2014-01-16 13:12:38

As you have doubtless learned by now, I am fail. So I've been looking into training of some sort or another.

But research on the organizations in the US is difficult! You may recall that I could find no link between formal training and notability, but it's more bothersome than that.

I've been leaning toward the NFB centers throughout most of this, because it's so stupidly difficult to find anything with better PR, or at least a decent review of an NFB center not written by the NFB, so all I get about them is positive.

In contrast, the leading opponent for my attendance, World Services for the Blind, has spawned multiple horror stories. Yet someone always pops up and insists that changes are being made a couple years after said stories get published.

Were I to go for an NFB center, I'd want to aim for the one in Colorado (WSB is closer to me than any NFB center, which I hope should be explanation enough for why I'm not particularly excited about the Louisiana center). That one's hardest to find information on (apparently a spam warlord set up a copy of their site to advertise the sorts of things spambots advertise).
All the opinions I find on the NFB centers come down to either NFB members singing their praises (which is similar to WSB staff singing WSB praises), or complaints about four specific things (Sleep shades, NFB canes, guidedog policies that may or may not actually exist, and the NFB's general attitude).

But I don't care about the politics of it; I want some bloody independence. The real kind, like my sighted sister has. Will I actually learn those skills from any of these places? And how long will it take? Not gonna lie, I spent 2013 not doing anything useful, and I don't want to disappear off the face of the development scene for six to ten months on the heels of that.

I talked with my new DSB person last week about this, and it turns out that WSB does a 30 day no-commitment trial. I decided this would be a decent compromise: she's clearly affiliated with them, and my parents would prefer someplace closer, and I could maybe even talk people I know in the area to make an appearance... oh, and having a much shorter-term evaluation period is very nice (the thing to do with a hypothesis is to test it, after all). And she did suggest that if WSB doesn't work out, we could look into somewhere else.

Does anyone have any up-to-date (as in, the past 3 years) info on any of these programs? NFB, WSB, some other program I haven't mentioned (after all, this is an international community), anything's game.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-01-16 16:59:31

One thing you have been pretty vague on is your end game? Training for what, what are you trying to accomplish? I could share personal experience and give advice if you give a bit more in to what you want out of these types of programs.

2014-01-16 17:16:14

I want to not live with my parents, not live in a place filled with mold and dirt and pests, not be stuck at a computer for the rest of my life, not be too lacking-in-money to accomplish anything, travel without having to consult relatives, and heck, why I'm at it, become the Batman (or at least Robin).
... and be able to cook, and deal with dental/medical/etc issues without going through relatives, and get back into Aikido, and get in good enough shape that I might actually survive the next decade, and I wouldn't mind having friends within bullet-blocking distance.

So, basically, the things all the not-impoverished sighted people (such as my little sister) take for granted.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-01-16 18:08:27

Hi CAE,
I'm pretty much in the same situation, except for me, it's college, plus all the dependence.  Translation: I can't get around campus or do anything else without help, and it's really, really annoying.  And what's worse is, the parentals don't see this as a problem.  It's really quite depressing and I have no idea what the hell to do.  I think a blindness center would help; but nobody else seems to agree.  Throw in the fact that, as you say, there's no real information on these places, and you can see that I'm pretty much screwed.

2014-01-16 18:15:20

For right now, all I really need out of a blindness center is cane travel/mobility, and lots of it.  I seriously would be content waking up and spending all day, every day, for a few months, just working on mobility cane travel, since my skills are seriously that bad.  A combination of bad instructors for a few years, followed by no instruction for a few years, followed by more bad instruction leaves me in a pretty bad place.  I have no idea how, for instance, public transportation works around here, or anywhere, for that matter.  Don't ask me how to cross a street safely, because I don't know.  As you can tell, serious issues, and I have no idea what to do about it.

I figured a center could also help me with other blindness skills, too, like general stuff to do around your house, cooking, etc.  Since I already know braille inside and out, I figured I could learn print – that might prove useful.  But I have no idea what center to go to, I'd prefer something for as long as possible, like the 9-month NFB ones...But as you say, there's no real information.  And nobody around here even listens to what I have to say.  Interrupt college for some blindness bullshit?  No way!  Even though this "blindness bullshit" as they call it is really damn important and useful.

2014-01-16 18:36:12 (edited by camlorn 2014-01-16 18:46:07)

The below is my opinion and thoughts on this subject.  I'm loving alone in a college dorm, with some help from parents and others to get to the grocery store.  I have plans to fix that; they involve leaving the state for somewhere where you can use public transportation to take a 20-minute car trip in under two or three hours.  We have no light rail, minimal bus systems, and the one that does the blind-specific stuff just got taken to court and is claiming it's going to reform.  I handle everything else; cooking, cleaning, all that.
What you need is probably a residency program.  I don't know how much you have already.  I can't personally speak to any of the training centers; my parents took it on themselves at a young age, mostly because the formal training *can* suck and, in their experience (I was too young to remember), had a lot of really strange ideas (like you should encourage your blind child to play with their food).  The thing with formal training is this: some people are going to benefit tremendously.  If you don't get it at a young age, that's quite possibly you-I had parents and the school system helped once I got to high school (the one I was  at before that thought blind people should go sit in the corner, otherwise they might get hurt).  Post grade school, there isn't much you get without working for it.
A good program will give you the skills to live alone, definitely.  You're probably not going to be close to home though.  In fact, given the previous descriptions of your living arrangements in the middle of nowhere (wolves were mentioned once, as I recall), you're probably going to have to move far to get what you want.  I plan to do likewise-good, exceptional, overdone, and popular public transportation is a must, and we don't have tat in Florida.  The hardest part isn't going to be cleaning or cooking or what-have-you, it's going to be the physical trip to the grocery store and back, at least in my opinion.  For the moving part, do some homework on public transportation and aim for places with it.  Also note that such a program will only give you basic skills; you're going to have to develop beyond them. You'll be fine, just, you'll still spend a lot of times discovering tricks or having problems they didn't even discuss in class.
    I don't know much about current options.  Depending on how far along and/or capable you are, expect at least some frustration as they try to teach you things you know, or try to make you do things a less-than-optimal way.  I think that the lack of link between formal training and success is because of two things: first, we're a minority group and the statistics may be lacking.  Second, the kind of person who would benefit from formal training is the kind of person who looks for it, and I'd have to say that the kind of person who looks for it is already halfway there-they know there's a problem, and are working on fixing it.  I.e, if they can't get it, they'll at least try to find another way.  I've seen training forced on a blind person a couple times, and the resistance just makes it meaningless; and that situations isn't uncommon as you'd think, especially in the public school system (they have to try to do their best, even if you don't).  The willingness has to be there.  I am not saying, by any stretch of the imagination, that willingness is guaranteed success; it is merely a component of it.
    If your goal is employment, consider cultivating your programming skill somehow, possibly college or an internship or something.  There is somewhat of a push to get blind people into computer science, so you might be able to find something through one of these organizations.  For living arrangements, half of the "good quality" is your personal ability to maintain it (cleaning, repairs, furniture, even noticing that something's off in the first place), and half of it is where you are (good building, repair services, sighted help when you absolutely must have it or else, ability to get to random stores for random things you didn't know you needed).  The important thing here is that you can bring these things together and end up with something satisfactory.  For friends and/or a social life, well, that depends on a whole lot, and is highly situation and location specific.
As for where? Changes or no, those articles you posted should be enough to steer you clear of that organization.  One on its own is iffy, but they have certain similarities that raise a whole lot of red flags.  Also, it looks--from those articles--like they are pushing you to be in the IRS.  Government is a kind of good place to be, simply because they have accessibility requirements; if it's not what you want to do, however, then that's another good reason to possibly avoid that program.  I don't know what the NFB one tries to get you a job as.  A job is certainly going to be part of this recipe, or at least some method by which you can make money, and you obviously want to not hate it if at all possible.

Edit (I started posting, put the computer to sleep for an hour, and then someone else posted etc, etc):
Scotf2012, interrupting college for basic cane skills if necessary is worth it.  Screw your parents if you have to, you're over 18.  I had a friend who had similar parents: they tried to pretend he wasn't blind,.  It ended very, very badly.  Basic cane skills is a different story; you may not want to leave for somewhere else, and should start with local organizations.  You can quite possibly get someone to come teach you your college, and use it as the learning environment for your mobility skills.  A college degree minus the ability to walk or otherwise travel anywhere equals a very, very large waste of money-yes, please hire me, and by the way i must work from home? No, at least not for most jobs.  It is worth arguing this out with your parents, and don't hold back from asking them the very hard questions, like what they expect you to do when you're stuck at home and unemployed because you cant' travel.
You might also consider practicing on your own, in an environment where you feel safe.  As an alternative, you might be able to enlist a sighted friend to walk with you and make sure that you are safe while you try.  Obviously, I'm not suggesting heading straight for busy intersections 101 without an instructor (or really ever-you want an instructor for that), but you could easily practice basic things-navigating large buildings, for example, or walking around the block in a quiet neighborhood.  It is somewhat important that, if you enlist a friend, they only give you hints and/or information when you really need it-the cane should find stuff for you, not them.  Otherwise you won't learn anything.  I'd only use this second strategy if all else fails-an instructor, a good one anyway, is valuable for the basic training.

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2014-01-16 18:54:03

Ok cae.
Firstly, this is going to be harsh.
not to you but on your topic.
You can call me a no good bastard if you want I don't mind.
Firstly, you need to know what you want round about.
I am 31 years old now and should know.
I hate to burst things but my experiences were less than favorable.
School life was a standard thing.
I got some training and courses at my local centre for the basics.
Later on at 20 I attended uni and again it was ok.
I also went to a flatting course for indipendance training, they were going through a shuffle and there were slack moments and other things that I did not find usefull.
I came back home prity much the same as I came in maybe not the same but still mostly what I was when I went in to the program.
I then spent about 6 years searching for work.
Initially I got a good carrier adviser that told me where to go what to do etc and what agencies to get into.
For the first 3 years in uni with this arrangement I was doing ok.
Then the entire polocy of the organisation I am in changed, its the only one really existing for blind here though.
Things started going wrong.
stuff I asked for from one agency always had issues computers that came from the cheapest vender failed constantly.
Even though I was able to survive for 2 years with this I was happy when it finally failed.
Screen reading and other software came later than expected in one case at the end of a course which I although passed had someone simply do for me and therefore have only theory for it which was not anything because, of various issues of things not happening at the right time.
After struggling through uni for 3 years I left mainly because I had encountered a visual section that I could not get round, sertainly I did not manage to get as high as I would have got.
After that I continue to struggle, I played piano, don't much anymore and a few other things.
I pushed for a job but places that I was told were now what were officially recomended did not have anything.
Eventually I thought fuck it and quit entirely.
Worse was to come.
I decided to go back to 2 agencies I was recomended as a last resort.
I was able to finnish my cv and for a time this was ok, I even went back to coledge for a term of studdy under my own expence.
But it was not to be, between high burnout and slackness, they did not happen.
Finally I simply told my parents that enough was enough and that I was not prepaired to wait anymore.
I had tried my best and it was not enough.
I decided to switch from trying to look to simply aiming for projects, trying to network as much as I could putting myself out hoping for a bite.
This has not been that successfull either but I have got more than nothing some of the work is not as constant as I would like but its work.
A great deal of it well 2-3 times  year is university research, that while boring does get me out and engages my mind in debait and has a decent wage.
I have also done one off projects for some business schools, well one and a limited contract with the government.
I have also done one company website testing and was assured I would have a position if work ever came up.
That sounds impressive but its really not.
most of those are one offs, the contract ended as suddenly as it began, the research though highly paying is only 2 hours or so every 6 months or less and is not garenteed sometimes there is nothing and that may eventually end.
Online, I have done a few gaming tests for blind adrenaline, one off testing, spoonbill again one off, usagames and vipgameszone but most of those have ended now.
My latest has been with pkb group now dead and now ks and reality gaming which are ok but not payed ofcause.
As for training centres.
You want it you get it.
You need to find it and it may not exist.
So after all that ramble what I really am trying to say is that for me although I did get some skills they didn't change me much, I am still looking for that big gold house in the sky.
Its a possibility, but there is probably a good chance that I will never hit it.
My field as computer tech is limited, so many graphics, so many other things.
To be honest between my years 20 though to 28 I was ready to tackle the world head on.
Now, I don't know.
I'd like to if I found an opening but I am happy to wait.
ofcause once I hit 50-60, I will probably not be caring anymore who knows.
It still gets me down sometimes I don't have a job.
Cae, don't raise your expectations to high.
I was aiming high, a normal job, normal work, a family, a normal life.
Things even in work have changed, family including my brother who has only just started a job last year says that a lot of stuff is dumped on you these days and you are expected to know more than you do.
The way things were before has changed a lot.
Right now my main focus is to get out there and do as much as I can.
Most of it will probably be for nothing or not to much.
Another thing cae, have you ever thought about leaving home.
How much are you payed in your benefit.
I also don't say this litely.
At home life may suck.
It may be to regular for you, and there may be other things you have issue with.
But believe me when I say it, while you have parents you should not be  so ready to leave home.
What I get from the government is not much.
Barely enough to live on.
And think of it, I can never own or maintain a house so I have to rent.
Rent, food, and then what.
Rent at least in new zealand while cheaper than buying a house is expensive, there are a lot of taxes and a lot of other junk you have to handle when you leave home.
If you get a stable life such that you can manage on your own maybe to the point your benefit is cut because its deemed stable then come back here and ask me again, I wish you luck.
Truth is, I am quite fearfull of what I will do when my parents, etc do die.
I have nowhere where to go, what I will do.
My only hope is to probably to move to some old peoples home somewhere or something.
I don't have any serious cash if i was expected to live off it.
The only reason I even have the net, a phone, my computers, and in deed a lot of things I take for granted now is because I live at home.
I doubt I will be able to afford high quality helthy food when I leave home.
I sertainly can not afford new supplies as readily either.
Another fear I do have is where I will eventually end up, dieing, well that but also how I will be and how the world percieves me when I leav it.
Don't be to ready to leave the womb just yet.
This is your second womb and while you can leave at any time and come back at any time it can get harder to do so as things go on.
You have the choice to leave this one, or even partly leave it.
Iff you know what you want, and like a few examples manage to get enough knowhow that you can live a good life, leave home and make it, well ok, fine but I know a lot that have or will never make it not for the lack of not trying heck I am still struggling, but because there is nothing in the wastes outside.
My advice, stay for as long as you can, or at least till you find a way out.
I have had family that due to various family and home dynamics decided to do as you suggest and leave home.
One is successfull but burns her wealth sooner or later they will be back to squear one.
Another seems to be ok.
Yet another is depressed and has had little luck though has tallents and could be ok.
Another has gone nowhere, has no cash and although is out of home uses her family for their cash having none and unable to get it either.
Its going to be hard to choose an endgame.
During my struggles I tried my best to find my way through the maze outside, but if I was aiming for the centre I had to contend myself with the trophies I found in the various rooms.
Oh not to mention the grues, there are a lot of them.
I got eaten by several, there will be a time when I finally stop struggling the question is how long.
Ok, so if you are going to do the jump into the deep well thing I have a few things.
You need to choose something you want, and studdy for it, initially aim for the lowest rung then go up as far as you can go before it becomes a problem.
Then try something else.
Keep your mind open.
Its been the only way I have continued to live.
Look for opertunities and grab them like a pitbull.
Don't main to high.
THe standard stuff may look good, but its hard to get there unless you can get there.
There are obsticles on the way some of them can't be always crossed.
For instance the 2 agencies I got out of eventually a couple years ago had not closed my file  and asked me for cash to their various charities.
Only after I told them to go to hell did they close my files.
I should have never got involved with them in the first place.
Saying that out of all my trials my life has improved from not knowing to at least giving me a chance.
Its not much of one, but still.
I have at least another 20-30 years in the womb to struggle and find out where to go.
After that, I will probably give up and die or something.
30 years is a long time and as long as nothing changes to much, where I am in will be stable.
Question is will I continue for that long.

2014-01-16 19:20:41

At scotf: I had plenty of time over breaks, or when I wasn't in class, to get mobility lessons on campus, but they were specific to campus, and dependant on what mobility I already had. Even then, most of the routes I learned were more like tips than anything; I effectively rewrote my entire mental map of the campus after two years when I decided "Screw it" and went outside with a tape-recorder (I don't remember if I even brought my cane for that... I got lost at one point because I ran out of any territory I was familiar with to get a good recording of a passing train. I still managed to get back before I ran out of tape, somehow (it's a small campus).).
It also hurt that ESVI dissolved right around the time I enrolled, and getting a mobility instructor to help became a matter of me contacting one. And it turned out that the email address I gave my instructor got eaten when my webhost redid their email system (the redoing made it inaccessible, in addition to destroying most of the mailboxes I'd delegated to different functions). She did give my brailist a few useful tips on mobility instruction, and he was much easier to access, so there's that.
If you can get in contact with a local organization that knows what they're talking about, or local disability services (here it's called Department of Services for the Blind, and is an extension of DHS), that might be a good place to start, unless you've tried this and everyone was unhelpful, in which case... blah, I might consider consulting one of the people I previously mentioned to see if they can come up with anything (depends on where you live).


At Camlorn:
(It was coyotes, actually, but close enough. big_smile )

I'm not fond of the idea of moving elsewhere, though I won't deny that it has its advantages (this can be one of the top ten US towns for Cheapskates all it wants; it's still an iffy place to live if you aren't a particular type of person). I have property with a beat-up mobile home (You might as well call it Thesius's Trailer by the time I get it livable), which is conveniently within walking distance of a bus stop (On basically the only path by foot I could manage in this town, by some voodoo magic).
The public transit here is... minimalist. The government said they needed it, so they commissioned some buses, wrote some regulations to keep their work to a minimum, and called it an "economical transit system". Based on my research (which may or may not be accurate, since this state doesn't seem to believe in keeping its online information up to date), I could in theory access the mall, Wal-mart and ... city hall? from that property. I'd still need to learn a good deal (I mean, I can get to the parking lot across the street from the bus stop. I might even be able to find my way to the bus by scurrying across the street and hiding by a sign or something until I hear an idling diesel engine. I could even figure out when it's stopping somewhere useful. I would be pretty much stuck as soon as I step off the bus, though. And how would I even find what I'm looking for in a store without help and/or a super iPhone?).
This doesn't account for all the places not on the bus routes, though. Even in the unlikely event that I wind up at a place that uses sidewalks intelligently (those appear to be scarce, here), I'd need to tell Home Depot from Radio Shack from Shoe Carnival from Peer1. (... those might have been bad examples. Shoe Carnival smells like shoes, and hardware stores are kinda obvious, especially at the sidewalk level. But I think you get the idea.)

Going back to school is probably not a bad idea. Or at least, it wouldn't be if I wasn't already in $80000 of debt from the last time I botched that.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-01-16 22:20:59

You aren't going to survive without public transportation, unless you happen to live somewhere where you can walk to everything you need and/or want.  On account that this second option is usually expensive...you aren't going to survive without public transportation.  Sad, but true; mine is an order of magnitude better than yours as far as I can tell, and it still sucks in comparison to what I could get and isn't enough to let me do everything.  I'm looking at Colorado, San Fransisco, or Portland currently; Colorado and Portland are the best that I've seen, simply because both have some sort of light rail/train system that comes every 10 or 15 minutes that can get you lots and lots of places.  If public transportation lets you theoretically get to groceries, then it only theoretically does so quickly, and good luck with milk, ice cream, etc.  Also, if you go alone, you're only going to effectively be able to carry so much.  With some practice, you can learn to roll one of those two-wheeled collapsible carts, but basically plan on doing it once a week.  And yes, I know that owning property and/or a home is an advantage and reason not to leave.
Depending on the organization, it may be possible to get  the iPhone from them in a number of ways; asking for it outright, or perhaps classifying it as a mobility aid because it can function as a decent GPS.  The iPhone and Blindsquare are effectively a Trekker, with the added benefits of continually updated maps (some areas more than others) and it works anywhere without buying more (the Trekkers made you purchase for any and every state you wanted, let alone other countries).  It's not super helpful in day-to-day travel, but for new areas, bus/train rides, empty parking lots, or being totally lost, it's indispensable.  Apparently apple maps even does walking directions, but I have yet to try that one.  And do note that you can add "turn left here for <my favorite place>" to BlindSquare easily enough, and track it from any distance to know how close you are, etc.
    From what you've described, have you considered rethinking how you do navigation?  Looking at the games you made (one day I'll manage to figure out how to play them reasonably), you've got spacial skills.  I don't know the correct term here, I almost want to call it visualization skills.  Basically, don't record yourself traveling from A to B, and then memorize only that path, try to figure out the "shape" and "size" of it.  If it helps, and it did me until i got to a point where the diagrams would really need to be complicated, try drawing and/or making tactile maps of the area you are in somehow.  Find an art store or something, and you can probably cobble together some sort of kit for it; perhaps cork board, thumbtacks and rubber bands. I would say that making lists and navigating off only them is not right for anyone, but from the software I've seen of yours, a higher level approach might be better.  Talk bout the city or town as a whole, and imagine blanks that you can fill in as you get lost (yes, really-I've learned parts of my campus that way).  Also, if you're serious about this, maybe consider walks a few times a week, and maybe consider intentionally going a new way that you've never tried before.  Rule one for me is this: try to remember what you did, so that you can go back.  The key here isn't to not get lost, it's to be able to at least marginally un-lost again.  Unfortunately, it comes with practice; I remember how bad it was until I started doing that (getting lost was the end of the world, and I was terrified of being separated from the person I was with).  And do take a cell phone with you-that's the most important part, especially at the beginning.
    As for college: it requires one of two things.  First, skill and patience.  This is the path I took/am taking (I graduate spring 2015); sub-standard accessibility, readers, and extra work and, in hindsight, I kind of wish I hadn't.  Second, either a lawyer or very, very good "you must give me this because of this law" skills.  You can replace both of these by going to a university with the ability to do necessary alt text conversions and the like, but those are somewhat rare (and I also wish i had done this).  Not as rare as you would think, however.
    I've told you to try leveraging programming before.  Here's the thing.  I'm 100% certain you could pass FizzBuzz with only a couple minutes of thought.  This puts you above many applicants, at least according to a lot of stuff I've read, and quite a few of my classmates.  Java is big, and you have experience with it.  You can say that you have experience writing "games with alternative interfaces for those with visual disabilities", "experience making accessible applications", or some other variations on that.  I leave choosing to apply to an actual accessibility position alone-it's actually not so straight-forward to make an application accessible and typically involves COM (C++ black magic, basically), but if you think you can then...well...who's more qualified than a blind programmer?  Also, perhaps Google Summer of Code, or volunteer on projects to build your resume.  There's also contract work; I personally know one blind programmer who is successful off of that.  I need to go take some of this advice myself, lol.  College or no, it's at least a viable option for you.
    One thing about college, disregarding anything about you specifically: the campus can be remarkably blind-friendly.  You've got all sorts of restaurants and facilities.  Mine has on-campus health facilities offering all sorts of stuff, a pharmacy, a food court, at least 3 eating options outside the food court, etc, and it's all walkable  with sidewalks.  I am in Florida, one of the less urban parts (it's urban, just...well, not compared to lots of other places), on a university that is a lot smaller than many.  I've heard of finding all sorts of stuff on college campuses, to be honest-even a full grocery store.  Some, with dorms available, are integrated into the city, so you basically have a downtown apartment with access to everything you could imagine for half the price and no utilities.
    This has gotten quite long, but since this is probably going to become the share independent living tips thread, I'll add this.  One thing I have had success with, and it doesn't work for everyone for a reason that should be obvious, is teaching someone to teach me areas.  You obviously need someone, and you need to be able to learn it quickly.  This can range from walking it once because you happen to be going somewhere together, which is enough for some routes and some people, through to explicitly asking to go out and get help finding something.  Family member/friend/whoever, and it doesn't have to be obvious or explicit, even.  Just move the focus from "help me get to place" to "help me learn how to get to place" in the future, and provide explanation of what it means to be blind and help them learn to convey information as you go along.  It's not so much of a conscious procedure as it is a viewpoint, and the rest just sort of falls out of it.  It may or may not work for you; it worked for me, and is consequently something I think I aught to mention.  It can be as simple as always asking questions about landmarks; know someone long enough, and they'll start answering before you ask in the first place.

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Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2014-01-16 22:58:56

camlorn wrote:

Basically, don't record yourself traveling from A to B, and then memorize only that path, try to figure out the "shape" and "size" of it.

Ah, the recording was me vaguely hoping I could get usable sound effects out of it, or something interesting at least. (My laptop situation at the time... well, I went with the early 1990s technology, if that tells you anything. No, it did not turn out usable. tongue.)

If it helps, and it did me until i got to a point where the diagrams would really need to be complicated, try drawing and/or making tactile maps of the area you are in somehow.

I actually asked someone if there was anything like this available for my area. I was surprised when the response I got was "Why would you need it? Just take a cab." (Surprised because of who it was from.)
(The maps in the JF IM Adventure, Mario, and those meant for LC were all designed in braille with a PACMate. That would probably work poorly for something more real-world, though. If there were a way to turn real maps into Swamp maps, on the other hand...)

And do take a cell phone with you-that's the most important part, especially at the beginning.

The general strategy sounds very good. Prerequisites appear to be a cell phone and someone to call in case of game over. All I have is my parents' versions of those, which... do not strike me as worth it. (Trying to clarify. Attempts keep getting mindkilled. Aborting.)


I've told you to try leveraging programming before.  Here's the thing.  I'm 100% certain you could pass FizzBuzz with only a couple minutes of thought.

Yep. I tossed it together in under two minutes (and only then because I kept backspacing over whether or it should be 0 or 1-based when starting the loop). Cut it from the post because no cheating on your online applications, guys.

Java is big, and you have experience with it.  You can say that you have experience writing "games with alternative interfaces for those with visual disabilities", "experience making accessible applications", or some other variations on that.

What I do not have, however, is:

  • Any Linux power at all.

  • JNI experience.

  • Experience with databases, mysql or otherwise.

  • Any idea how to use the java networking package (I have no idea where I'd find that in the docs, but I guess I could find out with a simple Google search).

  • Any professional experience what so ever, and short of teleporting into the good graces of Google, I imagine that will be a necessity.

  • experience with applets (I've always done stand-alone applications)

  • a single instance of getting a program I made to run reliably on other computers running the same OS (I started working with BGT for a reason, after all). No one's been able to get to the bottom of this one (I've asked lots of people. The closest I've gotten to information is someone on Swamp managing to tell me exactly what error a file was giving, which still leaves me baffled but is finally some direction... and it was within the past few weeks.)

Aside from Linux, those are things I've found on listings for java programmer positions. They're also things that don't interest me enough to study in far mode.
On the other hand, I guess I could try to get a hold of an Android and write apps for it.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-01-17 01:11:23

the android app thing is interesting in that android accessibility currently sucks, but *may* soon get better.  That's a big, big may though.
If you want a job, you're probably going to have to learn things you could care less about, there's no denying that.  You could probably get some JNI experience if you wanted, which can add C/C++ to your resume, and in all honesty Linux isn't hard at all, though developing for it necessitates learning new libraries.  Also, fork is the coolest thing since sliced bread, but windows doesn't have it which sucks.  If you want fun Linux experience, find a mud you care about and code for them (I need to go put my month-long horror story on my resume, summarizing it as "experience fixing  memory access violations on Linux.").
Thing with cross-platform for you is that Java is very, very, lacking in the multimmedia department.  You're using javax.sound, as I recall from another thread where you posted some code; I don't believe that's wildly popular, or even popular at all, and the javax namespaces are kind of strange anyway.  As I recall, some of them aren't included with the runtime, or something.  Also, java isn't intended to be packaged; we're all supposed to go download the rather large java runtime.  Until I get Camlorn_audio out, the only other really good alternative for that so far as I know is C++, statically linking everything you can.  More burden on the programmer, but less on the end-user sometimes (also, shared_ptr gives you reference counting, boost gives you shared_ptr if your compiler is too old, and manual deletion can now be replaced with that, but I digress).
    That doesn't matter though.  An actual physical job as a programmer will not ask you to design an app from the ground up.  You'll be on a team, and tasks will be delegated to you in some manner.  The thing is, studying these things will make you an order of magnitude more money than professional phone-answerer; I've never heard of anything below 50k, and it's usually more than that, with benefits. 
But it doesn't matter.  You have written a game.  A game without graphics, but a game all the same.  95% of the students in my classes, who are going to go out into the world and get jobs, have trouble with simple things.  It's only the 5-10% that even succeed at a running game.
I said Google Summer of Code, but may have been wrong--you may need to be in college for it.  You could still probably get small contracts, or try for programming bounties.
I'm going to stop ranting on the CAE should try for a programming job now.  Just know, at the moment, your resume is probably better than mine; I've got experience with a lot of little bits and pieces, but no actually released projects.  If this isn't something you want to do, I understand that, but...such a good opportunity, and you're already more than halfway there...
I will attempt to not bring this topic up in future.  That is all.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2014-01-17 04:02:19

You know, this topic, and others I've either seen or participated in, has brought up a gripe that I often have in these discussions.
There is never any objectivity in these matters. While a lot of it does come down to personal opinion, and I'm not trying to dispute its value. Anecdotal experience is what a lot of people thrive on.
What bothers me very much is that, for such a tried-and-true program such as NFB philosophy, why are there no statistics?
You would think that there would be a way to compile things like success rates. Interview students the day they leave, and ask them what their goals are, then contact them in several years and ask if they were able to attain those goals. There are other factors that determine whether or not a blind person is employed, and success doesn't have to equal employment, but I really want to see some logic here. Something that tells me exactly why NFB philosophy is as great as it's made out to be.
I'm tired of reading starry-eyed reviews--it's frankly enough to make me sick--and that doesn't scream true independence to me. That screams that you have an agenda, that you're a follower, and that you can't speak your own mind without someone holding your hand.
I don't think this is the NFB's fault, though. There are other training centers all around the country, and none of them are ever really represented.
I think that A. actual research needs to be done to define tangible success rates, and B. a database of sorts should exist so that this information can be easily accessed by anyone with enough inclination to do a Google search. I've seen people go into training centers time and time again, not knowing what to expect, and in the digital age, there's just no excuse for that.
Along with the statistics I'm speaking of, there should be a list of centers and descriptions of what each one offers. There could be testimonials, since people do respond to those. And there could be a forum where you could write about your experiences, ask questions, and have knowledgable people, either center graduates or, ideally, staff or other professionals who work in the blindness field, answer them. Also, I would not want anyone's experiences to be censored. If someone had a negative experience at a center, there's no reason why they should have to keep silent about it, no matter how much shame is attached to speaking out. Speaking of that, I think this website could potentially include schools for the blind as well, and anyone who posts can remain anonymous.
There could even be a quiz of sorts, something to gauge your readiness for training, your resolve, and other personality traits. And it could try to match you to the best center based on your answers. That's not foolproof, of course, but none of this can be 100% right all the time.
See, I don't think that the NFB is the be all, end all, no matter how strongly they promote themselves. The reason that they hav such an upper hand is that no other organization or program is speaking as loudly. Of course, they shouldn't have to fight for dominance, because fighting for dominance isn't really something I associate with being well-adjusted, but this is America. And in America, we advertise. We try to convince everyone that our product is the best there ever was and OMG you just can't live without it.
A website would help this process to be much more objective. I guess something like a Wiki would work, although I personally think that Wiki pages look sloppy. The website should definitely have some visual appeal--nothing extravagant, mind you, but something that will pull people in and implore them to read.
Once the project really got off the ground, I can see no reason why other countries can't put their two cents in, either. It would be highly interesting to read about training programs in other countries and how they differ, if they exist.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

2014-01-17 16:05:45

So, I finally found this:
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.c … tfAGftPxn8
(There are related organizations linked after the main report.)

The NFB's score is mediocre at best. Colorado Center for the Blind scores a tier higher. There are a few other schools/organizations listed.
I'm not sure that the presentation here is entirely accessible; I was left kinda guessing what half of what I was reading meant. Maybe you need to read the site's FAQ or something.
(It took digging deep into the Google search results to find this. NFB mouthpieces clutter up everything related to them.)

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-01-17 17:30:34

Colorado is nice.  I've been.  I can't speak to their center, but it's apparently popular, and is also a popular area for blind people in general as far as I can tell.  Great public transportation, too (I'm sure everyone now knows what my criteria number 1 is for ideal living environment).
EternalPower17, here's a thing.  They don't need nor want to compete, not really.  This isn't a product that you pay for usually.  In addition, it's not normally a product at all-your organization is going to have their favorite training method/facility, and is going to shoehorn you into that.  Also, given that you don't pay, they're kind of dependent on funding and money from other sources in most cases. So...the let's run this as a business logic kinda goes out the window.  Also also, a lot of people are going to go to the closest anyway, and the density of blindness training centers isn't really one on every corner, after all.  To top that, the organizations (i.e. the NFB) that would normally rate them already have their own or already have a favorite, making them very non-neutral.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2014-01-18 05:07:32

Yes, I see where you're coming from, but a website like I'm proposing wouldn't hurt. I don't really have the technical knowhow to start such a thing, although I'd be willing to invest time in moderating the forums, writing to training centers to see if they're interested in providing any kind of description or testimonials, and anything else that would be needed, as long as it didn't have to do with building the website itself.
I think you have a point, but I disapprove of the fact that a lot of people will say that the NFB is the only way to go. I know there are abysmal training centers out there that are non-NFB -affiliated, but they never seem to get the same fair treatment. My personal feelings about the NFB aside, I think it's time that someone tries to remedy this situation. I want people who want to attend training centers to make an informed choice, to know, as much as humanly possible, what they're getting into.
I think, and I honestly mean no offense by saying this, that many people run off to a training center without thinking through the whole decision first, just because they want to escape an undesirable or stifling situation. I've known people who have done this, and come out worse for it. I can relate to it myself wanting to be anywhere but here, but that is no reason to just dive headfirst into something as momentous as this. I'm not saying that anyone here said that, it's just a huge reason why there needs to be a comprehensive resource such as the one I'm thinking about.
On a side note, I'm sure lots of people will try to flock to the Colorado training center now, seeing as how pot is legal in that state and all.

The glass is neither half empty nor half full. It's just holding half the amount it can potentially hold.

2014-01-18 12:09:56 (edited by CAE_Jones 2014-01-18 12:12:05)

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Turtlepower.
I'd start such a thing myself, had I the prerequisites (in this case, I think they're slightly higher than for all the other stuff I'd do myself if not for <excuses>.).

All of Camlorn's points are bothersomely true, though (hence, the WSB trial).

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-01-18 18:22:46

CAE_Jones,
I can absolutely understand your desire to get training, and it sounds to me as though you have the right mindset for it. In addition, you're doing the right thing in questioning locations, techniques, philosophies, all the things that should be important when choosing to spend 9 months of your life getting training.
I worked at BLIND Inc., the NFB training center here in Minneapolis, from March of 2010 to April of 2013, and I would be more than willing to help in whatever way I can. I know, given some of the content of this and many other threads I've seen abroad, that there are very mixed opinions on the NFB and consumer organizations in general, and I completely understand that.
My goal in writing this, though, is not to proselytize on the NFB or a particular training center; I'm sure you've seen plenty of that elsewhere already. My hope is that I can provide some information from having worked inside the system, plus my general experience working in consumer advocacy, to help you make your decision and clear up any questions you have.
I won't pretend to have all the answers, but if I can help, I'd like to.

2014-02-25 14:19:00

So, I've been at WSB for a little over 3 weeks.

I'm... slightly less terrified of using a stove?

I don't know how much mobility can fit into the rest of this week, but I feel like it's mostly just been testing what I already know, rather than anything I could really gain from. We did walk an area with no sidewalks, thank the light, and hopefully we'll do something with buses today.

Mostly, it's been a recap of everything I did in elementary school. If you've lost your vision later, or didn't receive proper training early on, it's a good place for the basics. But I don't feel like I'm going to leave here able to leave my home on my own, or travel unfamiliar environments or anything like that.
Now, yeah, it's only been 3 weeks. But the impression I get is that, if I stay on, it will be for a vocational program, and at most, there will be another week or two of cooking classes. And, yeah, I'm glad I got those, but efficiency, man! If I'm going to spend half a year or more stuck in an overly rulesy place with people with whom I share only lack of eyesight in common, then I want to come out of it more powerful than I was when I went in. And while getting better at fixing computers in just 4 or 5 months sounds nice, I'm not sure if it sounds nice enough to justify it for someone as introverted as me (I have no interest in working a call center, to put it lightly).

What I'm wondering is, though, does an NFB center do better? From the sounds of their graduation requirements, the answer is an emphatic "maybe". It's portrayed as a 6 month program, but I'd rather not waste a month showing off and learning little more than how to use a stove. (can we throw in a mop and a broom, at least?)

I've been considering going back to college, too. I'm wondering if I couldn't get more out of my time that way (especially if I can find someone to just give me the NFB's mobility graduation test repeatedly until I am become ninja).

But at this point, I'm lost enough that I'm not even convinced on the rational-seeming strategy of just leaving WSB after the evaluation.

So I suppose what I need to know is: seriously, is the NFB's training awesome enough to be worth me spending most of 2014 there instead of desperately trying to beat myself back onto last year's schedule?
I have to assume they cover everything WSB has covered, at least. But do they go farther? How much farther? How quickly? What kinds of restrictions are involved with living on campus? can I take off the sleep shades when I'm not in class? Will there be some actual manics around so that the place is more motivating and less depressing when compared with WSB? Will there be [strikethrough]cult[/strikethrough]Group meetings, and will they be as annoying as WSB's?

Do we have any NFB Center alums to provide anecdotes or answer questions, hereabouts?

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-02-25 15:45:29

Hello Cae.

I don't have any personal experience of either of these organizations for obvious reasons, but one thing I would suggest from reading your posts is perhaps you are too much taken up with other people's criteria of what is or is not useful, rather than finding things that work.

For example, I am not clear by "stove" exactly what you mean. If you mean the  rings on the top of the oven where  you put pans to heat, then  that is something I personaly never use (with the exception of pasta), simply because I cannot trust my spacial coordination t things like pouring hot liquidis or handling frying.

However, I do vegitables in the microwave instead, and  have a slow cooker for making chillies, stews, casserols and the like, (since this involves chucking all the ingredience in cold and then leaving the thing for six hours, there's no worries at all, plus it does an absolutely awsome! chilly).

If I want to do something that usually needs frying such  as bacon, sausages, burgers etc, well I use the good old George forman.

I do use the inside of the oven quite a bit, as in throw stuff on a tray and chuck them in, but I've got a pair of   kevlar gloves for this, (yes they are actually kevlar), so have zero chance of  burning my hands even if the oven is on full blast.

Using  these devices I can cook a variety of things, albeit I don't spend as much time cooking as I could do  though that  is more because there is only me to cook for than anything else.

So, to be brutally honest I'd ask what exactlyyou want to achieve and how is the best way of doing it, rather than deciding whether you can pass someone else's test or not.

I also confess personally the black sleep shades and no  mobility aides thing from the nfb gives me the absolute creeps, since frankly my spacial perception is bloody awful! and if I had neither my dog nor my remaining vision, I'd seriously worry about even falling down an inside flight of stairs, ---- and I have a great misstrust over step counting since I don't have the spacial perception to judge the distances inv involved, and without my sight or at least a cane I'd lose a lot of my landmarks.

Regarding mobility, well there are  fairly straight forward cane techniques to walking in areas without pavements, indeed the center of durham has none,   and though a guide dog is a superior solution it's not a necessity. However again I would question the need for someone else's assessment, indeed personally I found many of the people   imployed by local counsels etc to be involved with such assessment to be utter prats because they had no practical idea of what was! possible or what techniques were needed.

Regarding busses, well that is frankly a pain, and I confess I personally avoid busses entirely as much as is humanly possible, indeed there is a big campaigne going on in  Britain at the moment to get speaking announcements on all busses as opposed to just some, and that is really the only circumstances under which I'd use a bus. Then again you've said before that in your living area it's busses or bust as far as going anywhere goes,  however again I'd see about getting  some specific assistance with this area rather than getting some general sort of mobility test taken, since with busses if there are no audio announcements you will need to find some clues as to when to get off, and those will be specific to each bus not generalized. All generalized technniques will teach you is how to get on and find a seat, but that won't help you specifically with your local busses unless you know when to get off.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-02-25 17:29:21

Stoves are fine.  I'd not suggest trying to do a complicated recipe with one, but simple stuff-well, no big deal after you get over the this is hot bit.  I boil stuff all the time-pasta and the like-and can do hamburgers/taco meat if the desire is there. I'm of course not limited to these items-anything vaguely similar usually comes out okay.  For me, the biggest problem isn't safety but rather knowing when things are done.
Formeman grills are a godsend, of course, and the oven is no big deal if you get some good oven mitts (you probably do not want hot pads).  Microwave, obviously, is doable.
Talk to the WSB people and ask them if they'll do more advanced mobility.  That's my advice.  Also, if you consider what they're having you do is basic, then you're ahead of the usual student, I'd say.  And since they claim successful students come out the other side, well, yeah.
For buses, we do have spoken announcements in the US.  It depends greatly on where you are.  Denver had spoken everything, including ticket kiosks.  Florida manages to have some spoken stuff, and I am told and strongly believe Florida is backward, so finding it if you want it is more than likely doable in the US.  That said, Blindsquare is a godsend for public transportation.  Blindsquare is a godsend for everything.  You can also ask the driver, but success with that varies.  Avoidance of the bus is not an option save in very specific and uncommon living situations.
I think that, if you can do better than a vocational program, you should.  I don't know what they're going to have you do, but fixing computers is actually not the most blind-friendly of jobs in the first place, and probably only pays minimum wage.  The problem with college is that if you start and drop out halfway through, you leave with nothing that anyone else will recognize-you have to go all the way.  From my experience, looking around before trying college is a good idea; with some looking, you can end up somewhere that can give you Braille and really good disability services.  I've got okay disability services here, but almost no alt text conversions; for anything that is math or science related, alt text is super, super important.  before I found this out, everyone was telling me that a sighted reader was the norm; I found out over the summer that this is only a Florida thing, and that if I had left the state for the right place I'd have had it.  Unfortunately, I'm too close to graduation to do so.  If you're not confident in your mobility skills, I'd suggest holding off.  College campuses tend to be very large environments and, depending on where you are, may not be gridlike.  That said, college campuses can be some of the safest environments for a blind person: everything you need for living should be close, and some colleges even have on-campus health services; people are wandering around all the time; you don't have a lot of violent crime in many cases; and traffic may or may not be uncommon and/or used to pedestrians.
@dark
Spatial perception can be worked on.  This isn't an innate skill.  My understanding is that the sleep shades is to try to make you work on it.  If you've got partial vision, then it's best to have these skills: your vision will probably get it wrong at some point.  I've done the sleep shades thing, and with enough vision left that it actually matters.  If nothing else, it does help with learning to trust the cane and/or other mobility method.  When I got my first guide dog, they were doing it, but didn't when I got my second; I think that this difference may or may not have to do with the fact that I was in the minor class the first time and the changes to their program about 2 years ago.
Partial vision and landmarks does raise interesting points about guide dogs, too.  I wonder how common guide dogs are among the totally blind vs. the partially blind.  I do use some of my remaining vision to look for things sometimes, but kind of wonder if it wouldn't be easier for a totally blind person to find those kinds of things with a cane.  Thinking back, I don't actually remember how many totally blind people were in the class with me.  There were definitely some, of course.  I'd be interested to see statistics on this kind of thing.

My Blog
Twitter: @ajhicks1992

2014-02-25 20:50:54

@Camlorn, interesting that all busses in the Us have audio announcements. In the Uk it's really only something that has started in the past few years, and the only place you can be %100 certain of getting audio announcements is London. In many other areas it is left up to the company, which makes it practically useless since I'm not going to get on a bus and risk having no audio, I'd rather pay for a taxi or use something like the train or metro which always has announcements.

I gave up on the ask the driver bit when one didn't actually bother and I finished up about half an hour out of my way.

Regarding vision and spacial location, well with me it goes a bit further. I suffered brain damage at birth, and though I haven't had many of the defects that most people have, my spacial perception is considderably worse than most blind people's. this is one reason I got very familiar with using a cane since often even if I could seesomething with my remaining vision I'd end up walking into it unless I got a clear indicator stop, ie, hitting it with a cane. This is also where I developed the land marks method for  navigation, since rather than relying on my faulty spacial perception, it worked on something I know that does work, my memory.

Not all my landmarks are visual of course, some are tactile, some audio, some even smell based, but equally some are  visual, thus I'd lose access to a  certain category. This is also where I've found a  guide dog helpful since I no longer have to be constantly allert both for landmarks and obstacles, and can concentrate on landmark  location and memorization while reever does things like walk around people, I also can trust reever to do things like find certain  objects such as doors and stairs rather than having to work out a landmark system for locating them, ---- for example instead of having to find a ticket keosk in a station by tracking the wall until i found a landmark such as a glowing hoarding or a passage out, then turning to find it, I can simply ask reever to find the counter and she will.

This is why I personally am  not a fan of that system though i do see the logic.

Regarding colidge, I agree on university campuses being easy to navigate. four out of the six universities I applied to were all campus based, and ironically I went to one of the two that wasn't.

Then again one advantage I will say is that living in a city university has let me work around a city and then find a flat when i could no longer live in colidge residence, which has worked out well, albeit I'll likely be commuting around the country  soon attending oppera school.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2014-02-26 01:35:59 (edited by Cinnamon 2014-02-26 01:40:40)

This post is probably going to be zero help since you're looking for advice on training centers, and I've never been near one. But here are some tips and things I did when I was leaving home and learning. Many skills only come from practice and experience.

Spacial perception is important. Touch the cold burners of the stove. memorize where they are. Learn your clocks; 3:00 is medium high, 6:00 is medium on the stove dial (generally). Practice pouring a full pot of cold water into a strainer sitting in the sink basin so you can get the feel of the space. Kick everyone out of the kitchen and explore it. Feel up all the appliances. Reach into the cold oven and learn where everything is. Touch the heating elements. Pull the racks in and out. Feel the rack grooves along the sides. Feel the space in between the top and middle rack.

I started out cooking from cold to hot. I'd pour in a little oil (my grandma told me a cap full). I'd cut up the hotdogs, put them in the pan, and only then turn on the stove to medium, or whatever. I knew they were done when I felt them being crispy against my stirring tool. I did a lot of taste testing at first. I probably ate some raw hotdogs. I've tasted undercooked pasta. It taught me what times to use in future.

When using the oven, wear long sleeves. Get an elbow-length oven mit. Pull out the rack, do your thing, and then push it back in and close the door. I blistered my arm once really well before I learned about pulling the rack out.

Let your water cool before straining if you're nervous. Even today, when pouring tea into a pitcher, I'll let the pot cool so I can brace it against my arm and hold the pitcher steady with my other hand so I know where it is.

I was terrified of being burned at first. With practice, I learned how to carefully explore. When looking for the edge of a hot pot, I'll hold out two fingers and aim to hit the edge lower down on my finger, not the tip. Practice with cold pots first. Eventually, fill all four burners with cold full pots until you can find them with relative ease.

You need to become comfortable with the space you're working in. Practice as much as you can safely with cold nine by thirteen baking dishes in and out of the oven. Because you have to use both hands, those can be tricky. Realize that bad things will happen, and it's ok. I get popped on my bare arms by hot grease pretty regularly. Now that it's happened, I'm not nervous about it. I've singed my fingers on pots before, so now it's no big deal. I probably overcook my ground beef, (for ten minutes), but I want to be very sure the texture is good and crumbled so I know it's done. You will rely on exact timing at first. Something may say to bake for twenty minutes. You'll eat it, it won't be done, and you'll know in future to cook it longer.

In summation of the ramble, I love cooking. I love the kitchen. I taught myself to cook by first becoming very familiar with my flat-topped stove and my oven. I worked with cold things first. I think that's an important first step to overcome the fear of being burned. You have to be comfortable and familiar. Learn your kitchen like you know your house. You don't have to flail around to find the fridge. When things are hot on the stove, reach with care, and try not to use your fingertips.

I hope that helped slightly anyway.

PS. I read in a book somewhere about exploring with vertical movements, not horizontal. When working on the stove, try not to reach horizontally with your fingertips. Think more about multiple gentle touches downward with more of your hand.

Sugar and spice, and everything ....

2014-02-26 04:31:36

At Wanderer: It may have been mostly bitching, but it was glorious, glorious, relatable bitching. A lot like what I would have said when I was 17 if I'd realized what a mess I was in. ... A lot like what I would say right now if screen readers and the forum settings could render strikethrough correctly (I only just recently realized how wonderful a gimmick it can be for satire, so long as it isn't overused).
Halfway through your post, I considered that you might benefit from WSB... then I read the rest of it and decided you'd almost definitely hate it. smile

At Dark: I'm not too picky about which specific cooking implements I get good at; I just want to not live out of the microwave (getting my life expectancy up is going to be tricky enough without processed preservative-bathed stuff making up a huge portion of my diet). It just so happens that all we've gotten to so far is the stovetop. I still wouldn't try to tackle the oven at this point (crockpot maybe; I haven't actually examined the controls on one, yet).

The idea of the NFB sleepshades bug me, too, and my vision isn't really even useful anymore. But really, I don't particularly like having my head obstructed in general (even if it's a mask or helmet with eyeholes. Something to do with... I dunno, hearing through the face?). I don't think it's a bad idea for them to be required during classes, necessarily, but it sounds like they might overdo it to the point of unnecessary medical risk.

Buses are pretty much a necessity, though. Passenger trains in the US are hardly even a thing, outside of the biggest cities like New York and Chicago (and I think a huge portion of the east coast is connected by train, but I don't live near the east coast, so feh). If you're lucky, you might be near an Amtrack station. (I was kinda bugged to discover that my town--in the top 5 in the state, size-wise--doesn't even have a grayhound station. I'd need to get an intercity cab to the nearest one (about 55 miles away), and that'd be more expensive than taking a plane from our dinky little airport that only flies between here and St Louis.) This is a country where you're pretty much expected to drive, period. It's quite frustrating.


What I'd like are generally applicable skills (Or at least a smart phone; Blindsquare sounds worth a serious look). The last time my parents went to Disney World, they ran into a blind guy there on his own (I wouldn't be surprised if this was during the NFB convention; they hold them in Orlando, IIRC). Meanwhile, the most independence of travel I ever had was at college, and that was limited to campus, and took a great deal of getting lost in the quietest part of the night to figure out. (Disclaimer: tried to avoid getting lost during the day. Helpful people are annoying as often as they are helpful. Emphasis on "tried".)

It's interesting how little my parents know what I'm capable of, mobility-wise; my dad freaked out when I tried to cross a (very) quiet street by myself (meanwhile, getting to the health services building at college was actually kinda scary, what with having to cross a parking lot and a moderately busy street. There's a much busier street that runs between the oldest part of campus and the newer parts, but there's an overpass for that, and recently they added a tunnel, not that there was ever congestion on the overpass. Heck, even when the Sword fighting club had a huge event there, with people locked in mortal combat running all over it, there were no civilian casualties.)
In spite of this, I'm pretty screwed if I try to go anywhere I don't already know. And I don't know much of anywhere that isn't a house/school. (Though I might could manage at the Magic Kingdom, at this point, for whatever that's worth. )

So, yeah. I have been thinking I should try to see if I can talk my mobility instructor at WSB to let me play on hard mode. I like the NFB mobility final test; it sounds like it gets the job done (but see: everything NFB online ever is propaganda, so who knows if I'm reading it right). I doubt the NFB hands out iPhones to all their students, so even without that sort of money, there must be a way to do better.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-02-26 14:35:09

I made a list of questions I have for training centers (tailored more for NFB centers). It wound up longer than I expected. I'll go ahead and post it here, and see if anyone has anything to add/criticize/suggest/answer/etc.


1. Efficiency. 6 months is a long time. I expect I've got a chunk of the starting skills. Can I expect my time will be used efficiently?
2. On the other hand, free time. Will I have to put aside software / networking / creative aspirations, or will there be time for those?
3. Over-the-top scenario: someone dumps me in the middle of Ontario, and I have to find my way back to campus. Can I gain this power?
4. My only support network is immediate relatives, which is unpleasant. Will I be able to break away from this?
5. I don't want to move to a major city. Will I still be able to travel (mostly) independently?
6. Rules and restrictions. Just in general. One can learn a lot about the people they'll deal with from their rules.
7. WSB hasn't even touched cleaning and repairs. My property is a spider/ant/mold haven. Will I learn how to correct this?
8. On average, how many people are enrolled at a given time, and what are the demographics like? Age, gender, education, home state, etc.
9. (Addendum to 2) What's internet access like? I don't object to "not much", if there's, like, a Starbux I can use ~once or twice a day.
10. Culture. I am highly resistant to assimilation (which has its ups and downs, IME). What's the memetic landscape typically like?
11. I need control over my life more than I need a job, but positive income would help loads. Can I expect advantages on that front?
12. Can I have a million dollars? (Just thought I'd check, just in case.)

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2014-02-26 15:58:34

@Cinnamon, interesting and good  thoughts. I did a lot of what you describe in terms of using cold  implements while learning, I also did as you said with cooking times, and checking food. Another tactic I've often used is poking things with a fork to check if  they're done, that works well particularly with things  like chicken, indeed on one occasion at my  tabletop rp group one of my friends who was cooking that night  actually couldn't see visually the colour of the chicken  due to a very red sauce, so that skill came in handy big_smile.

I would personally disagree on  using the inside of the oven and shelves being harder than the rings on the top, or at  least that is what I have always found myself, I would also highly recommend  chef's gloves over conventional oven mits. When i do pasta (the only thing I tend to do  consistantly on the rings), I can actually position the pans on the rings while hot with the chef's gloves on, which helps considdrably. 

I also have a rather whacky process for  straining water from the pasta, involving a sieve virtually the same  size as the pan, sticking the handles of the pan and sieve together and holding extremely tightly so that nothing but water can come out, then turning the hole thing  upside down over the sink.

With knobs, well while guestimating can be accurate (even for me), to be honest if it's your kitchin it's not so diff difficult to mark the knobs with  braille, or indeed bumpons, in fact I don't know if you can get bumpons in the Us but they're hugely useful for lots of appliances from cookers to washing machines, they're basically round dots of rubber with glue on the back. I have braille  lables every 50 degrees, and if something say needs 225, getting the halfway point isn't a problem.

I agree with  you on hot liquids. When I started at university, I decided to give up instant coffee and switch to the propper stuff, however my liquid level indicator wouldn't fit over my cafeteir, so I started using my finger tip and slow pouring. These days I actualy  haven't  used an indicator  for boiling water for  literally years,  whether I'm making coffee, tea, or using boiling water in my cooking. I have had one or two scolds, but nothing that a minute under the cold tap didn't cure, indeed I'd feel a bit weerd using an indicator now even though there was a time I used one constantly the specialist school I went to even had custom built indicators which had one bleep for the amount of milk, and another for the amount of tea or coffee irrispective of preference, and wow betide you if you wanted something different, which is pretty typical of a certain sort of blind behaviour.


In general I could  do more serious cooking than I do do, but when there is just me to cook for there never seems point doing anything hugely elaborate, making a serious chilly or spag bol is about as far as I go.

@Wanderer, sorry, missed your post previously. One thing I have noticed about  certain sorts of mobility instructors is that  they often believe there is one and only one way of doing things, and if you don't adhere to that way,  you are some sort of criminal. I for example had one terrible lady who once tried to insist! on step counting.  Therefore I'd suggest myself that you considder using some alternatives.

The land marks method for navigation I use for example,  relies on the fact that I don't use complex spcial maps, either tactile or internalized, and rather than trying to remember  my position with respect to a larger absolute space, I simply remember a set of landmarks and turns.

For example,  there is one particular university building (the union society building), near the cathedral. I have no practical idea where it actually is in space from  my flat, but I know if I use the  major crossing near the bank, turn left along the pavement (going up hill), walk along a grass verge until i find a path, go right along that path, carry on straight, up a flight of steps and a steep cobbled street between two buildings, across a small alley, turn right next to a low wall, walk forward, turn left up a small alley keeping to that same wall (actually the wall of the Cathedral grounds), then turn right find some more grass until i hit some steps, that! is the door of the union building. I have absolutely no practical idea where in space the building is relative to the crossing, but by memorizing directions, and signifyers, and also taking note what happens if I miss those landmarks, I know I can find it every ime.

What struck me on this method was your mentioning of tactile markes, since that is exactly the sort of  information I'd take note of and use myself.

regarding straight directions, well there are ways to minimize veering such as for example putting your feet with both heals back against a flat surfice before you start, and also using either sweeping or cane tapping in front of each leading foot since that naturally will keep your body in a more central place, however most of the time if you know what landmark your looking for across the road, and what happens if  you miss it, a little  diagonal won't hurt.

About jobs I'm afraid I have little advice, however one thing I will say is about motivation. No, life isn't fair, however you pretty much have to either fight with people's prejudices, or resign yourself to  sitting around and doing nothing. I'm not speaking of employment since that    set of loaded dice are bad for pretty much everybody and worse if you've got a disability, but any  form of vocation or anything seriously worth doing in your life will take dealing with various obstacles, people's attitudes not the least.

It is however just because! it's hard to do that means you have to be dam sure you want to do it, so personally I'd recommend having some experiences and looking around for things that interest you in doing before committing a lot of energy, rather than   getting taken up  just with the "I must have a job so I suppose I'll do this" type of thinking.

@Cae, well appliances help, but it is working out what you can do with them. In colidge during my masters I actually had! nothing but a microwave to cook with. This had nothing to do with blindness but was a result of some nazi fire  safety regulations, (I actually finished up  smuggling in a george forman at one point just for variety).

However even with a microwave there is more than just ready  meals to do. For example, while I likely could! cook rice on the top of the stove, I don't particularly bother since there  are some very good dried rices that are quick to do in the microwave and  go just as well if I make a curry. Also, if I  decide to  pick up something to chuck in the oven like chicken breast in sauce, well I usually microwave  vedgitables to go with it.

Regarding the  crock pot aka Slow cooker, well all the ones I've seen are like mine, and have pretty simple controls, basically a dial that can click into four positions, off, low, high, and warm. There is also a guide light which changes in brightness, but this isn't necessary, since putting a dial two clicks to the center isn't exactly rocket science.

the only major issue with the crock pot is when whatever you have done is done, you need to lift the pot out of the heater. This is again where my kevlar gloves come in useful, and of course making sure I know where I am going to put the thing.

Regarding mobility, well unfamiliar places will be a problem for most people, there is no magic formula, though i will say a guide dog can be massively helpful in the situation for ability to find common place objects.

The major thing is just practice, practice, practice, and don't panic. While there are some standard cane techniques I've never really heard of any convincing tests that I'd trust, it's just a matter of doing the thing  repeatedly until you get good enough to do the things you want, and for that to be honest I'd recommend just finding some local places you want to go (or at least places within travelling distance), and going to them many times.

Frankly your parents just sound paranoid to me, and while I understand such attitudes they do sort of  get up my nose a bit just because they become infexious. Being blind is a pain in the arse in a lot of ways, but if you put in enough effort you can! usually find  a way to do things and go places.

Regarding travel arrangements, well it sounds like the states is  very different to Britain. Over here all major cities, and many smaller towns and even tiny ones, have train stations which usually have taxi ranks, thus it is fairly easy to get to most places by train, this is exactly how I went to a vocal performance course in London late last year, to a lady's house I'd never visited before, got the train, then took a taxi (after phoning the firm to  check that the taxi wouldn't rupture my bank). Busses are a cheaper alternative to trains, but are less regular and also as I said, have no guarantee of spoken announcements.

Perhaps what you need to do is A, find the way to whatever your local bus station is, B, find somewhere you want to go that requires a bus, and C, do that journey a lot!

My parents did this with me for years literally from the age of 7, doing the same route over and over again, then doing different  ones, which is why now I can usually find landmarks myself  even for somewhere less familiar, though before I got Reever I wouldn't  try a completely unfamiliar route on my own the first time, or at least I'd make sure I knew some of it and could build on what I knew in terms of landmarks.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)