2014-10-13 10:24:51

It's something you get used to, and it's not so much about "hearing a dog" as just being understanding. Dogs are more than capable of communicatingg if you pay attention.

However bad it ends up being, I will say it's worth it in the end, indeed Reever is currently curled up on my feet as I'm lyingg on the settee with my wireless keyboard, so yes, definitely worth it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-13 14:52:23

I've no sight at all and I have no issues now interacting with Kirk. I can't promise you will have plain sailing but so long as the trainers have done their job right everything will fall into place, you just need to give it time.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-13 16:38:46

Well, the Trainer will be here with the dog in less than 3 hours now! 
Thanks guys for the support and tips! smile

I'm probably gonna get banned for this, but...

2014-10-13 21:47:49

I hope today is super special and magical for you. I can't remember what, if anything, I wrote in this thread earlier.
I was worried about breaking my dog. Would she hate me? Would she not want to have anything to do with me? I'm completely blind as well, and grew up with mostly cats, and a few smaller dogs. The only interactions I'd had with bigger dogs were friends' guides. But I absolutely love animals all to pieces. I just hoped she would love me back.
She spent the first day sitting by the door, crying and crying for my instructor. I put her in her crate so I could shower that night, and I heard her crying, so I sang and talked to her so she wouldn't be sad. I can remember sitting on the cold floor right by my door, petting this black lab, talking to her, singing to her, and nothing worked. She wouldn't play, wouldn't come away from that door. I was stranger danger, and she was not happy.
The first few guiding sessions were hard. She moved like a snail, and I thought, "Man, is it always going to be this big of a hastle to get her to walk faster?" I was ready to get down and plead with her. The first little bit, she looked to my trainer for praise and direction. There was definitely a transition period before she started looking to me.
One day, near the end of training, we were doing something with chairs. In the large open room of the training center was me, my class partner, our instructor, and another instructor who wasn't in that rotation. He had a dog in training just hanging out. I think he held onto my dog so I could check something out; I don't exactly remember. I was gone away, across the room from my girl for a few minutes, and she cried for me. She stared at me. When I came back to get her, she jumped up and wagged, so happy to see me. That was one of the best feelings in the world; finally knowing she accepted me as hers.
The best advice I can give you is just to relax. It's not a test to pass or fail. It's not a one-shot deal, and if you mess up, you're done. It's progress, and it's learning, so just be open to it all. Try to blow away any expectations of what it should, or will be like. Just take it one moment at a time. Leave yourself and your mind open to accept and receive. I know that sounds new-age hippy, but it's how I approached training. Reading my girl through the harness just came to me. I don't know when or how it happened. It will take time for your relationship to grow, so just let it do its thing, and keep us updated.

Sugar and spice, and everything ....

2014-10-13 23:54:14

Wow Cinnamon that sounds hard. I had similar experiences with Reever as I said, although ironically the thing that  started to solve things was me getting her to do something  which her trainer definitely didn't approve of, climb on my bed with me as I was just lying down reading an audio book (by staggering irony it was Robin Hobb's Assassin's apprentice).

She initially found the idea weerd and just looked at me, then she jumped up and setled down and that was what started it. I think for her, being so close when I was perfectly relaxed playing core exiles with my wireless keyboard or reading a book was what she needed, just the idea that there was someone around she needed to be close to.

With the Guiding, funnily enough that was the easy part, or at least I was able to recognize that all the mistakes were just matters of muscles that would be no trouble to solve with time, then again Reever is such a gentle dog commands weren't a problem, as opposed to the emotional bit.

So, yes, time is what is needed, and don't give up! I confess there were points I nearly did, especially sinse because literally the week before I started training my light opera society with whom I'd done five years of productions changed directors and got someone who objected to the disability thing, so I wasn't feeling great to start with.

with Reever though it worked out fine and now we'd definitely not be separated, indeed as I said she is still quite anxious about being left.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-14 04:44:02

Fiona is an amazing doggy! that is all!

I got her this morning.  The trainer was really nice, and so was the dog!  As soon as she came to the house she was jumping on me and really excited.
We hung out in my room for a while and she was great; She didn't really listen to my commands at first though.
When we got her on the harness, she did really well.  We actually did some grocery store work, which the trainer says he's never done before on the first day.  Right now fifi as I've started calling her is on my bed relaxing.  I'm kinda excited to work tomorrow!

I'm probably gonna get banned for this, but...

2014-10-14 07:25:28

Glad to hear it. Don't worry, Kirk didn't really listen to me when not in the harness at first. They put a group of us up in a hotel for a couple weeks so they could train us all together and when I told Kirk to sit this older lady's guide dog sat instead while Kirk simply didn't bother. That said he is rather stubborn even to this day.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-10-14 12:36:54

Lol! that is fun.

Reever surprisingly was alwways good with commands, though she did have a tendency to follow other people's dogs.

Glad things are working out so well so quickly.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-15 07:11:30

things went well today as well! but my instructor has been warning me about what they like to call "fifth day blues".  The day where the dog decides to question and act against everything you do to challenge your authority.  I am... very excited for that day!

I'm probably gonna get banned for this, but...

2014-10-15 07:35:40

Funnily enough with Reever that wasn't too bad, then again I'm fairly used to dogs and commands so it wasn't a problem. Generally if Reever goes wrong or tries something the wrong way I say "watch!" in a fairly firm tone and go back and make her do it again, though usually she's fine unless she gets destracted which doesn't happen often, even at the start.

With Reever though she's not exactly an assertive personality to begin with.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-20 04:45:43

I've never used a guide dog, but my late former roommate did. He only had one dog, but she worked out pretty well for him. She came from the Guide Dog Foundation for the Blind, and I'd have to say that their emotional bond was very strong. In fact it might've been a bit too strong some of the time. By that I mean he allowed her to roam free, and I've been told by a few friends and neighbors that he actually let people pet her sometimes while she was on the harness despite telling me and others not to pet her. One other thing he told me was never to utter the dog's name in public, or else she'd get confused. I've since read that this is actually not true in many or all cases, so I think he was just being anal. To his credit though, he did have some rather serious health issues which prevented him from taking care of the dog a lot of the time. So our neighbors pitched in during those times. He passed away almost 3 years ago though, and for a brief period the dog was taken to live with a visiting nurse who often came and helped out with medication. But last I heard, she was sent back to the school from which she came.

2014-10-20 04:54:25

Sorry to hear about your friend, but I'm not absolutely sure about some of these things. Firstly, having a strong emotional bond doesn't translate to letting your dog wander around unsafe places, quite the opposite in fact, I also find the name in public thing a bit weerd, especially when the Dog is not working.

When your friend passed on, I wonder what the school planned for the Dog? Generally in Britain Guide dogs will rehome retired dogs or dog's who's owner is no longer around with families just as normal pet dogs rather than trying to make them work for someone else, as if a dog has been with someone as their guide for years this probably won't work out well.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-22 09:09:33

i don't have a guide dog, but in my future i want work with that dog

2014-10-23 12:18:38

Hi guys.
I've been reading this topic since it started and find all of your posts interesting. I'm going to send in my application over the weekend, and I have a question.
I see a lot of talk about what happens after the fact, but I'm curious as to what attending the actual training program was like? I'm not the most outgoing person so I was wondering if anyone had any tips or experiences they could share about going to the program, so if I get accepted I'll know what to expect. I realize it's all going to be different though. Just want to get a basic idea.

Thanks.

If a helicopter falls in the field and no one's around, it doesn't make a sound.

2014-10-23 13:04:03

@Saphira it's certainly worth it if you can do. Guide Dogs aren't right for everyone, and sometimes it doesn't work which is why the guide dog association over here are so careful both about who gets which dog, and what dog you get, but if it works it's amazing! Indeed, last night I went for a meal with my brother then back to his place to watch Game of thrones, I left reever at my parents sinse my brother is a bit paranoid about his house.

Yes, I could still navigate fine with my cane, but by heck it was so much harder!  It just made me realize how much easier things are with a dog and how much less energy you need to constantly put in to walking around and being aware of people and obstacles.

@livrobo, glad your considering this and good luck with the application. I'm not sure where you are in the world, but in the Uk there isn't so much a "training program"

You apply to guide dogs for services and they decide whether your right for a dog, after doing a massive questionaire about your life, your mobility skills, how much you go out etc. They then for me did a test assessment where I had a trainer pretending to be a dog which was fairly whacky
Once I was accepted I went to a test walk day, this was where they had several dogs and a harnice and gave people the chance to walk with a dog just for the experience, as well as having a guide dog owner chat about taking care of a dog. That was okay, though myself I was more interested in meeting the dogs than the people, sinse I tend to much prefer dogs big_smile. Seriously, of the two people there one girl was a fairly sterriotypically blind person and so not really easy to live with. One older lady was quite okay to get on with and have a vague chat to sinse she'd gone blind later, though we didn't get as much time over the course of the day.

For the training itself once I'd waited on the list and Guide dogs found me a dog, I didn't myself go aaway for training. some people get sent off to a hotel or similar with a group of other blind people training with their dogs, but that didn't happen to me, I was trained at home in my flat with Reever. That was actually pretty hard as I have said due to Reever missing her trainer, indeed I do think more contact with other people in training might have helped. There was one lady who was training at the same time I did, and a couple of times we met up for joint sessions, but certainly not that often, indeed other than the couple of hours a day I was with the trainer I was pretty much alone with Reever, ---- and being alone with a dog who really doesn't want to be with you is not a nice experience, though thankfully that has now changed entirely, (indeed Reever is once again curled up on my feet while I'm writing this).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-23 15:19:35

Training programs are vastly different depending on where you are. In the US, it's very typical to apply to one of the schools and then, once you're matched with a dog, go there for two to three and a half weeks, depending on which school you attend.
I'm not an outgoing sort of person, and I've never much enjoyed socializing. But when I went to get my dog last year, I decided I was going to make a decisive effort to be social. So, once I unpacked, I took my cane and made my way to the common lounge. There I parked myself and waited for people to show up.
My advice to you goes like this.
Make an effort to be social, to be outgoing, to get out there and explore the school and to meet people. It's an opportunity, so just throw yourself out there and go for it.
Don't be worried about passing or failing some test. Everyone is learning, and it's OK to not get stuff right away.
Ease back and just let it be. Don't sit there obsessing and trying too hard.
Bring food, or take advantage of grocery runs. Sometimes, they served food I didn't like.
Go to bed at a decent hour. The morning comes early.
You're there for your dog. Not to meet up with cute singles, not to chat online to your buddies. That training period should be devoted to getting to know your pup and strengthening your relationship. Being social is awesome and wonderful, but remember what you're actually there for.
Good luck!

Sugar and spice, and everything ....

2014-10-23 20:42:35

in last month i was took part in course, which prepared and tested me to get a guide dog. I passed the test, and foundation accept me. I waiting for a dog!

2014-10-23 21:12:53

Well good luck, also as has been said in this topic, don't expect it to work out streight away, hopefully the foundation you  mention will suit your dog's personality to you, but there is still learning the  comamnds and forming an attachment with your dog, the last particularly will take time but is more than worth it in the end.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-26 19:38:44

Hi,

While I don't have a Guide Dog, I have been in ccotact with them. My piano teacher hha a guide dog and she can be immature. If you look ather and clap, she'll get excited. i once tried to make her jump on my Mother. So be careful if your Dog iwats some fun.

And also give them anything they want provided it is within reason, of course. Otherwise thty'll be mad. My teacher's elder guide Dog does not stop when I'm in, probably because she wants all the Queenly attention. And be careful if you decide to get a second in case the two decide to outrival one another.

Best regards,and thanks for reading this post,
Thunderfist

2014-10-26 20:24:58

Hello.

Thanks for all your advice guys.
I'm glad someone brought this topic back to the front because I forgot to respond a few days ago.

Like I said though, thanks guys. Will keep everything in mind.

If a helicopter falls in the field and no one's around, it doesn't make a sound.

2014-10-27 09:03:42

@Thunderfist, "give them anything they want?" nope. Your guide dog is a dog and needs to have fun when not working, but equally can't just run around going nuts and having their own way all the time, for a start, you shouldn't be encouraging a guide dog to jump on anybody! sinse what happens if the dog does that on the street? IN Britain at least guide dogs are very well trained before you get them and you need to maintain that. It's a complex balance to get right, but just like any system (such as this forum), needs some vaguely understood authority  even as it exists just to have fun, you do need to be your dog's principle pack leader and definitely in charge not the other way around. This is true with any dog, but with guide dogs even more so, sinse what happens if your dog is used to doing exactly what he/she wants, is walking you around and wants to go and say hello to the dog across the road?

Same with attention, indeed guide dogs in Britain will train their dogs to be able to sit say in a restaurant or a class room or whatever while your doing something else, in fact that's a basic part of the training.

Reever is quite a gentle personality, so I haven't had that many authority conflicts with her, but there still have been a couple, for example there was one occasion where she persistantly went and tried to meet other dogs on a walk to the point that I actually had to correct her fairly firmly.

Also why the hell would you get a second dog? That would be loopy and unfare to both dogs.

@Liv robo, let us know how it goes. As I said earlier the start can be hard but don't get discouraged, it is! very much worth it in the end, and the more you put in, the more you get out .

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-27 15:08:41

Hi Dark,

In reply to your post, I did say within reason. Of course you can't let the dog do what it wants. What I intended to say was within reason, provided it stops him or her from barking constantly.

And the reason why I mentioned 2 dogs was because my piano teacher got a new dog because her first one is getting rather old.
If there are any issues, I'm always happy to clear them up.
Best regards,
Muhammed.

2014-10-27 20:31:40

Hi Thunderfist.

While I got your "within reason" comment, at the same time,  if a dog learns that if it barks constantly it gets  attention and rewards, well what do you think the dog will do?

It's better to ignore the dog, get the dog to lie down when you want, or   teach the dog a more appropriate method of playing like picking up a toy and bringing it to you.

If a dog barks insessantly, it usually means there is something wrong in either it's initial training, or in how it's been treated, certainly if a guide dog in Britain had that sort of issue, the trainer would help the owner sort it out, indeed in Britain most guide dogs  rarely bark at all, reever only barks when she wants to get my attention, for example if I've left her outside and she wants to come in, and even then, only in very single barks.

This is why Guide dogs aren't for everyone.  Dogs are lovely, indeed a lot nicer than people in a lot of ways, but there is a certain code you need to get into.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-10-28 21:56:23

Without getting this too longwinded and into much detail, I must say I fully agree with Dark. From your description, Thunderfist, it sounds as though the dogs you got in contact with were either incredibly spoiled and screwed up after they have been trained and given to their blind owners, or perhaps even some aspects of the training itself were overlooked.
Lukas

I won't be using this account any more or participating in the forum activity through other childish means like creating an alternate account. I've asked for the account to be removed but I'm not sure if that's actually technically possible here. Just writing this for people to know that I won't be replying, posting new topics or checking private messages until the account is potentially removed.

2014-11-01 22:03:52

Hi Lukas and Dark,

To be honest, there wasn't anything overlooked with her training and she wasn't really spoilt. The only time when she barks, funnily enough, is whenever I come in to take my piano lesson. And there hasn't been any wrong treatment with her. Could it perhaps be because of the other dog? According to what I've heard, if the younger dog has something like a toy, the older dog chases the younger one. They've got this sort of rivalry between them.
But from what I've seen, she isn't sspoilt. It has only been these past few times that she has barked so much, otherwise she's just lying down or sleeping.