2015-01-21 15:29:21

Just because you can put anything at any angle, doesn't mean you do put anything at any angle.
Think Swamp or Shades of Doom: the map is really rectangular, but you can turn and walk at any angle, and so too can the enemies.  My current project loads the map from an array of tiles, compiles it into a set of boxes in ODE, and then enemies and you are just more ODE geometries.  I don't actually use the Physics part, just the collision piece.  In a setup like that, turning to 37 degrees is no big deal, and you can even simulate the ordinances themselves.  That is bullets and missiles and whatnot are actually moving objects, just like you.  You then throw the Swamp radar on it which, because it's ODE, you basically get for free-including detecting enemies in exactly the same manner as walls, if you want.
I'd have had this done over Christmas break, but it's also the testbed project for Libaudioverse; the purpose is to show me how to make Libaudioverse better.  To that end, I keep dropping it and fixing Libaudioverse bugs or making the interfaces more friendly, which isn't always trivial-my current rewrite will have Libaudioverse automatically doing the right thing in 75% of cases, replacing a great number of for loops and cutting down on the line count needed to use it by a lot, but basically involved gutting a quarter of the code.  If I didn't have 3D audio,, it'd be kind of pointless to simulate bullets and missiles and stuff, but I do so it's not.  You have to write all that code anyway if you want an FPS, you might as well leverage it for everything you can, and ODE makes it insultingly easy as compared to doing the same in BGT.

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2015-01-22 14:44:20

speaking of libaudioverse, will it be like a dll in c++ that you can include? That's what I assume but I just want be sure.

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2015-01-22 15:38:31

Yeah, it's a C DLL.  No, you won't be able to talk to it from BGT-or at least, not completely.  BGT doesn't let us bind function pointers, and so a lot of the intermediate to advanced features simply won't work.  I've got Python bindings currently and an entire infrastructure designed to let me add more quickly-just there's no point until it's stable.

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2015-05-09 04:58:11

Yes, I'm bringing this thread back. I made it, so I'm allowed to. smile

The reason I am bumping this thread back to the top of the forum is simple. I have an announcement to make.

I will admit I haven't gone very far into the Python tutorial recommended to me. Short answer, I got bored. So I started building maps in Tactical Battle that were based on my idea. I haven't gotten too far with them yet either, but I was actually doing something with my world. I was actually interacting with something tangible. That's what inspires me. I can sit here and imagine my eventual goal all I like, but imagining it endlessly does not motivate me to slog through basic programming. It just makes the goal seem farther away.

I was very apprehensive about going into details about the game on the Tactical Battle mailing list after the reception I got here, but I eventually did, and one of the guys on there linked me to this YouTube video, which basically validated my original point in this thread. It's really hard to learn something you're not excited about. I, personally, want to learn to build adventure RPGs similar to the third game in the BGT tutorials. And I, personally, need something tangible to test-run on a regular basis. If there are bugs, I'll learn how to fix them. If it takes me years, so be it. That's not the issue any more. As long as I have something to play that makes my eventual goal that bit more real to me, then I'll be inspired to keep going.

I'm almost sure that, unless anything else comes up, I'm going to start working with BGT again. I like BGT. I liked it when I first got it and I still like it now. I don't need graphics yet. I won't need them until the game's finished. Before then, I won't know exactly what graphics I'll need for the entire game, will I? Maybe I will leave it behind, but at least I'll be building something I enjoy and picking up on skills that will help me in the future while I'm doing it.

That's not to say the Python book hasn't helped me a bit. I need to get into the habit of hand-coding, and that's definitely something I'll be doing. I've been doing it with the TB maps as well. True, the process there is crazy simple, but it still helps.

I'll probably start asking questions over on the BGT forum again soonish. Either that, or I'll build in TB for a bit before getting stuck into proper game things again. My point is that I'm going to learn how to build the game I want to build, and have fun. That's the best motivator in my opinion.

2015-05-09 11:58:40 (edited by CAE_Jones 2015-05-09 11:59:09)

I'm glad that you're posting again!

Even after  10 years of programming, I have a hard time working on anything I can't constantly test, which is doubtless one of the reasons why very few of my bigger projects get made, and those that do are messy things like the JFIM Adventure.
My biggest breakthrough into audio games proper was the fighting engine seen in Jeqo Prime, because I deliberately went minimalist with it so I could toss it together and test it over a weekend. Then I got carried away making characters for it, until I had so many that I realized I should put them into actual games. Then I wound up with 6 games and two concept demos based on the same engine, because it stopped being programming and instead became a matter of character design.
It was 3.5 years before I got to that point, but I probably could have done it earlier if I hadn't been trying to focus on much harder things (that I'm still trying to focus on). Harder in the sense of my attention span can't keep up with my goals, not in the sense of being more difficult to code.

The truth is, though I started on simple text-based monstrosities when I was first learning programming, all this really meant is that I suddenly developed an interest in making text-based games set in my worlds. One of which turned into DLE, which underwent a major case of tserebus syndrome, which is why it's the only game I felt like there was any reason to commercialize. Which got me around 200 credits at 1soundfx, a sound library from the Hollywood Edge, and some software licenses. (None of this has been sufficient to replace the awful voices. I'll replace the awful terrain sounds when I can convince myself another project is ready for them.)

看過來!
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2015-05-09 14:08:48

Hi again Imaginatrix, glad to see you again! big_smile We'll be happy to answer to all your questions!

2015-05-12 08:37:18

@CAE_Jones:
I'm probably going to be using mostly placeholder sounds until such time as I can get a hold of a nice big sound library or two. Or twenty. big_smile As for voices...right now I'm considering just writing out scripted cutscenes for the screen-reader to recite when they're triggered. Braillemon did that. Braillemon was made in Game Maker, though, and I can't get that. *mutters about insane prices* It should be doable in BGT, though. Might have to write the function manually, but it should be doable.

2015-05-12 10:01:47

I never played to Braillemon, but I'm certain it's doable in BGT smile if you want any help, feel free to ask if you want to make something similar. But you should really work on the design and the gameplay, if it's bad, your game would just become a "bad braillemon replacement" smile

2015-05-12 10:09:25

Braillemon was also made by a sighted developer, and as far as I know game maker isn't accessible, even you get it. Just to keep things in mind. Glad you're having success with your projects smile

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2015-05-12 10:12:56

Game Maker (which doesn't exists anymore, it has been replaced by Game Maker Studio) isn't accessible, it's true. The main reason is simple, the map editor is graphic smile

2015-05-12 13:33:59

The need to be able to test something frequently to help motivate yourself is actually not uncommon amongst developers.  That is while something called "agile" and "test driven development" is popular with many developers.  For agile, the idea is to create a usable application or modify it in about a 2 to 4 week period of time.  This is possible because you limit yourself only to doing what is possible within that very limited time.  Test driven development is also popular for other reasons, but one side benefit of it is that you can always test your code--though you will likely only be testing a single function at a time.  It sounds like you have found the approach that works best for you.  Though I would like to offer a suggestion for your consideration.

It sounds like you have really fleshed out your game story and ideas quite well.  Coding is a difficult task, but designing the user interface and the game story and ideas is also difficult.  If you reach a point where you feel like you are not making as much progress as you want on your game, you might want to look for other experienced developers to work with you.  You then could serve as the over all game architect with the other developers helping you break down the game into pieces that could be coded in something like 2 to 4 weeks.  You could then work with them on the coding, which would also help you learn more about coding.  That might possibly help you turn more of your game into something playable and testable more quickly as well as help possibly accelerate your learning.Over time, you might bring in other people with other skills to help with the work and also provide you with additional people you can learn from.

If you decide you want to do something like that at some point, but feel uncertain how to get things going and structured, let me know and I would be willing to help out.  Others might also be willing to assist.

But again, this is only a suggestion to consider if you feel you want to make more progress on the game more quickly.

2015-05-12 14:14:52

@Genroa: My game's only similarity to Pokémon is that you can explore and you will often be ambushed by others seeking a fight. That's it. smile
@dhruv: Thanks for the clarification. I wouldn't have gotten it anyways—$800 is far more than I would be willing to pay for something I could get for free that would be accessible.

@Hector: I do indeed have a great deal of the plot laid out in my mind. I was going to write this as a novel series for ten years before I finally got the epiphany about it being far better suited to a game. I'd already been thinking about what a game based on this story would be like (and honestly, it's probably going to be a series of games with all the stuff I've come up with for this world over the years, plus an online version where you can customise your own character and go on unique adventures through the world in question), but with the tools at my fingertips, I now have to start thinking about what keys will do which things. Being that I've been exposed to plenty of console games in the sense that I've been present while my family played them, I had been thinking of my game being one for the XBox or Play Station or something like that. (Ambitious, I know but there you are. That's part of why I was after graphics eventually.) The upside to building it for a computer is you have more keys to work with. The downside is you have more keys to assign or not assign to certain things. I'll work with that once I've finished my refresher course in BGT. big_smile

I had considered that previously, yes. I would have to give it some very serious thought before bringing others into the fold, however. Everyone here has their own projects and their own lives, and much as I would appreciate the help, I don't want to give the impression I'm expecting more from the other parties than they could give. I'm also, admittedly, rather paranoid when it comes to my story and its setting, characters and such. I'm a writer first and plagiarism is something I've been wary of since I came online and started posting to writing sites, mostly fanfiction since, as I said, I'm very protective of my original works. I hope none of you take offense at this, and this doesn't mean I'm not going to ask for help. It just means I'd have to think about it very carefully before I did and I'd need to know for sure I could trust the other person/people involved.
That went on a bit, haha.

2015-05-12 15:28:02

You don't want to pay for a program to build games, but you want to create Playstation and XBox games? XD Do you know how much the development kit costs for each console? I'm sorry to say that, but forget it.

2015-05-12 17:35:21

It's not that I don't want to pay, it's that I can't. Right now. Things might be different further down the road. And people use computers more these days anyhow.

2015-05-12 19:25:01

Sorry, that's what I was willing to say : it's very expensive smile  but I didn't understand the "keys" problem

2015-05-17 14:47:21

Unfortunately, the only way to keep anyone from plagiarizing your story would be by keeping it to yourself.  However, if you want to protect your story in a way that allows you legal recourse if others plagiarize it, you will want to read up on copyrighting and licensing.  I've also participated in some board game beta testing and the game authors frequently require participaants to sign documents that make them legally liable for sharing information about the game prior to release.  SO those are options you might want to consider as well if you decide you want to create a team to assist you in coding the game design.  However, you are right that when you do want to pull together a team, you will want possibly to interview those people and check up on them to make sure they are the type of people who would be willing to follow whatever requirements you set for the project.

2015-05-18 19:05:45

I'm not sure I can manage anything like that right now. For one thing, copyrighting something requires something tangible to protect, and that, sadly, I don't have, unless you count the first (very very rough) drafts of the manuscripts of one and a half books which I wrote before I decided to skip the novelling and get straight to the gaming.
I did consider beta testing my game on here once there was enough of it to play, but I'm still on the fence about that, and it does require me to have something to test. It would be nice if someone who had lots of experience with BGT could help me out with my idea, but I'm not going to get my hopes up, and I still do have to trust them. I trust some of the guys on the Tactical Battle mailing list but none of them use BGT. sad

2015-05-19 03:39:36

Why not learn bgt yourself? I would never use bgt myself, but it could be a good fit for your needs.

2015-05-22 12:32:12

That's precisely what I'm doing right now. smile I have no problem pulling my own weight to get this done. What I meant above was that if someone wanted to help me, they'd need to also work with BGT so they could add their improvements to my code. Of course, if I was at the stage where I wanted graphics, meaning I had a complete game with so few bugs I'd missed them during my hundreds of test playthroughs, and the only way to get the kind of graphics I wanted was to ask someone else to build my game in an appropriate program, that might be another story, but I might not even do it that way.