for these systems--or, even sited people can code accessible games for them, I think it would be a useful feature all around.

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2015-05-31 11:43:15

I think you guys who assume writing a tts engine or update is simple need to recheck the facts. You have no way of what the internal nintendo console OS is, what type of system it is, and whether it even has enough room for something like TTs. I'm not a programmer by any means, but I know that if a system isn't built with a specific feature in mind, there may not be enough room in the original source code to add that new feature without having to reinspect every line of code and make sure it works with it, so basically rewiring the whole system... and game companies will never do it, if you can't show them it's worth their time and money to do. I also hate to be a wet blanket, but these are facts I believe need to be addressed. Sony is going in a starting direction with adding tts with party chat messages, and you can be assured that this feature was already being thought about a long time ago, otherwise they wouldn't've just released a minor update with that feature included. Also remember that not all games are coded the same way. Take a PC, for example. even on PC, where there is an established speech platform, no mainstream games will ever have text read aloud unless that is specifically coded, because that just isn't what they're designed with in mind. So I agree with Tom. While the request is a good one, you have to be much more diligent in showing Nintendo or whatever other company that somethign so expensive and time consuming would be worth their efforts, and can't talk about libraries and adding tts code without giving clear and specific examples.

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-05-31 18:39:48

Not to mention, the pokemon games ahve been accessible since the very beginning, have been playing since red and blue in 1998.

Take care, it's a desert out there.

2015-05-31 23:08:03

@Sanslash332, I didn't say adding TTS was impossible merely was pointing out that it would be unlikely and implausible for Nintendo to do so without some extremely convincing reasons to do so. I don't know what your experience is with the tech industry, programming, etc but I can't help but feel as though you gravely underestimate the costs and work involved in carrying out your requests. It may not be as simple or as easy as you claim.

For example, you mention open source TTS systems. The problem is that open source software such as Espeak have restrictions that prevents it from being used in a commercial product. So Nintendo can't just grab something like Espeak which is licence by the GPL and port it to the 3DS or Wii-U without violating the software's license agreement. So it would not be an option for them.

So if we consider the fact that the open source solutions such as FreeTTS, Espeak, and Festival are all off limits for a commercial developer like Nintendo that means they have to put the time and money into developing their own TTS engine and voices. That is neither cheap or easy. Either that or they can contract with a company like Cepstral but would cost lots of money to license the technology. That's easier than developing their own TTS engine and voices, but probably much higher in cost.

Even assuming Nintendo went ahead and did that, something I find pretty unlikely, there is no absolute guarantee that a certain game developer will be willing to go back in and add it to the game you want. Most console game developers write the game, sell it, and forget about it. They aren't in the habit of releasing regular updates for their games, patching them, because it is assumed to be complete the moment it is released.. They are not likely to pay some employee to add TTS support to the game after the game was presumably completed and has been selling for weeks or months. How do you, a blind gamer, justify to the developer that it is worth their time and money to go back and update the game and resell it with this new update?

In short, while I agree with you that it is a good idea, I'd love to see these companies do this, I also believe it to be unrealistic. I have worked enough with software development and have talked with professionals in this field to know what you are asking for is beyond what these companies will be willing to do without a very convincing reason.

Sincerely,
Thomas Ward
USA Games Interactive
http://www.usagamesinteractive.com

2015-06-01 00:09:19

Tom, I agree with everything that you said except fr the developers forgetting about the games they sell. especially nowadays with modern consoles EG the ps3 and beyond, many developers still patch their games regularly. Not for years on end mind you, so the chances of accessibility being added to older games is near impossible. But contemporary game developers, particularly with fighting games, patch them all the time... as they find new balance and game tweeks that need to be adjusted, and downloadable content is now also a huge thing. So I wouldn't say developers tend to just sell a game then forget about it. but I know for sure I have les experience than you with the professional tech industry, since, well, I have had none... lol. So all this could just be a lot of hot air. hehe.

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-06-01 03:19:38

@Assault, as far as updating and patching games goes you may have a point considering newer platforms like the XBox One or Playstation 4 are much more open to that kind of thing than were prior generations of game consoles. I guess my comments above were aimed more at the industry as a whole and what has often been the case in the past.

For example, the game consoles and games my son and I have are outdated by today's standards. I still have a Playstation 2 and my son also has a Wii at his mom's house. Neither console is exactly new, and given certain limitations of them at the time usually when the game was released on disc there wasn't much new content or updates available since once the games came out they were considered more or less complete. However, now that the game consoles like Playstation 3, XBox 360, Playstation 4, and XBox One all have more in the way of downloadable content I guess I could see an update for TTS etc being offered through that method assuming the developer of said game could be convinced of the value of adding said feature in the first place. That, of course, is the problem.

New features like TTS might be able to be offered through downloads but if the developers aren't convinced that such a feature is necessary, feel it costs too much, or a hundred of other reasons its a mute point. So clearly coming up with some justification, financial or otherwise, should be the goal of anyone requesting text to speech to be added to their favorite consoles and games.

Sincerely,
Thomas Ward
USA Games Interactive
http://www.usagamesinteractive.com

2015-06-01 08:01:37

I definitely agree. and I think, the main reason this happened to games so much was because back in the days of the ps2, and to a certain extent the wii, there wasn't enough decent internet capability to be worth the trouble. The wii, while it was considered a sixth generation console, is certainy a step behind the ps3 and xbox360 in terms of hardware. But I still have my ps2... and still play it occasionally. Classics will always be classics, after all. I even have my original psx, which still works after all these years. But I agree with you about tts implementation being more of a matter of convincing the big companies that it's worth it, which will, realistically speaking, be very difficult... but with sony introducing accessibility for party chat and general game chat messages, let's see what comes in the future.

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-06-01 15:07:25

Well… I want continue with this discussion that is so fun, but currently I don’t have the time for that.
The only that I Can say, is:
1.    You really forget that the new systems are too much modular in their designs, and for that, implement new features like a tts in high level isn’t very hard, or expensive. Nintendo do this with a lot of features in the last months, including miiverse for 3ds (in the first version of it firmware it doesn’t have this functionality), amiivos for wii u, the fast shortcut menu for the gamepad in the wii u (This is a major redesign and their did with a simple patch!) and some other. Viewing this changes, really do you tthink that implement a tts is a hard issue?
2.    Referring the open source issue, well, not all is loose with this. Nintendo can made a free patch for tts systems, include it as an extra and optional module for their system, and for respect the open source issue, it can release it with the source of the module, or similar. Or… what, pay to nuanse, sepstral, or something different, I don’t think that is as expensive for a large company sutch is Nintendo. If sony currently implement the bases for this… Why Nintendo can’t do the same?
3.    Respecting the interest of companies for give support to their gamesfor accessibility, well, Netherealm studios do it. They released  a small patch to their game Injustice God Amon us, that give a small option to enable accessibility in battles. This small accessibility is a simple beep for indicate to the players when a throwable object is in front of them.
4.    This topic reduces a simply one thing. If the companies want to support us. If they want, they can do in a few months. If they don’t want, simply we’ve to wait for a long long time.