2014-04-19 22:18:07

Hi all,

If you've played alter for any amount of time over the past year or so you may have heard talk of this Stellar Aeon thing. Basically from what I know of it, Dentin is going to take the systems of alter aeon and make a space system out of it, make the game generate and destroy planets at will, since there will theoretically be no builders.
What I'm curious about is if there will be player spaceships you can get at the beginning of the game or whether that'll be a high level thing. also, a space based game with the kind of Multiclassing that Alter aeon has? I don't know about you, but that sounds great to me.
also since Dentin wants to make the game fully aotmated where he doesn't have to staff it with anyone while it creates content on it's own, makes me wonder how quests will work?

2014-04-20 08:15:44

wow! steller aeon? that would be really great because alter in the traditional fantasy setting is all ready such a great thing and a space setting would seriously top it. it'd be nothing like the kosmos copies I guess. but I am also consurned about quests. would they always change between people? oh yes, and if planets destroy and generate each other, won't that affect, say the newbie planets? think of newbies without spaceships and then the planet just gets removed from the game? and the newbie camp would need to randomly spawn, which will make it harder for newbs to find it.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2014-04-20 08:23:10

It'll probably be procedurally generated content - mobs, starsystems, and quests. E.G there is a bounty on ship xxx.

2014-04-20 10:53:43

I'm rather looking forward to it myself, as someone who loves exploring I've always wanted to play a space mud, but sinse one thing I've not found yet is a decent space mud with a pvp opt out option, heck even wayfare doesn't have one. I believe this is why Dentin is thinking of the procedurially  generated world so that people will always have more space to explore, though whether such generation will be used for all in game elements I'm not sure, for example it'd be a bit dire if you started the game and could only find level 30 planets and enemies around you.

I'm also not sure if jsut because it will feature auto quests and missions this means there won't be any building at all, either way it's something I'm really looking forward to.

Btw, interestingly enough, explorable randomly generated wilderness and auto generated missions are for me the one thing that is lacking in alteraeon, sinse it makes grinding and exploring a lot more interesting if your wandering into a huge area not knowing what you might find, or continually getting random targets of little jobs, even basic mob kill type ones, as opposed to just running into the same areas again and again to slaughter the same mobs until your high enough level to move somewhere tougher.

For all  I had issues withh materiamagica (especially how you could become too higher level for quests), this was one aspect it had that I thought was good.

We'll see however, both what happens with stelereaon, and where alteraeon goes in the future, indeed I'm rather enjoying being back on alteraeon myself at the moment.

Of course the only slight downer with steleraeon is that we won't get mushZ for it's great soundscape, music and handy shortcuts which definitely enhance the playing of alter, indeed I tend to think that when playing with MushZ Alteraeon is pretty close to being a full audio rpg.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-04-20 18:01:34

Yeah, I'd imagine Dentin would do something about newbie areas, he just doesn't seem the kind of person to throw newbies out in the deep. Not after I've seen what he's done to alter. I played real briefly back in 06, and boy was it different. I felt lost from the moment I started. But its changed so much. I could be completely wrong of course, but still it sounds interesting.

2014-04-20 18:43:32

I don't know what real is, but I do also have confidence in Dentin's design. One thing he might do which materiamagica had with their wilderness was have the procedural generation specific to areas. So for example you have a level 1-10 star system, a level 10-20 etc. All of the content in those star systems is of a given level so you always know where youa re.

The one thing that concerns me with that sort of system is that it can lead to a situation where progress sort of doesn't mean anything sinse practically the elements used to create lower level areas are the same as the ones used to create higher level areas, for example you might fight a blackstar spacepirate ship at level 5, and then get the  same ship with the same description and abilities crop up at level 15, just with higher combat stats.

Then again a simple way around this is to level limit the elements that can be used in creating different areas, say making the black star only crop up in level 1-10 star systems so that you don't fight it again later.

Another concern I do have is additions to the game in terms of abilities, areas, elements added to the random generator etc. Sinse even the biggest set of random generators might need some more ingredients added to the mix occasionally, which could be difficult if there aren't going to be any area builders or people to maintain the mud on an ongoing basis.

However he manages it though, I do have infinite confidence in Dentin's ability with the game design, heck he's done a good enough job with the alter mechanics.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-04-21 00:43:06

I'm eagerly awaiting this one. Sounds like great fun smile

Master Rahl guide us. Master Rahl teach us. Master Rahl protect us. In your light we thrive. In your mercy we are sheltered. In your wisdom we are hummbled. We live only to serve. Our lives are yours.

2014-04-21 08:34:52

yeah, I also think it sounds good. about the mush z thing, I guess the developers will also try and make another mush z add on for steller aeon. reguardless, I'd play it without add on or with one. accept, of corse if the combat is so fast paist that I can only keep up with it with sounds like miriani or star conquest or stuff like that.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2014-04-21 10:49:25

I don't know if oriol will create another mushZ for stelleraeon, sinse he already has a huge amount of work maintaining the mushZ for alter and goodness knows what kinds of rewrites a new MushZ would require even from the same developer as Alteraeon, though we'll see, sinse it might turn out at least some of the code is transferrable.

Still if nothing else the thing will always be playable with standard interpreters like vipmud.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-04-21 14:39:15

Hi,
I'd imagine that the mush-z stuff will be transferable as all it requires is triggers, and analysis of the in-game text, plus of course, some new sounds. I will ask and see if he may consider it, as I think it'll make it very cool indeed.

2014-04-21 14:46:28

the problem is combat. what if it is sort of like miriani or star conqu wall est? there you need to be very fast, aspecially if you are the pilot. I mean in those games if you don't keep moving, the enemy is going to get hits in. and the only way I know of doing that as a blind person whose screen reader, no matter how fast can't keep up if there isn't a spam filter and or sounds, is to use a spam filter and or sounds.

I used to be a knee like you, then I took an adventurer in the arrow.

2014-04-21 15:50:28

@Aaron well we'll have to see when the game is actually developed. Even if it is a case of changing triggers and sounds there are likely to be lots of them, of types that don't occur in alteraeon. and will need custom adding, heck if you just look at the alteraeon changelog you can see how much work Oriol has put into things, so we'll just have to see on that one.

@Conner, one thing which will be true with pvp in steleraeon is that it will be opt in only as I said, so as long as your fast enough to take out npcs that shouldn't make a difference, though i suspect with the great spam filters that alteraeon already has as a default there will be similar spam filters for the space game, heck we don't even know what kind of combat mechanics the game will have anyway indeed I would myself appreciate a little news from Dentin of what the game is actually going to contain rather than going on a lot of random speculations, sinns.
About the only thing I do know about Steleraeon is that it is being build from the ground up by Dentin, as opposed to using any of the standard codebases that miriani or other space games use.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-04-23 13:31:20

so this game is like miriani? Do it have guns for the weapons? Do it also have aliens to kill and missions like salvaging, mail delivery, passenger transporting, etc?

going in to the wilds, collecting pokedex, and capturing them are my kind of thing,
training them, making them evolve, and generally making them stronger is my ultimate goal,
fighting other manamon tamers, winning the tournament, and fighting octoros are what these manamons like to do,
and ultimately, I become the master of mana!

2014-04-23 16:04:00

No ideas what the game will have yet Hanif. All I know is that it's being developed by Dentin, founder and main developer of Alteraeon, and is to have a random generation system of some sort as well as a full scale spaceflight. Actually some words about the game from Dentin would be appreciated.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-04-23 17:51:56

Stellar Aeon isn't very far along at this point:

- star systems are up and working, with a home galaxy a few thousand light years across
- basic ships are able to explore and check things out
- part of the account system is built and working

At the moment, the big emphasis is on the account system, as I'm working on that for Alter Aeon and several other projects combined.

Regarding future features of SA, all that I'm willing to say right now is that PvP will probably only be done via combat simulators at a starbase.  I almost certainly won't allow open piracy.

2014-04-23 18:45:08

and you have my interest already with that lack of pvp  not to mention my favourite  word in game terms exploration :d.

I am interested to know how much the exploration elements go, for example whether it is possible to land on planets walk around and explore them as well as explore space, whether you plan   ground and space combat and what sort of missions  you have in mind, but   as things are still in development I'm  happy to wait and see, though I'll certainly be trying this one as soon as their is something ready.

Sinse the last I heard about stellar aeon was a discussion about space flight, 3D coordinates and muds on the audeasy list a couple of years ago from my perspective it sounds like things are developing quite well if you've already got a space strcture that can be explored, working flight and some basic ships, though obviously there is still more to add.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-05-11 01:06:27

What are some of the classes? One I would like to see is a hacking class the ability to work with computers and other forms of tech. But I can't wait until this comes out.

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2015-05-11 09:21:02

Only the fact that PVP isn't a part of the game have already got me very interested in the game. big_smile

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2015-05-11 14:57:54

@Slj, as I said, those were the things that interested me too, lack of pvp and lots of exploring. I've not heard anything else about the game's further development outside this topic from last year, but knowing Dentin things are probably still chugging along and we'll hear all about it when it's ready.



@hhurstseth405, I don't know what Dentin plans for classes in the game or in fact if he plans any at all. Even if he id I would hope he has a similar model to alter where your classes are more like priorities, so you always have choice in what you do.

If you want to play a computer hacker, you should try wayfar144, it's got lots of things to hack, various hacker skills and even a way of finishing a turn aroun the game as the hacker profession. You can find alien artifacts and lost datachips in the wilderness to hack, and even hack into vehicles and bases by hacking the door's entry codes though you nee to be careful and purchice good gear or otherwise the security of whatever your hacking might zap you with electricity.

There is the potential to hack into someone else's vehicle or building and steal it, though Wayfar1444 is one of those odd games where pvp exists, but doesn't seem to be practiced too much.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-05-11 16:01:04

There are no classes.  It's not a traditional mush or moo - you don't just control a single character.  Your account is kinda like a small company that can buy and sell ships, and have crew members that you can train and assign to ships.

Some of the more recent updates were to add basic starports and ship cargo/inventory.  I'm currently working on ship configurations and hull types at the moment, which is needed to allow for things like engine upgrades and extra cargo pods.

2015-05-11 17:58:17

Wow Dentin, this is souning awsome! I very much look forward to trying it. One question on crew management though. I've always fancied to actually physically run a crew on a starship and deal with things like tention between two crew members or crew members having different priorities, however in the few accessible space games that have crew, crew is basically treated like an extra statistic to manage.

For example, in Smugglers marines and pirates add to your crew's boarding and crew combat stats, while crewmen and officers help you fly the ship, however all pretty much are bought like an extra equip upgrade and once paid for don't really need worrying about accept replacing when they die. In star traders your crew are a little better sinse they do have a morale stat, and if this gets too low they'll mutany, however in practice this doesn't mean much and so long as you make sure to have some luxury rations on your ship, not run out of fuel, and pay for some entertainment for the crew in spice halls nothing that bad happens, heck you can even pirate other ships an press gang their crews into service on yours, and while this will initially hit your morale it can be made okay with a good night in the spice hall, which is craaaazy!

I'd love to see a situation where you actually had crew with a bit more personality, like maybe you had someone who was a brilliant engineer, but erratic and caused accidents so you had the choice to promote her or not, or someone who had been assigned to maintenance but he wanted to be a targeting oficer, so requested a transfer, or maybe two crew who had a fued and so needed separating onto different stations, or indeed two crew who wanted to get married and work together and threatened to leave unless you assigned them the same duties.

I've always thought that would be the appealing part of being on a starship, sinse fundamentally you'd be stuck with a bunch of people who were stuck together in rather close quarters for long periods and hell the tentions would need some careful handling.

I don't even imagine this would be that tough to do mechanics wise, just have each crew member have a tention/happiness stat which collectively affect the hole crew, and have od events crop up which trigger changes in that stat from time to time depending upon how you deal with them, and obviously a happy crew works better at everything while a tense or unhappy one does not.

Hay if this isn't planned for the game or possible with current mechanics fare enough, it's just that much as I've really wanted to see a space exploration game, I've always thought all! aspects of exploring and managing a starship were interesting including how this affects the crew.

Btw For a fantastic account of this sort of thing, check out the solar clipper series by Nathan Lowel, they're both printed books and available as free podcast novels here and are basically the adventures of a man who signs up to be an officer on a cargo freighter, trading on various spaceports. Though there are certainly crysese, there is no big space war or alien encounters or whatever, just the story of a man getting on with his life in a quite extraodinary, though often not very glammerous way (he actually begins in the ship's galley).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-05-11 20:58:57

I haven't really thought about crew management beyond the super simple 'treat them like statistics' model you talk about.  I could certainly do the things you're talking about, and will throw them into my ideas pile.

2015-05-11 21:15:37

Ah, glad you liked the thought. One thing I've found in several games (most recently with an economic sim), is it is much more fun dealing with unpredictable things and making judgements than just coldly running the stats, plus of course it gives a far better idea that the characters your managing in the game on your crew are real people, and not just extra adds to your main stats that cost a certain amount, or produce a set amount or are just canon fodder to throw at your enemies and replace each time they go down.

A dark room made this point rather nicely, given that at the start of the game you build huts to attract setlers who constantly produce more resources such as wood and animal pelts and are listed as "x number of villagers",
Then, rather abruptly when you've built a couple of huts the "x number of villagers" suddenly changes to "X number of slaves" along with a few short but affective messages about the people working. Apparently some players put the game down at that point, I personally found it a rather clever one (and an important lesson for real life in terms of turning people into rore statistics).

It's odd, you can simulate quite complex behaviours with interactions of very few stats in any system that has a limited time aspect, the choiceofgames with their distinct choices and percentile stats show that, but I don't know why more games involving any style of management do it.

Either way, if this sort of thing makes it into stellar aeon I'll be very pleased, and if not, ---- well hay I can just pretend i'm Captain Picard and so all my crew think I'm awsome anyway! big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2015-05-11 23:29:58

It's not that - I actually dislike the idea at a personal level, because I'm very introverted and consider interpersonal drama to be inefficient and a waste of time.  In my ideal world and on my ideal ship, everyone works together and people aren't idiots.

However, I know a good gameplay idea when I see it, and that overrides my feelings on the matter.  This sort of thing could add a lot of interesting complexity if done right.

2015-05-12 06:12:54

Well glad you liked the  idea, as I said it's something I've been wanting to see, particularly in a space game for quite some time. Oddly enough,  despite being a card carrying intravert myself, I actually think in a way being able to sort out the human problems satisfactorally is in a sense more utopian in some ways than just pretending your crew are happy drones.

After all in reality if you were! in charge of a group of people, how much by way of rules and regulations, alliances from bosses, little cleaques and what my brother refers to as bolitics, (a mixture of politics and a word that rhymes with trolocs), would you need to go through? Where as in a game, you can be the absolute super leader of doom and act on your decisions to sort out all the problems, and when your super crew take down a pirate ship or explore a new asteroid, you know it's not just because of your abilities with blasting and tech and exploring, it's also that you've been such a great leader!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)