2014-07-22 15:29:17

Just to clarify for those who aren't aware:

Support ending in 2015 will be no more new versions of integrated software such as Internet Explorer or Windows Media Player along with new features and improvements to stability or performance. Security holes will still be patched until 2020.

What does this mean? Even though Windows itself will still receive security updates Internet Explorer won't so using an alternative browser such as Firefox is highly recommended. Other than that your system should run exactly as it is now, you simply won't get any additions to the system and there will be no changes of any kind, including for security, to bundled software such as IE or WMP. If it isn't strictly speaking a direct part of Windows, even if it is an inseparable part of Windows, it won't get anything at all from that point on.

Think of it as being like a car manufacturer saying they'll only maintain the chassis of cars they produced, and won't have anything to do with any other part such as wheels or windscreen even if they're the same ones the car was bought with.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 02:36:21

Thanks cx2 for your recommendation.

2014-07-23 19:51:52

Personally, I'm with Tom on this one.  I always try to get my hands on a PC, even if only a cheap one, running the latest system MS pushes out so that when it truly is time to switch over for whatever reason the system doesn't completely surprise me and leave me feeling like a fish out of water.  For quite some time I"ve wanted to try a mac, but saving up to get one and keeping up with windows world are not easy.  Since I can't quite justify the price of  amac, IE, I truly haven't the incentive to get one other than wanting to experience it, I haven't bothred even really trying to save up for one.


Anything I can think of doing on a mac I can already do on a windows PC, and more importantly, do comfortably.  Certainly macs may have more reliable hardware, and overall responsiveness, but the fact still stands, that when it comes to ease of use, I would have to struggle for some time to do what I've already been able to do almost reflexively for years with MS's systems.  Since time doesn't stop turning just because I am thinking of getting a new Mac and I want to learn it, and since I already know what is possible with what I already have and what I might be able to afford a year in the future if need be, it's windows world for now.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2014-07-23 21:21:16

I've sorta come to the conclusion I'm stuck with Windows one way or another since I'll want access to the games and mud client among other things, plus my current desktop with SoundBlaster Recon 3D and Roccat Cave headphones sounds even better than my MBP did using optical. I suppose I could get a Mac Mini when the time comes and install Windows using boot camp or VMware Fusion but meh. Of course MS also introduced a rule that you can only use Windows in a VM if you own the ultimate edition, and added code to detect this. Boot Camp technically isn't virtualisation, though actual virtualisation just kills your performance so I would suggest not using it for modern software.

When my laptop packs in I'll probably look at an iPad instead, and see if I can't rig something up using the camera connection kit to get a decent USB keyboard connected. I've read articles online where people use a small briefcase as a shell for a self built laptop based around a Raspberry Pi so I might use the same technique just with an iPad, which also removes the need to add a separate screen among other things.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 22:00:37

Of course, with the logic that many XP holdouts now use to hold out, you're just as well off on Vista as 7. Don't buy the hype; just switch browsers. smile

As to being stuck on Doze, the only people you're kidding is yourselves. I'm fairly good at change, and while I recognise that others are less good, and that not all change is for the better, the fact is that you're never going to know one way or another whether OS X (or Linux) is right for you until you give that platform a try. So, give it a try! smile

As for the reasons, well that's a different matter. For me, back in 2008-2009, it was development, and a command line on my desktop. I still entertain Windows on one of my main machines for some of my technical/sysadmin work that is limited by the Mac version of VMWare Fusion, but I've been glad I made the jump, because I'm really the happier for it. Similar comments apply to Linux, if you have the nerve. You simply don't have to stay where you are; you now have choices, and should be investigating those choices to suit yourself.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-23 22:11:48

Um, I've owned a MacBook pro for four years going from Snow Leopard through to Mavericks and everything in between. I think that qualifies as giving it a try somehow. My conclusion is I'm still stuck with Windows *if* I want reasonable access to audio games and muds, which simply are only available on Windows. I'm sure there are Mac audio games, in fact I own silver dollar for Mac, but you can't for example get any of the GMA products.

I love my Mac I really do but all I'm generally using it for is general usage, something I could probably do just as well with an iPad connected to a USB keyboard. I'd have less media storage but I can find a work around for that, and an iPad will cost significantly less than a MacBook Air which will still give me media storage issues anyway.

Thus a Mac is more than I need for general usage, and doesn't have the range of audio games available that I desire for leisure purposes. It can be a fantastic system but like many people I am beginning to think a tablet will fill my needs in the portable role better at a lower price and with more flexibility in terms of portability.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 22:30:18

I'm 100 percent with cx2 on this one. I think another reason i'm sticking windows is i can get great hardware for not a lot of money, which is fantastic in my book. Right now in fact, i have windows 8.1 screaming on an ssd, and server class lenovo hardware so, i'm happy for a long time.

2014-07-23 22:37:03

@cx2: fair enough, you're game, if you'll pardon the pun. smile

Even if I were to go back to Windows full-time, it'd probably still be on Mac hardware. I'm not likely to give that any serious thought until Windows 9 or whatever it's called, though. I doubt they'll give me enough of what I need even then. For me, the chief reason is not games, but pro software, in particular VMWare Workstation, but I'd also get Thunderbird and Windows Server as bonuses, which following the iOSification of OS X have become sadly necessary.

I agree, virtualisation is a problem, but it's a lot better than not having XP. You need XP if you want a good part of the value from most audiogames right now IMO. I'm looking into ESXi, to make it go faster.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-23 22:39:35 (edited by cx2 2014-07-23 22:40:46)

Note I said I didn't recommend running *modern* software in a VM. Windows XP isn't exactly modern software wink plus most audio games aren't exactly taxing on the system in the same manner as mainstream games.

What I didn't want people thinking of doing is using a VM version of Windows for every day tasks, that's just silly.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-23 23:04:55

OK, fair enough. Well, I think virtualisation is a problem for latency no matter what, but yes, it's really very true that one should be realistic if one places demands on hardware. Technically, the only thing stopping me from using Fusion is VMWare, so hopefully they'll listen to my feature requests, but regardless, it seems to me that right now Apple's brand of lobotomisation is preferable to that of Microsoft's on my everyday MBP. I hope the situation changes, either so that legacy peripherals are supported by VMWare, which would allow me to build my testbeds on my Macs, or else Windows gets a keyboard-accessible UI, in which case I'll hop on over, but that isn't yet.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-24 11:31:09

The hardware doesn't always help. You see the current low end mac mini has a dual core I5? You can't really get those any more for desktops, that's a laptop processor which means it's adjusted to keep down heat and power consumption at the cost of a modest amount of performance so that laptops can handle the cooling and battery requirements more effectively. I really, really don't like having laptop components in a desktop, and the increasing difficulty in hard drive swaps in recent models is doubly off putting.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-24 11:55:57

Solution: pay more, get the two SSds and the core I7, which is much more appropriate for that form factor. Mac Minis make excellent servers.

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-24 12:07:08

Which is still a laptop chip, and which is relatively expensive for a desktop of that power level. Apple seriously overcharge for SSDs in any case and I still don't like the inability to replace the drives if I feel it necessary at some later point. My current preference is for an SSD with the OS on and a minimum of 1TB for media and so on, by the time I'm looking at replacing this desktop I'll probably be looking more at 3TB.

Apple do choose good quality hardware components but buying a Mac just for the hardware is a bit of a waste, and I'd much rather self build a desktop that I can upgrade and maintain myself than prat about with such a small form factor that doesn't allow user access.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-24 12:33:17

Putting aside Apple's pricing, I think Apple made the right choice, from an engineering standpoint. Sure, if you want power for power's sake, buy from PC Specialist or whoever; they'll build you the biggest, hottest rig imaginable, and you get to choose a silver case to house the thing in. My Mac Minis are excellent for what I need them for, and I'm frankly astounded that they perform as well as they do without putting out much heat at all. I'd sooner use these to some feeble Atom or ARM-based boxes normally sold for the same purpose. And yeah, it's nice that I have enough memory in here to virtualise multiple OSs, which just so happen to include OS X. smile

Just myself, as usual.

2014-07-24 14:29:24

Oh they're certainly better than Arm or Atom, but they're also about three times the price just for the bottom end one. They're fine for the average user, if rather pricey, but I value upgradability over the small form factor more.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2014-07-24 15:04:42

Fair enough, although I've never understood the price fixation. You might have a sporting chance, if you build it yourself (or get someone to do it for you). I doubt you'll get much competition for the big-end MicroITX builders though.

As for Apple's other stuff, well, the big surprise is that the Mac Pro costs less than an equivalent DIY build. I don't like watching Apple fail to keep up with the market much for sure, but that's quite an achievement for the machine you get. Still way out of my league, though.

Just myself, as usual.