2011-07-13 14:40:56

elliott, you start out with a few loaves of bread.

2011-07-13 15:09:25 (edited by CAE_Jones 2011-07-13 15:12:01)

That's bread from the initial supplies that washed ashore. You start out with some of each food group. You'll notice that eventually the bread runs out for good if you don't get a bakery up and running (I've never managed that myself...).

Oy. I thought I was doing well, but the goblins surrounded me to the point that I couldn't really divide up my people effectively between peasants and soldiers. I think at the end I had three soldiers and three knights, and five peasants... and three farmers.
It looked ok, but constant looks at my stores told me it was only a matter of time before we ran out of food, and if that didn't happen, the goblins had us completely surrounded. They only destroyed one house, but there was no chance I could spare people to build new houses. ... You know, I meant for that tactic to come into play in Sengoku Jidai, but it hasn't really happened...
(Surrounding people and just letting them use up their supplies, I mean)

Although, my first knight was named Athena... my third knight was her daughter, who I had be a builder until the guard tower was completed... and she wound up being the person who seemed to be putting the most effort into the construction of the tower. Methinks someone was eager to join her mother. smile

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2011-07-13 16:06:18

Well Cae, the second job ai doesn't seem to be working anyway, so unless you want your builders sitting around when there's no building to do or your doctor doing nothing when there's nobody sick, you need to chop and change.

In fact that seems the biggest secret to the game, probably the only job you always! need is a cook, everything else is entirely interchangeable according to what's going on at the time, though I would hope it's possible to arrive at a state where you can have your supplies of food and most materials stable enough to leave you with enough free population to engage in other projects and defense rahter than having to gang people in as extra lumberjacks or farmers occasionally.

I've actually noticed that the longer the game goes on, even if you don't have more people,people seem to eat more, ---- and I mean a loooong way on.

In the game where I got furthest with my 5 soldiers and lazy blacksmith, despite a bunch of fishermen, hunters and farmers my foodd supply was dropping even though I didn't have any more children.

I actually think the goblins are a litle insane currently, though that might just be because of the lumber and meat issues which are really getting in the way of building up any defenses at all with any sort of speed, particularly sinse the goblin growth seems exponential.

It'd be rather nice if the goblins were a litle more reactive to what you do, and to time. For instance, rather than their attacks being just constant, make them go in waves, so they come in, then go out again, then come in stronger etc. This would also mean you could go in phases of concentrating on building, then fighting, then building, and that you'd need to be much more careful with knight as they'd be useful during attacks but big fat arses otherwise, ---- just like they were in medeval times ;D.

This would also be a nice way to introduce different and stronger threats as the goblins learnt each season then went away to mass their armies, which was I believe how most invasions of the saxons and vikings and such worked.

I also agree with crashmaster, more reminders and such would be nice, though i think changes to the message system are on the cards, and Aprone has said sound effects are only temporary anyway.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-07-13 16:31:57

Good morning everyone.  Another day of bug hunting lies ahead of me.  Rather than just skipping around, I plan to completely remove the new AI code, and put it back in again!  Things worked fine before I added it, so clearly the problem is somewhere in there.  Hopefully I won't make the same, hard to find mistake on my second attempt to code the new AI behaviors.

I'm also really hoping I can finish up some of the new content I've had planned.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-07-13 16:56:12

Morning Aprone,
I for one look forward to your new content, whatever it may be.  Good luck, and good hunting.
Best,
Zack.

2011-07-13 18:19:43

Well, after tearing all of the new AI code out, things went back to working perfectly, as far as I could tell.  Instead of just putting the new AI code back in, I got to work changing the original AI so that it would have a nicer bond with the new features I was going to put back in.  I'm pleased to say, that after I finished, I played a game where I got all of the way up to having a doctor, and not a single error or bug with the people!  Yay!  We won't know for sure, of course, until I have my swarm of testers putting it to the test through.  Hehe, that's all of you guys.

I've added in a quick reference announcement, for when you highlight over buildings.  A tavern will say "Tavern. 5, 2, 0, 2" to give you a super quick idea of what is stored within it.  In this case, 5 meat, 2 bread, no vegetables, and 2 wine barrels.  Buildings under construction now also tell you what the destination amount is.  When building construction site are fully stocked, a message will let you know that it is time for the builders to take over.  And finally, when the game begins, all of your people start out as builders instead of peasants!  For the millionth time, I started the game out by switching everyone over to be builders, and it occurred to me I should just change that!  Now that the new AI is working, those builders will start out acting as peasants, so there won't be any job switching required, until you want to start specifically dedicating some people to be peasants (which is a good idea at some point).

Please grab version 0.6b and let me know if the bugs are finally squashed.  I'm already back to work on the new features, so hopefully I hear good news from everyone about this new version.  big_smile

As a side note.  Blacksmiths require 2 metal bars to make a suit of armor, so that might explain why some people saw their black smiths sitting around even when there was metal waiting in the forge.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-07-13 18:34:26 (edited by dwillemv 2011-07-13 18:35:41)

Hi.
I get a runtime error 13 after I enter my character configuration.
I started from a clean directory.

2011-07-13 18:36:12

Hi Aprone,
I can confirm this error, along with similar ones when I simply try and exit the game.  Type mismatch, apparently.
Best,
Zack.

2011-07-13 18:36:13

um, can we have an audio-recorded guide for this game?

i really get confuse in some parts of the game, and i'm just embarressed to ask all of them by posting
:d

twitter: @hadirezae3
discord: Hadi

2011-07-13 18:39:09

yeah a audio guide is good.

This is not a signature.

2011-07-13 18:40:29

Hi.
I think all of us figure it out as we go. Things are still going to change, because this is a beta. I'm sure someone will make a beginners guide when things are further along.

2011-07-13 18:45:11

hi,
I think aprone edvance the read me. add some more information, how to collect (create) brikes, lumber etc, and other stuff...

This is not a signature.

2011-07-13 18:55:15

Sorry about that guys.  Please download again to have that error fixed.  Because I'm also working on new stuff, I have to remove the new code for a moment, before I compile the versions I'm posting online, then I put my new code back.  I had left a single line of code in there, oops.

Hadi, Nocturnus is going to be releasing an audio walkthrough.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-07-13 18:59:29 (edited by dhruv 2011-07-13 19:00:16)

wow, a walkthrough is very good.

This is not a signature.

2011-07-13 19:19:21

this version sounds awsome and if the second job ai is working correctly it well might completely chang the game sinse I'll no longer be constantly switching people in and out.

as to walkthroughs, audio or otherwise, as was said, methinks we need the game at least some percentage stable first. My advice is just go ahead and ask your questions, ---- this is what this forum is for, no need to be embarrassed, certainly I've asked my share in the passed as has everyone here, and as you may gather we have no objection to explaning how things work.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-07-13 19:35:06

Dark is completely right, as usual, haha.  There really is no reason to hold back questions you have.  You might feel like everyone else understands something, but there's a good chance someone else is wondering the exact same thing as you, and they just aren't asking it either.  Also, some of the people here are understanding things so well, because they've been asking me questions on the side.  This is a rather complicated game, and it would be crazy for me to expect people to just figure it all out on their own.  Please let me know where you're stuck, or just say "I don't even know where to start", and we will help.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-07-13 20:12:58

Hi AProne,
A quick update is in order I think.  This version is excellent so far.  The secondary AI appears to be working perfectly, and my peasants are industriously working away, baking and building and fishing.  I have actually gotten to the point where I have a couple children, picking their noses and generally being entertaining.  This is the farthest along I've gotten so far, and I want to thank you for such a great piece of work.  Can't wait for new features!
Best,
Zack.

2011-07-13 20:30:26

Hi all,
ok, i'm at the point where i need to build a ship, but, i have no cloth, i built a textile, and asigned two taylors. they dont  seem to be doing anything at all though, just standing around,
any help would be apreciated, as i have the goblind under controll, having given birth  to 4 children, i have 5 soldiers, who are killing away.
all i need is cloth smile

2011-07-13 20:34:26

I think that making bread is way too hard in this game. First I need to build a wheat farm to make the wheat. Then make the mill to turn the wheat into flower. Then make a bakery. It is quite straightforward but this, I suppose, has taught me how ahard it is to make bread, lol. I also want a way to skip all the injurred people that can't do anything. Perhaps put them in a category of their own. Because in one of the games I played I was puzzling over why my logs weren't being cut into lumber and realized about 100 ticks or so later that the single carpenter I had was injured! to make things easier on myself, I put all the injred people on barrel making because I didn't really care about barrel making. Plus I feel like you have a very limited time to get things done because of the goblins.

I like to sleep, Sleep is good,
This is how I do it: Lie on a nice warm cozy bed, and dream dreams about how to rule the world!
Follow @TheGreatAthlon5 on twitter for humorous facts and game updates!
If you like my posts, thumb me up!

2011-07-13 20:36:35

Hi Aprone.

As zack says this is awsome, production is nice and even, and the secondary ai seems to work very well most of the time.

I have however found a very miner bug and have sent you a save file with it.

Namely, the secondary ai on builders was great for all structures until I got to a barracks, and they're just standing around looking gaumless rather than going and grabbing resources as they did with everything else, ---- maybe it's the metal?

I also wonder about the doctor, sinse I've just realized when there's no curing to be done and no cloth to transport he's just standing around too. I'd assume he'd be a peasant, though I could be wrong.

I also wonder how far down the chain things will go in terms of wine making. Will a bar tender go and make barrels if there are none, and will a barrel maker go and be a farmer if there is no wine to put in the barrels? I may just have to experiment with this and see what happens.

These are probably famous lst words, but the goblins seem a litle more peaceful now too.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2011-07-13 20:37:48

I think it really depends on where you build and what difficulty you set the game at.  I tend to build in the northwestern region of the map, land permitting, and that seems to give me reasonable time to get things done.  As far as bread making, it's tough but worth the effort in terms of food I think. 
I've never really ran into the problem of too many injured people myself.  I try to make sure I can designate a doctor whenever one crops up, so he can begin work right away.  Nevertheless, a category might be a good idea.
Best,
Zack.

2011-07-13 21:29:12

Keyisfull, it is true that bread is difficult to produce in the game.  Pretty much, you have 2 foods that are easy, and 2 that are hard.  Meat and Vegetables can be gained without the need for a chain, so they are most likely the first foods you will concentrate on.  I'm not sure if you've noticed, but a baker will actually produce 3 loaves of bread at a time, so once it actually is running, it is probably producing food faster than you realized.

Dark, I replied to your email.  As it turns out, the construction message for the barracks and ship had a typo in it, so it wasn't correctly telling you what supplies were still needed.  Your barracks site still needed 2 more metal, which you didn't have, so that's why no one was doing anything on it.  I've corrected the typo, and it will be in the next update.  As long as someone has the proper materials, they would probably never have even noticed the typo though, since the people still actually do the jobs they are supposed to do.

The doctor will only revert back to the stage prior to his own, on a normal chain of supply.  This means he will step in to fill the role of a tailor, but that is as far as he'll go.  Giving people the freedom to revert back to any number of jobs, would likely cause more problems, and would take even more decision making away from the actual player.

Ah yes, I forgot to mention that for the easy difficulty, I've made the Goblins 25% less aggressive with their expansion across the land.

I do plan to separate the injured people into their own category soon.  It is a good idea, and I would have done it sooner if I'd had the time.  Does anyone else ever feel like they're being buried alive?  haha, kidding.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-07-13 21:37:57

i'm struggeling to  figure out what to do, all materials except cloth collected, 8 soldiers keeping goblins at bay, just no cloth, and it seems no way to produce it!

2011-07-13 21:50:17

Robla, if you have a butcher, you will begin storing up animal furs from the animals hunters kill.  If you don't have a butcher, the furs are simply discarded by the hunters.  Those furs are turned into yarn by peasants, at the textile, and then a tailor weaves that yarn into cloth.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2011-07-13 22:07:49

Thanks aprone, good to know about the doctor. Does this also mean a bartender will rever to barrel making and a barrel maker to farming if it's down to the next stage?

I'll try the game and see what happens. Metal wise, I thought there was enough in the forge anyway for the barracks, otherwise I wouldn't have started it, I'll have another check and see what happens.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)