2012-11-12 17:54:11 (edited by grryfindore 2012-11-12 17:55:04)

ahoy all
I have been going through all  the posts and a few podcasts from different places,and I have decided that its ttime that I moved on to a android or an Iphone. while I have heard a few podcasts, I can't seem to make a decision. on one hand the iphone seems something which will be pretty easy to learn and use,but its quite expencive at least where I live. I most probably wouldn't be able to get a Iphone 5 or 4s, however I could get my hands on a 4 or if the worse comes to worse,3gs or was it 3sg?
big_smile
on the other hand, android is really confuseing,with all these different OS's and whatnot,however the most importent thing, android seems to have a better market for apps,free or otherwise,at least from what I have noticed.and with the way things are,android may as well get loads of apps considering apples policies....
question 1: if I get a Iphone,is getting a 3gs or 4 worth it? what I mean is, will I be able to use most apps comfortablely on it?without taxing the hole system,and crashing it  again and again?
question 2: can anyone explain what and what version of android is best when it comes to accessability? and as we are on this topic already some suggestion for android phones? any phone will do,as long as it has decent features.
In android there are far too many phones and systems for me to decide from,at least it seems like it to me.
thanks for all the suggestions in advance!
edit. still can't get this pole to work...
sad
grryf.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, ‘It might have been.
Follow me on twitter

2012-11-12 19:26:53

all  the research I've done suggests that android is way behind Ios on the access front,  which has a knock on affect for games   sinse if there isn't the screen reader and audience, people won't be making accessible games for the system. Indeed, someone recently said androids so called "accessible" screen reader simply spoke the icons as you moved your finger across to activate them, meaning that to actually tell what was on the screen you needed to see the thing first which is pretty dire.

So, while I take on board the price issue sinse Iphones are not cheap, and  apple are a pretty evil and domineering company over all, (though that may change in the future), in terms of access solutions,   software and games I know what choice I wanted to make myself.

Of course, I'm going purely on the matter of A, research, and B, what I wanted the thing for in the first place, which is  basically to have fun with! I love the sound of various aps, gamebooks and such for the iphone, where as android just doesn't seem to have half that amount of stuff accessible, nor from what I've heard is the screen  reading comparable to voice over. Android might be  okay if you just! want a phone and don't care as much about games and ap's, I don't know, and it might be that my research was incorrect but this is very much the  impression I've got, hence my own choice in  the matter.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-11-12 19:42:54

Well, considering that Nexus 7 seems to be the best with Android 4.2, which you can learn about A11y with android 4.2 more here:
http://support.google.com/nexus/bin/ans … er=2692467
,, it is sad that games for androd devices have not been as extensive.

2012-11-12 19:52:23

Well, my wife recently had to replace her phone, and she decided to go for an Android phone. While Talkback does work, a VI user can use it, I'd agree that Android is behind Apple iOS in terms of accessibility. For one thing if you don't enable certain accessibility features in settings, which are not enabled by default, you aren't going to get very far with Talkback. With IOS as soon as you enable Voiceover everything is accessible and you don't have to worry about if this or that setting is enabled. An evil empire Apple might be but they know their business when it comes to accessibility, and I'd personally lay down my cash for an iPhone before an Android phone based on my limit experience with the two.

That brings us to the issue of apps. The irony is that because Android is a modified version of Linux Android is a completely open platform for app developers. Unfortunately, do to accessibility being behind iOS not many game developers are writing accessible games etc for Android. From what I can tell all the really cool apps and games are for iOS, and because people are willing to invest time and money into iOS devices its becoming a self-fulfilling  statement that iOS is the best mobile platform out there for VI users. So while Android is an open development platform it doesn't have what iOS currently has to offer a VI user. I'd be interested to hear what a dedicated Droid phone user has to say on this subject, but based on my experience the iPhone seems like the better choice.

Sincerely,
Thomas Ward
USA Games Interactive
http://www.usagamesinteractive.com

2012-11-12 20:30:21

I completely agree with the above postings, and would like to take it only a bit further; IOS is easy to learn if you have the time.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2012-11-12 22:17:25

iOS: Easy, pricy, evil, more easily-located accessible apps
Android: hard, cheap, maybe-not-evil, not-so-easily-located accessible apps

Eeeeeeak, I'm gonna suggest the option with the least probability of success by pointing out that Android won't get more accessible if we keep pointing out the benefits of iOS. tongue

I think I came up with my plan... just now...
if(needby && !feelscreens) buy(apple);
else if(needby && apple.hasFeelscreens && !google.hasfeelscreens) buy(apple);
else buy(google);
... but I don't think that answers your question. :-/

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2012-11-12 22:20:54

I agree that iOS is, from what I've seen, far better.  Apple even has extensive Braille support, which was a big winner for me since I have a Bluetooth-capable display and use it for most day-to-day tasks on the phone.  I do wish, though, that Android had better accessibility, mainly because there are so many phones with superb hardware and form factors that, as a blind person, I can't access, simply because Google isn't doing what they should.

2012-11-13 00:07:46

I think Cae hit it on the head though; there are too many people in the blind community who are not willing to participate in pushing for the accessibility we need and simply wish to conform for the sake of making life easy and without hiccup of any kind.  While I myself have participated in the hoard of individuals who have stated emphatically that apple has an accessible and easy to use product, I've seen many handheld devices I wish to use but cannot because they aren't readily available with a screenreader and features to fit my needs and or the needs of any other blind person, and I can't help but blame that fact if only slightly on the lack of driving force provided by the community as a whole.  We have the power to change many things, but very rarely do we ever come together to set a goal, let alone accomplish it.  I have seen too many a time where we instead quarrel and rant and rave about which is better than which and what is bettter than what else and who should use what and where you should use it and you're stupid if you don't and you don't know how to because I said so, and so on.

Apple didn't always have an accessible iPhone; I wish everyone would remember that.  Did they always have it in mind?  Who truly can say, but there had to be a spark of interest in there somewhere, so I see no reason why we can't push for it elsewhere.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2012-11-13 01:43:39

Unfortunately nocturnus, that is not the way business works.  the question of access to devices is pretty much the same as the question of access in games, ie, there aren't enough consumers to make it worth a company's time.

Recently, (tom has the more precise details), the Us government issued a  law stating that blind people had the right to access of information. this was I believe the driving force in establishment in a lot of access software in various os and devices. The difference with apple as opposed to google, microsoft (as far as narrator goes), and other companies is that apple actually took the time to do their job properly and design something really! accessible, rather than make a vague gesture in the direction of fulfilling their legal requirements. I am not sure what prompted apple to do this, but sinse they have, it is a good thing and it can't be denied that it has worked in terms of providing a highly useable system and lots of accessible  aps to boot.

However companies like google and microsoft aren't like some small indi dev such as the creator of loraeon where I can just mail them and say "oy mate, if you labled those damnable images it'd make blind people's lives much easier!" (or a politer version of same).

heck, i've not found a way to  contact google about their blasted audio captures, let alone! a fully accessible os.

ultimately the larger the company the more selfish and unreacheable they are, and the less they  will care if a few thousand blind people can't use their products so long as the law is served. yes, apple went the extra mile which is a good thing, but we can't expect as much from others.

Perhaps Being! open source there is a solution there for androidif someone would be willing to work with some open source devs, but how getting that onto the main distribution of the os that google and co distribute with their phones I don't know, and you still! have the problem of accessible aps that use said speech, and it's unlikely that one person, or even a hundred people could kick up enough of a stink to be heard by the mega corporations who probably don't care about access anyway, and until things change at source, people aren't going to start buying inaccessible stuff in the vague hope it will be accessible or creating half accessible aps for a community of players who aren't there.

so, while I would agree there is indeed a circle here, ---- welcome to modern business practice!

You can choose either to buy a less effective system in protest and the vague hope that it will make some difference in the long run (and as I've indicated that is a very vague hope indeed), or just go for what you! want out of the device, and focus your elements on stuff you are! likely to change, eg, game access, or talking to the developers of particular aps who are likely small enough to be receptive and reasonable.

Myself, i know what choice I'd make on this scale, sinse I personally still view technology as there to serve me, not the other way around, but if you want to make the moral choice, fair enough.

This is the same reason I stick to windows xp and haven't gone lynux, much as I think microsoft are the  scum of the earth, sinse ultiamtely it serves me! better, and if I do! have windows, I can help to make windows programs and games more accessible (as I have with several entries that are now in the db), for the macro issues, well that is exactly what I've just spent the last five years writing about, and hopefully by adding some reasonable points of   view to the debate on di disability generally, I can influence the legislative actions of the British government (sinse they actually do! read papers on ethics when writing such laws), and it's only really law that has the power to  sort these corporate scumbags out, and even then,  not all the time and not unless politicans are prepared to do their jobs properly and not just be the pawns of the prophiteers.

Other people like tom go with lynux for moral reasons, and I could understand someone trying android for the same way, and fair enough to them, ---- I just confess it's not the choice I would personally make sinse to me it just seems like personal denial for little to no gain, albeit for a very worthy and just reason, and I'd rather try to fight the battles I can or try to come at such problems on a more professional level than just having a boycot for the sake of one.

Still, it is a choice people ould chose to make,albeit that they will be missing out in the  process.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-11-13 06:07:38

ahoy all
first of all,thanks for the suggestions.
The most votes are for apple,then.I guess.:D
things that I have noticed.while IOS has accessible apps/games[ I may just buy it because of this reason] the app store can be a problem.as I have heard that the apps available in each apple store are different? like US may have so and so app,but say,the russian app store may not have that app at all. so I am not sure if after buying a IOS device I find out that most of the games/good apps are not available in my countries app store at all. that'll be such a pain,that I may just throw it away.
tongue
does the android market has such limitations? and is there a way to get around this app store location business in apples stores?
I don't really mind searching for, and downloading different applications to make my device accessible,I don't mind if it comes packaged with the needed software,or I need to go and download them myself,as long as I am able to do what I need and when I need to do it.
so basicley anything with android 4.1 and that beens OS is accessible? seriously,who comes up with these names?jelly  bean? really? lol
I don't want the phone just to make calls,after all,my nokia can do that quite adequately. smile. I am swaying more towards Apple but we'll see.
ahh yes.the voices,another con to apple, whilst in android devices one can get loquendo voices, ivona, and the rest I am not sure of. in IOS you can only get a few nuance voices.I could be wrong, but that's the impression I got from all the reading I have done.
Android doesn't seem to be that bad, at least not from what I have heard in mister rego's podcasts.but they were posted a few years ago,so things would've changed,and for the better I hope. big_smile
now only if it had games which were accessible....
thoughts? comments?
grryf.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, ‘It might have been.
Follow me on twitter

2012-11-13 09:43:30

Well on the ap store thing grryf I think it depends more upon the particular ap and the majority are available everywhere. There are some that only are available in specific countries, but the research i've done suggests this is less than a quarter of the total.

the only game for instance that I've heard  has such a requirement is the nightjar which is unfortunately only available in the uk. I looked up king of dragon pass myself during my time playing with an iphone, and so I know! that is available.

As to voices, well I don't mind realspeak, indeed realspeak daniel is what I use myself, though I don't know what would be available in  Denmark on that score.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-11-13 09:51:15

Google's open app market _should_ encourage innovation.
The issue is the signal-to-noise ratio. Because Google doesn't have as strict a filter as Apple, there are a lot of junk apps out there, whereas Apple's filter process shoots down a huge chunk of the noise and makes it easier to find gems.
There's also brand loyalty and such to Apple's advantage. Then there's a possible way the developer fee can work to their favor: developers willing to keep paying for that license are more likely to use it and try to get quality apps into the app store.

Hmm, I wonder how one would go about integrating talkback into an Android app. Java seems to be one of the popular programming languages for Android (though my attempts at finding tutorials on the Android-specific elements haven't been particularly successful...).
... I want to make games for Android, is what I'm saying. tongue.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2012-11-13 10:08:19

Grryf:
The iPhone is expensive, but you'll get a very usable, accessible, and easy to learn interface. You'll get lots of accessible apps too. An iPhone 4 can do most things accept for Facetime via 3g and Siri.
android: Well, welcome to the world of confuseness! android, jellybean, version 4.1 is very accessible, and does work very well with the touch screen. But yu'l experience siturations where you need to get sighted assistance to get speech back, parts of the operating system which isn't accessible, screen reader crashes and just lots of confusion when it comes to choosing your device. that's a question of stuck Android and costumized Android. Costumized Android can brake all accessibility so badly, so you'll flee screeming away, while braking all devices running android on your way. that goes from pretty usable devices to devices which are totally inaccessible because of interface changes. So you really have to make some research when choosing an Android device.
The cool thing about android though, is that you can simply do whatever you want. You can install whatever app you want, by simply putting it on your device. On an iPhone, you have to do this from the App store. In Android, you can simply do whatever you want. If you don't like a feature, well, just find a replacement. smile

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
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2012-11-13 18:09:10

I use android and I dont think I could go back to using an iphone. I used a 3gs for over two years, and at first loved it. As time went on though, I steadyly got more anoyed with certain aspects of the phone. First of all you had apple's  extremely strict control over the built in voices on the phone.  Voiceover only has the one voice per language and if you don't like it? Too bad... Get fed up with it? deal with it. On android, you have a tts service that anyone can develop a voice for like sapi on windows basically. People have ran with it too as the play store is stocked with voices. Even espeak is there. Apple's control also extends to what you can do with the bluetooth module on your phone You can connect to keyboards, braille displays, headsets, docks and hands free kits. What you are forbidden to do is transfer files. This really really rangled me I payed a stupid amount for the phone, and apple are dictating to me how I use my bluetooth? I am the type that takes photos, As stupid as that sounds, and being unable to  share them with my friend who is sitting 2 feet away from me just because apple won't support file transfer over bluetooth is frankly stupidity on a level that I was unaware of. File transfer is present and correct on android, and it's not going away anytime soon. I am the type of person that loves to throw a book on to my phone before heading out for work in the morning. Itunes is the spawn of satan imo and apple should really cut ties with the damn thing I used to go through the plug in to itunes, hunt a book down, tick it, sync it and off out rootine. Then I kind of thaught to myself, this is stupid, not is this only stupid, but it's needlesly complicated and a waste of time. A sit down and 10 minutes of googling armed me with the information I needed. Jalebreaking will allow you to do such cool things as free you from itunes, Well for transfering music anyway...  queue frantic downloading and manual reading. So I broke my phone out of jale with the metroid victory music playing in the background. Once you've done that though, you will enter in to the cat and mouse game with apple. You get out of jale, apple send increasingly well armed bad guys after you to get you back in to jale You get caught and escape again, The whole thing begins a new. My android powered device let's me transfer over media how I choose and I don't have to jalebreak. I will cut my ranting  short and say that apple wins in terms of accessibility It's what they won't let you do without jumping through a bunch of hoops that drove me off. It's worth saying that google's accessibility is fast catching up though, and it will soon be viable for everyone regardless  of the bad reviews that seem to get put out their.  It's not their yet, but the traid offs you make in access  are worth it for getting a device with all the functionality possible without things being disabled or underclocked etc

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2012-11-13 18:32:24

that is true about the restrictions to the iphone, and it does nark me that I have all this music and books on my pc that I cannot transfer because apple insists on what I do.

for myself though I just view the Iphone as a device for playing games and doing fun stuff, and in terms of games, accessible  gamebooks etc, not to mention some utility stuff (I'd love to get a talking Italian dictionary) the Iphone won the race for me. I might indeed follow aaron's suggestion and buy an mp3  player instead, or just carry on with my laptop for playback purposes. I have no intention of installing or messing  with itunes until it becomes necessary.

this was ultimately the decision for me.  given that I am not throwing away my laptop or expecting my Iphone to replace it, would the  fun stuff it could do make  it worth while? for me, the answer was a distinct yes, especially when it comes to gamebooks. For others it might not be, and I can quite understand  those who want apple's evil restrictions gone.

My personal  hope is that with more and more people jail breaking their phones or turning to android for the lack of restrictions, apple  will relax, especially on the file sharing front sinse that is becoming a major thing, but we'll see what happens in the future.

For right now I'm quite content to have it for the games and aps and fun things, and leave propper access changes to legality.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-11-14 06:44:34 (edited by grryfindore 2012-11-14 08:02:53)

ahoy all
good one,Exodus. those are my concerns. I need a voice that I like,which is risponsive,and doesn't mispronounce often,or at least sounds good. alas, if there isn't a nice voice that I'd like in there,I wouldn't be able to enjoy stuff. that is games apps,etc. reading books I wouldn't even think of by useing any of those voices no matter what. I guess ivona has spoiled me big_smile. the only voices I'll read with are the Ivona voices and eloquence[which I know isn't available for any platform.]. if it weren't for the voices and weather or not I'd be able to get all the games/apps I see for Iphone around I would have chosen apple already. edit: so can one view the US store and other countries apple stores? so that I can look in the applestore of my country to see how good/bad things are.alas,I do hope that apple improves in the years to come,but that's it. just a hope. tongue
while I can deal with searching for and downloading apps which make the phone as accessible as possible,I wouldn't be able to deal with the sighted help part for getting the speach back,or with a crashing phone. I don't live alone,supposeing that, it shouldn't be hard for me to get sighted help,but alas. the other day I borrowed a android phone and told  one of them   to help me activate talkback and all,but they refused there is not much one can say to that,so I'd rather not.
how's the accessibility app that code factory have developed for the android?
ahh yes.when you buy apps from the apple store,and android markit for that matter,what options do you have to pay? credit card? or what.
I had a few other questions too,but they seem to have flown away for the moment,so if and when they decide to come back, I shall either edit this post,or create a new one.
grryf.
ps. the way I'm feeling right now to buying a android or an IOS, apple 60% ,android 40%.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, ‘It might have been.
Follow me on twitter

2012-11-14 08:53:22

i live in romania and all apps that i wanted i am able to find in the app store.
jail breaking is now legal, and if you jailbreak you have access to all files and you can install what apps you want on your phone.
and the good thing about jailbreaking is that if you don't like your jailbroken version you can just restore your ios and you will not lose your warranty.
i will jailbreak my phone i am just waiting for a jailbroken version of the 6.0.1

“Get busy living or get busy dying.”
Stephen King

2012-11-14 09:39:03

Hi.
I don't have much time so I'll answer questions later on if others don't catch me on that. smile
Exodus: I truely agree and I do see your point. The bad thing about Android is, that here in Europe, the phones with buttons are extremely limited, so therefore it's difficult to get a phone which just works. That is going to change when Jellybean is being rolled out on new phones though, but that's the main reason for I have been unable to check out Android until now where I've got my Nexus 7.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2012-11-14 09:46:39 (edited by grryfindore 2012-11-14 09:48:51)

ahoy there
while I don't exactly know what this means ahem the exact details that is,this has me worryed.

Please note, iTunes Store purchases, iPod (PRODUCT) RED and Apple Online Store are not available in India. Podcasts and iTunes U content are available from the UK iTunes Store.

can anyone please,explain? I mean what's that mean,what's available and what ain't.never heard of Itunes U myself.
if it means what I think it does, alas goodbye to IOS
sad

Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, ‘It might have been.
Follow me on twitter

2012-11-14 10:15:37

Well grryf,  I wouldn't balance what is available in denmark by what is available  in india, sinse their are often restrictions placed on india and other countries by the nasty compannies, look at how nobody from iran can use paypal for example.

From the research I've done, it seems that the majority of aps are available all over the  world, certainly when I  had chance to try out an iphone the games I looked for such as King of dragon passshowed up nicely, despite them being american and me being in the Uk.

I think it is just very specific! aps that depend upon the individual maintainer, indeed I don't think this hole question would've come   up if, for some crazy reason the night jar wasn't restricted to the Uk. So, 

As to voices, well I am quite  happy with realspeak myself, it's afterall what I use  for my own sapi. I'd actually recommend trying! an iphone in  country, and having a look at  these things, then you can here the voice and see if what aps you might be interested in are in the aps store.

As to restrictions, well myself I'll wait and see what happens with  apple on that score, though i wouldn't be above jail breaking my phone either.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-11-14 15:15:32

ahoy there
at dark: denmark? well big_smile The country I live in is India. joy to liveing in an developing country instead of  a developed one. then I wouldn't have to worry about certain things. like the apple store,for example. as for voices I agree,to each their own,but apple apparently doesn't agree with that statement. smile.but for all that,I must say,that what apple has done is good enough,in turms of accessibility. look at the nokia screenreader,for example. even though they appointed codefactory to make a screenreader for them, its not as good as talks,can't compare it to others as I haven't used anything else. besides mobile speak,and that was a bit sluggish.
well to be honest, nokia screenreader was tooo slow. I didn't really use that as much before uninstalling it.
grryf.

Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, ‘It might have been.
Follow me on twitter

2012-11-14 15:57:27 (edited by Exodus 2012-11-14 16:23:59)

if your after a good android phone in Europe with actual, clicky, pushy awesom buttons... Look no further than the sony ericsson xperia pro. It's got a slide out keyboard, and proper home back and menue buttons. It's also of capable of running CM 10 which is based on jellybean. As for the itunes thing... You really can't buy off the store in india? That's nuts. Mobile accessibility is verry fast and stable running on versions of android before v 4.0 Once you get to ics, You don't really need it as touch to explore is built in to the OS. I would recommend you stay the hell away from georgi. for 1 it's unstable as all hell, secondly the price is beyond crazy and thirdly it's only got 5 volume levels two of which are way too quiet and the other 3 are just way too damn loud. While I am all for access apps, this one takes the cake... it really does. Did I mention that you can perform 90 percent of it's functions for free?

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2012-11-14 18:09:23

My appologies there Grryf, I don't know where i got the idea you were in denmark from,   I even got the wrong hemisphere of the earth! that is pretty far out in the quite most literal sense! big_smile.

Maybe I should  try and get a job  with the  government guiding their missiles, ---- no mr. minister, it's not my! fault, nobody told me the targit wasn't in the middle of the   pacific ocean, well I suppose the only thing to do now is get around a table  and  make peace before I go and  mistake the location again  and  nuke glasgo! big_smile.

Actually that sounds like a great  way to  prevent world wars now I think about it.

I do fully agree  in that case that the best thing to do would be check the ap store and voice on a phone  set to Indian regional settings, sinse it is perfectly true that the major companies don't like certain countries (despite the fact that most of their products are made there).

Indeed, i'd generally always recommend trying something like this before buying. I spent about three and a half hours playing with an Iphone myself before I decided upon getting one, and checked it'd do what I wanted it to first.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2012-11-14 18:54:49 (edited by pitermach 2012-11-14 19:03:57)

The availability problem is more serious thn you think. I know someone from South Africa who had a heck of a time finding apps which everyone else takes for granted...

grryfindore wrote:

I most probably wouldn't be able to get a Iphone 5 or 4s, however I could get my hands on a 4 or if the worse comes to worse,3gs or was it 3sg?

In that case I'd really, really, suggest you stay away from iOS. The iPhone 4 is just now nearly the end of its life cycle and it's already pretty slow on iOS 6 (Ask Ghorthalon).
One of the reasons Android's had tomatoes and apples thrown at it as far as its a11y goes is that most reviewers were rather unbiest, written by long time iPhone users who expected Talkback to work like Voiceover and unable to accept a slightly different aproach. This is becoming less of a problem now, but as many people said Talkback is catching up, and we do in fact have direct contact with its developers. Meanwhile, iOS 6, as far as Voiceover is concerned, while adding a few interesting features has mostly been a downgrade. The voices have been changed again, and now Karen has occasional hickups and is much higher pitch than she should be, toggling VO off and on will always reset your language settings and audio handling is quite broken, instead of fading the audio out like it should, in most games it causes the entire audio to drop in sampling rate which lags the device and might cause you to miss a message.
Personally I also have an xperia pro and, for the most part, love the phone. That having been said I also got a new 5th generation iPod touch, So I can still play all the games available on iOS.

So if you still decide to get an iPhone 4, your best luck wold be to stay on iOS 5, but then not all apps are compatible and this problem will just get worse as Apple adds new API's. I'm expecting that iOS 7 definitely won't be on the 3GS, and most likely the 4 as well.
Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention that the iPhone hardware really isn't worth the price. The new iPhone 5, which has a dual core 1.5 GHZ processor and a gig of ram is priced from 6 to 800 dollars. Then, the brand new nexus 4 phone that just came out, also has a 1.5 GHZ cpu, but a quad core, 2 gigs of ram, and costs something like 200 dollars unlocked. It solled out in the UK an hour after it went on sale, and a few hours later in the US. Um... yeah, enough said.

<Insert passage from "The Book Of Chrome" here>

2012-11-14 19:18:12

It's also worth mentioning that apple have underclocked the CPU of the iPhone. It can only hit 1.3 GHz max. They have been doing this from the verry first moddle of the iPhone. As for reviewers of talkback , I have to agree most of them have went in their with this if it's not like the iPhone then it sucks mindset. People did this with voiceover on the mac too comparing it's operations with jaws for windows etc. I am sure the NFB even did it with iOS to start out with, and I know for a fact that the RNIB did it over here when the iPad came out. But if anyone was going for a droid, I would say nexus all the way. Completely astounding value I would have one my self... but as I wasn't sat in front of my pc when they launched I missed the chance to order. Now they are popping up on ebay at double the price they usually sell for.

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