2015-04-06 17:07:58

Hi all,
As the subject says. If you'd like more and more games appear on an accessible platform, please sign this. Every signature counts! We have reached out to game developers, it's now time to do the same with Valve Corporation!
https://www.change.org/p/valve-corporat … red-people

Rob

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Robjoy, AKA Erion
Visit my site for all the things I do and to contact me.
You can also stop by for a slice of Pi

2015-04-06 17:26:55

Hi.
Very nice. I've just signed, hoping that'll make any positive changes. big_smile

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2015-04-07 10:56:16

Hello,
I have signed this. Also, ther's now a second topic on this forum with the petition in there as well, so it's spreading.

2015-04-07 13:27:19

Hey,
I signed last night, and am spreading the word! I sort of spread it too well, and create a second topic here, because I couldn't see yours initially. Sorry about that! smile

I like to fly! I especially like to fly passed burning debris! wait, that's me isn't it. how unfortunate.
Hit me up on skype!
powergamer8

2015-04-07 16:04:09 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2015-04-07 16:13:45)

The petition only mentions the steam client.

Would it not be worth mentioning the steam site too? Fixing the accessibility issues with the site would be much easier for them to do than the client, it would be a great first step.

2015-04-07 20:09:49

No. The sight is no problem for me. Its the client that's our main concern here. As the client is probably used a lot more, it'd be worth fixing that first. And they better listen to us this time. If they don't, they're in for one living hell that I'm sure not only I will raise. They're disobeying the ADA (Americans Disablitieis Act) and the Rehabilitation Act of 2007, section 508.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-04-07 20:11:34

Yeah... I would say the client is more the priority as well. But even if they don't listen to us, there isn't much to be done. They aren't the only company who's violating the ADA right now... I doubt you'll get far with trying to raise anything against a corporation that big.

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-04-08 03:21:43

Oh. And who else is breaking the ADA and Rehab act?

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-04-08 10:44:58

For one, Spotify, although I've heard they are trying to fix that now, but I wish that NVDA could get proper support for the windows version, or all screen readers for that matter. On Mac and iOS they seem to be working on the accessibility with VoiceOver.
Anyhow, back to Steam, I hope that Robjoy will remember to use change dot org's update system and keep us posted. I'm surprised he didn't post anything about reaching a hundred supporters.

2015-04-08 18:58:38

Any of the big name companies that produce digital music equipment... line 6, roland, yamaha, etc. Keyboards and guitar boards have no sort of accessibility whichever way you spin it, as much as I hate that. Sony also hasn't followed it until the ps4, as their audio systems and accompanying apps aren't always accessible. Those are just a few examples... and I'm sure there are a few more. I didn't say that to contradict you, just that the ADA isn't the foolproof way of guaranteeing accessibility in every single product we come across.

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-04-08 22:42:55

I know that. But still. Its time to step up acessibility in all programs which need it now, guys. And if we don't, who will?

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-04-08 23:15:23

I definitely agree with you. It definitely has to start somewhere... and things are starting to happen. Just don't expect too much change to come too quickly. smile

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-04-09 16:08:10

Although ADA title III is relevant, section 508 is not, they are in fact not making any kind of a breach of it.

Section 508 only applies to federal bodies, not the private sector.

2015-04-09 19:17:16

What do the respective titles and sections say? I haven't actually read them... and I'm in Canada, so not sure what our equivalent is.

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-04-10 02:05:57 (edited by Ethin 2015-04-10 02:10:12)

Hi,
Section 508 states the following (directly sourced and copied from the rehabilitation act):
Sec. 508. Electronic and Information Technology

(a) Requirements for Federal Departments and Agencies

(1) Accessibility

(A) Development, procurement, maintenance, or use of electronic and information technology

When developing, procuring, maintaining, or using electronic and information technology, each Federal department or agency, including the United States Postal Service, shall ensure, unless an undue burden would be imposed on the department or agency, that the electronic and information technology allows, regardless of the type of medium of the technology 

(i) individuals with disabilities who are Federal employees to have access to and use of information and data that is comparable to the access to and use of the information and data by Federal employees who are not individuals with disabilities; and

(ii) individuals with disabilities who are members of the public seeking information or services from a Federal department or agency to have access to and use of information and data that is comparable to the access to and use of the information and data by such members of the public who are not individuals with disabilities.

(B) Alternative means efforts

When development, procurement, maintenance, or use of electronic and information technology that meets the standards published by the Access Board under paragraph (2) would impose an undue burden, the Federal department or agency shall provide individuals with disabilities covered by paragraph (1) with the information and data involved by an alternative means of access that allows the individual to use the information and data.

(2) Electronic and information technology standards

(A) In general

Not later than 18 months after the date of enactment of the Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1998, the Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (referred to in this section as the "Access Board"), after consultation with the Secretary of Education, the Administrator of General Services, the Secretary of Commerce, the Chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, the Secretary of Defense, and the head of any other Federal department or agency that the Access Board determines to be appropriate, including consultation on relevant research findings, and after consultation with the electronic and information technology industry and appropriate public or nonprofit agencies or organizations, including organizations representing individuals with disabilities, shall issue and publish standards setting forth 

(i) for purposes of this section, a definition of electronic and information technology that is consistent with the definition of information technology specified in section 5002(3) of the Clinger Cohen Act of 1996 (40 U.S.C. 1401(3)); and

(ii) the technical and functional performance criteria necessary to implement the requirements set forth in paragraph (1).

(B) Review and amendment

The Access Board shall periodically review and, as appropriate, amend the standards required under subparagraph (A) to reflect technological advances or changes in electronic and information technology.

(3) Incorporation of standards

Not later than 6 months after the Access Board publishes the standards required under paragraph (2), the Federal Acquisition Regulatory Council shall revise the Federal Acquisition Regulation and each Federal department or agency shall revise the Federal procurement policies and directives under the control of the department or agency to incorporate those standards. Not later than 6 months after the Access Board revises any standards required under paragraph (2), the Council shall revise the Federal Acquisition Regulation and each appropriate Federal department or agency shall revise the procurement policies and directives, as necessary, to incorporate the revisions.

(4) Acquisition planning

In the event that a Federal department or agency determines that compliance with the standards issued by the Access Board under paragraph (2) relating to procurement imposes an undue burden, the documentation by the department or agency supporting the procurement shall explain why compliance creates an undue burden.

(5) Exemption for national security systems

This section shall not apply to national security systems, as that term is defined in section 5142 of the Clinger Cohen Act of 1996 (40 U.S.C. 1452).

(6) Construction

(A) Equipment

In a case in which the Federal Government provides access to the public to information or data through electronic and information technology, nothing in this section shall be construed to require a Federal department or agency 

(i) to make equipment owned by the Federal Government available for access and use by individuals with disabilities covered by paragraph (1) at a location other than that where the electronic and information technology is provided to the public; or

(ii) to purchase equipment for access and use by individuals with disabilities covered by paragraph (1) at a location other than that where the electronic and information technology is provided to the public.

(B) Software and peripheral devices

Except as required to comply with standards issued by the Access Board under paragraph (2), nothing in paragraph (1) requires the installation of specific accessibility related software or the attachment of a specific accessibility related peripheral device at a workstation of a Federal employee who is not an individual with a disability.

(b) Technical Assistance

The Administrator of General Services and the Access Board shall provide technical assistance to individuals and Federal departments and agencies concerning the requirements of this section.

(c) Agency Evaluations

Not later than 6 months after the date of enactment of the Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1998, the head of each Federal department or agency shall evaluate the extent to which the electronic and information technology of the department or agency is accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities described in subsection (a)(1), compared to the access to and use of the technology by individuals described in such subsection who are not individuals with disabilities, and submit a report containing the evaluation to the Attorney General.

(d) Reports

(1) Interim report

Not later than 18 months after the date of enactment of the Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1998, the Attorney General shall prepare and submit to the President a report containing information on and recommendations regarding the extent to which the electronic and information technology of the Federal Government is accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities described in subsection (a)(1).

(2) Biennial reports

Not later than 3 years after the date of enactment of the Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1998, and every 2 years thereafter, the Attorney General shall prepare and submit to the President and Congress a report containing information on and recommendations regarding the state of Federal department and agency compliance with the requirements of this section, including actions regarding individual complaints under subsection (f).

(e) Cooperation

Each head of a Federal department or agency (including the Access Board, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and the General Services Administration) shall provide to the Attorney General such information as the Attorney General determines is necessary to conduct the evaluations under subsection (c) and prepare the reports under subsection (d).

(f) Enforcement

(1) General

(A) Complaints

Effective 2 years after the date of enactment of the Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1998, any individual with a disability may file a complaint alleging that a Federal department or agency fails to comply with subsection (a)(1) in providing electronic and information technology.

(B) Application

This subsection shall apply only to electronic and information technology that is procured by a Federal department or agency not less than 2 years after the date of enactment of the Rehabilitation Act Amendments of 1998.

(2) Administrative complaints

Complaints filed under paragraph (1) shall be filed with the Federal department or agency alleged to be in noncompliance. The Federal department or agency receiving the complaint shall apply the complaint procedures established to implement section 504 for resolving allegations of discrimination in a federally conducted program or activity.

(3) Civil actions

The remedies, procedures, and rights set forth in sections 505(a)(2) and 505(b) shall be the remedies, procedures, and rights available to any individual with a disability filing a complaint under paragraph (1).

(g) Application to Other Federal Laws

This section shall not be construed to limit any right, remedy, or procedure otherwise available under any provision of Federal law (including sections 501 through 505) that provides greater or equal protection for the rights of individuals with disabilities than this section.
The ADA states the following (directly sourced and copied from the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, as amended):
CHAPTER 126 - EQUAL OPPORTUNITY FOR INDIVIDUALS WITH DISABILITIES
Sec. 12101. Findings and purpose
(a) Findings
The Congress finds that
(1) physical or mental disabilities in no way diminish a person's right to fully participate in all aspects of society, yet many people with physical or mental disabilities have been precluded from doing so because of discrimination; others who have a record of a disability or are regarded as having a disability also have been subjected to discrimination;
(2) historically, society has tended to isolate and segregate individuals with disabilities, and, despite some improvements, such forms of discrimination against individuals with disabilities continue to be a serious and pervasive social problem;
(3) discrimination against individuals with disabilities persists in such critical areas as employment, housing, public accommodations, education, transportation, communication, recreation, institutionalization, health services, voting, and access to public services;
(4) unlike individuals who have experienced discrimination on the basis of race, color, sex, national origin, religion, or age, individuals who have experienced discrimination on the basis of disability have often had no legal recourse to redress such discrimination;
(5) individuals with disabilities continually encounter various forms of discrimination, including outright intentional exclusion, the discriminatory effects of architectural, transportation, and communication barriers, overprotective rules and policies, failure to make modifications to existing facilities and practices, exclusionary qualification standards and criteria, segregation, and relegation to lesser services, programs, activities, benefits, jobs, or other opportunities;
(6) census data, national polls, and other studies have documented that people with disabilities, as a group, occupy an inferior status in our society, and are severely disadvantaged socially, vocationally, economically, and educationally;
(7) the Nation's proper goals regarding individuals with disabilities are to assure equality of opportunity, full participation, independent living, and economic self-sufficiency for such individuals; and
(8) the continuing existence of unfair and unnecessary discrimination and prejudice denies people with disabilities the opportunity to compete on an equal basis and to pursue those opportunities for which our free society is justifiably famous, and costs the United States billions of dollars in unnecessary expenses resulting from dependency and nonproductivity.
(b) Purpose
It is the purpose of this chapter
(1) to provide a clear and comprehensive national mandate for the elimination of discrimination against individuals with disabilities;
(2) to provide clear, strong, consistent, enforceable standards addressing discrimination against individuals with disabilities;
(3) to ensure that the Federal Government plays a central role in enforcing the standards established in this chapter on behalf of individuals with disabilities; and
(4) to invoke the sweep of congressional authority, including the power to enforce the fourteenth amendment and to regulate commerce, in order to address the major areas of discrimination faced day-to-day by people with disabilities.
Sec. 12101 note: Findings and Purposes of ADA Amendments Act of 2008, Pub. L. 110-325, § 2, Sept. 25, 2008, 122 Stat. 3553, provided that:
(a) Findings
Congress finds that-
(1) in enacting the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA), Congress intended that the Act "provide a clear and comprehensive national mandate for the elimination of discrimination against individuals with disabilities" and provide broad coverage;
(2) in enacting the ADA, Congress recognized that physical and mental disabilities in no way diminish a person's right to fully participate in all aspects of society, but that people with physical or mental disabilities are frequently precluded from doing so because of prejudice, antiquated attitudes, or the failure to remove societal and institutional barriers;
(3) while Congress expected that the definition of disability under the ADA would be interpreted consistently with how courts had applied the definition of a handicapped individual under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, that expectation has not been fulfilled;
(4) the holdings of the Supreme Court in Sutton v. United Air Lines, Inc., 527 U.S. 471 (1999) and its companion cases have narrowed the broad scope of protection intended to be afforded by the ADA, thus eliminating protection for many individuals whom Congress intended to protect;
(5) the holding of the Supreme Court in Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. v. Williams, 534 U.S. 184 (2002) further narrowed the broad scope of protection intended to be afforded by the ADA;
(6) as a result of these Supreme Court cases, lower courts have incorrectly found in individual cases that people with a range of substantially limiting impairments are not people with disabilities;
(7) in particular, the Supreme Court, in the case of Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. v. Williams, 534 U.S. 184 (2002), interpreted the term "substantially limits" to require a greater degree of limitation than was intended by Congress; and
(8) Congress finds that the current Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ADA regulations defining the term "substantially limits" as "significantly restricted" are inconsistent with congressional intent, by expressing too high a standard.
(b) Purposes
The purposes of this Act are-
(1) to carry out the ADA's objectives of providing "a clear and comprehensive national mandate for the elimination of discrimination" and "clear, strong, consistent, enforceable standards addressing discrimination" by reinstating a broad scope of protection to be available under the ADA;
(2) to reject the requirement enunciated by the Supreme Court in Sutton v. United Air Lines, Inc., 527 U.S. 471 (1999) and its companion cases that whether an impairment substantially limits a major life activity is to be determined with reference to the ameliorative effects of mitigating measures;
(3) to reject the Supreme Court's reasoning in Sutton v. United Air Lines, Inc., 527 U.S. 471 (1999) with regard to coverage under the third prong of the definition of disability and to reinstate the reasoning of the Supreme Court in School Board of Nassau County v. Arline, 480 U.S. 273 (1987) which set forth a broad view of the third prong of the definition of handicap under the Rehabilitation Act of 1973;
(4) to reject the standards enunciated by the Supreme Court in Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. v. Williams, 534 U.S. 184 (2002), that the terms "substantially" and "major" in the definition of disability under the ADA "need to be interpreted strictly to create a demanding standard for qualifying as disabled," and that to be substantially limited in performing a major life activity under the ADA "an individual must have an impairment that prevents or severely restricts the individual from doing activities that are of central importance to most people's daily lives";
(5) to convey congressional intent that the standard created by the Supreme Court in the case of Toyota Motor Manufacturing, Kentucky, Inc. v. Williams, 534 U.S. 184 (2002) for "substantially limits", and applied by lower courts in numerous decisions, has created an inappropriately high level of limitation necessary to obtain coverage under the ADA, to convey that it is the intent of Congress that the primary object of attention in cases brought under the ADA should be whether entities covered under the ADA have complied with their obligations, and to convey that the question of whether an individual's impairment is a disability under the ADA should not demand extensive analysis; and
(6) to express Congress' expectation that the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission will revise that portion of its current regulations that defines the term "substantially limits" as "significantly restricted" to be consistent with this Act, including the amendments made by this Act.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2015-04-10 09:14:20

Gotcha. Right in the top of it I spot the problem... it specifically says federal agencies, so as ianhamelton says, it doesn't include the private sector. Thus companies like sony, valve, roland, etc... aren't required by this act to make anything accessible because they aren't federal agencies run by the US government. Thanks for posting that though, it was an interesting read.

Discord: clemchowder633

2015-04-10 13:25:25

Hello,
Thanks for posting, I found that interesting as well. Indeed, we'll just have to wait I ugess. I hope that Robjy will come back on here and post when he has some news. I think he's trying to spread the wod around somehow, but not entirely sure what he's got planned.

2015-04-10 13:55:46 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2015-04-10 14:12:35)

First off a disclaimer in that I'm not in any way whatsoever advocating pursuing legal action against Valve, quite the opposite. Legal action should only ever be a last resort. Even from a practical point of view you see much better results from things that people have chosen to do good job of than you see from people who are forced into doing the minimum required amount for.

But just to clarify the information in the other posts. Section 508 does not apply to the private sector. Title III of the Americans with Disabilities act (which was not pasted above) however does apply to the private sector. It does not apply to products themselves, but does apply to commercial entities founded after 1992, or alternations to commercial entities that took place after 1992.

It applies, via legal precedent, to commercial entities that operate solely online, ie. businesses selling products over the internet.

There is an exemption for private membership clubs, however again as established by legal precedent, this does not include sites where you have to sign up for an account in order to transact.

2015-04-10 19:09:15

Well, I'm trying to spread the petition as much as I can.
i reached out to a lot of bigger names in the FGC (Fighting game community), In hopes that their names will help us get noticed by others. I am always chatting with them through their twitch streams and such, and a lot of them have actually signed the petition, and helped me spread the word as well.
Just last night, after an Ultra Street Fighter IV tournament stream, the host of the tournament noticed my name in the twitch chat, and asked me to give her the link to the petition. She then kindly asked everyone who was in the chat to go and help sign it, because she thought it was a great cause. She then went on, and talked a bit about blind gamers, and how we should all be equal and how the steam client should be accessible.
I checked the stream viewer count, and at that time, there were about 1200 people watching the stream. Now, I'm not saying all 1200 people will go and sign the petition but, I think because well known people are trying to help the cause, others will try and follow suit.

You can add me on Steam.
Here is my Twitch profile page Follow me if you want.
You can also follow me on Twitter.
Kong!

2015-04-10 19:18:52

Awesome stuff, Deng. I haven't ever quite gotten to chatting on FGC streams with anyone, since I haven't figured out how to accessibly do it... and I don't watch streams as much as I used to. Too much stuff to do! hahaha.

Discord: clemchowder633