Well, interestingly enough, it was this little track right here that gave me any knowledge about phantom.  I owe it to these guys and no one else.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4392078/Nightwi … 0Opera.mp3

Call me biased, call me what you will, but I haven't heard a better performance as far as this goes.  I still believe phantom should have that ugly, grit of a vocal which matches the costume.  I'm actually not fond of any other modern versions, and haven't found any of the older ones to compare it with.

What I believe Nightwish was atempting to showcase is how this particular creation was another beauty and the beast senario.  Phantom, in this case, is the bestial figure in this plot that brings the gloom and doom to the opera we now discuss through his host, his subject of control, his only means of freedom, Christine.  She is his true voice, his only way out, his only way to express anything decent, any goodness about himself, and he, in return, enables her to sing the beautiful melody that makes her what she is.  His powerful voice and the power to allow one such as Christine to have it, his love for her,  and her voice combined are the phantom of the opera.  To represent his figure which we obviously can't see through an audio file, our Phantom, in this case, Nightwish vocalist Marco Hietala, was to sing as most every metal artist usually does, with the grittiest vocals he could muster, yet keeping it operatic if possible.

to further empasise this, let us take note of Erik's character.  It is necessary to understand that he is capable of any emotion beneath the mask that allows us to see nothing of him, but even more importantly, beyond the disfigured face that only gives us a dark hint of his past.  Within the true and hateful monstrocity that Christine unleashes is a tortured soul who has never been properly loved, even by his own mother.  It is necessary to realize that a kiss can express words that no other touch can bring to humankind, words that can never be uttered by speech, words that exist, but not in our every day vocabulary.  This does not complete his character, a character that expresses his love through violent frenzies and other inexcusable episodes, but as the song in question is only some four minutes in length, we cannot exactly give you the entire story in this one song.

As previously stated, I don't believe that i've heard any representation that clearly defines how the piece is supposed to be done, but my guess is that Nightwish is not close at all.  Still, my vote goes out to them for a different aproach, an atempt to capture the visual in audio with the graveyard gravel vocals that represent the bitter sweet of the metal genre, and the fairly well done operatic vocals performed by the then female vocalist Tarja Turunen, who has been replaced by someone who I believe can scarcely sing to save herself, let alone the band, but that's a story for another topic.

HI Dark,

Interesting subject, actually.  I was never allowed that phase as I always had older, wiser musicians than myself to keep me in check.  From the moment I began performing anything musical which occured some fifteen  years ago (goodness I feel so old and I'm only 23,) I learned to appreciate anything and everything that came my way for what it was rather than what I thought of it.  I myself will never claim to be a musical genius, but I have branched out in every musical direction I've encountered, and when ever possible, gone about fusing genres to make different styles.  this has resulted in both highly appreciated and unforgetable constructive criticism, and compliments from fans that I am truly thankful for, so much so, that I cannot think of any negative feedback from anyone other than my own mother who never saw me as anything other than her son.  during every performance, my mind has always been focused on them and what they appreciate as a top priority, occasionally throwing in a bit of hotsauce and other seasonings to balance the dish.  If it's too spicy, I kill the sauce in future.  If it's too sweet, well, we need more lemons for the lemonade.

My point here is that whoever my fans happen to be on whatever night come first, thus it is necessary to appreciate the music as they see it and to listen to it through their ears to do just that.  My preference is last.  This is why you'll find me listening to Morbid Angel one minute, Bob Marly the next, because when you truly love music, you'll break the barriers that exist between your preference and the world outside.  No, you don't have to like it.  No, you don't have to agree with it.  If, however, you truly believe in loving music as a whole, you must respect and appreciate it, remembering that one mans trash is another mans treasure.

To further illustrate this, I have often times played and sung things that others like and I have found lacking in qualities that would normally be required of a piece to keep me captivated, but the fact still exists that someone else likes it.  Someone else is cheering me on for doing it, and someone else wants me to do it again.  Who am I to deprive them of that privelage? Once I've lost that someone, I don't do it at all.

To conclude, I'm absolutely glad that you could appreciate the musicianship in this bit I've posted, even if you didn't like it.  Interestingly enough, this band is possibly my least favorite in the entire metal genre, but I was pleased that they tried to rap the entire story into this one song, even if they failed miserably.  Perhaps they did, but someone out there likes it, so who am I to say?  My previous post and what I think about the track may be completely wrong, but that is the beauty of opinions, and as I don't really know what Nightwish was after, I can keep speculating, for what I heard was beauty and the beast.

Wow, dark!  Your attitude seems rather cold and distant during performance, though this could be a flaw in my perception.  I hope you will forgive me if it is. :d

You have taken my statements out of proportion though.  I don't believe that everything is good just because the world says it is, and at any rate, unless I were an authoritative figure with the power to judge all of humankind, who am I to say that the world is wrong?

What I believe is actually more simple than that.  I respect everyone's tastes and will gladly experiment with them, regardless of personal preference.  I appreciate music as a whole, because on stage and on CD alike are individuals who, be it for the money, the fame, both, or neither and some other reason beyond me, are making something that inspires other people to listening, enjoyment, and even pursue their own inspirations, whatever those may be.  Regardless how stupid the selection may sound, someone is listening, and someone is liking it.  I don't have to, but I'm not going to say its garbage simply because i don't.

Also, I'm not a big fan of generalization.  I don't discriminate an entire genre or its subgenres based on one or two musicians, artists, bands, fans, or any other entities involved with it, prefering to give everything at least one chance before throwing it completely away as something I could care less for.  Every rule has its exception, and only those who patiently seek to find it succeed in doing so. 

As previously stated, I like to break boundaries and make my own rules to follow, not truly confining myself to anything other than the fans when it comes to music.

Why?  Because, without them, I am nothing.  I am a hopeless individual who will simply exist to perform my music for myself and anyone who gets close enough to hear it.  Without them, I am as helpless as a fish without water.  I go nowhere without the fans who drive me, who give me their support, who tell me what I need to hear to keep going, who remind me that I am something in their eyes, who give me that boost I need during hard times on and off stage with their applause, the ones that come up to me and shake my hand after the performance and tell me what they think of me and what I could do to improve, and every one of them counts.  Once I have none, then who do I perform for?

I am a one man band, a one man show with no other backing musicians to share the stage with, contracts that keep me sressing, record labels to tell me what I don't want to hear, or a producer teling me what I'm going to do to make him money and turn myself in to a comercial success.  I don't want success.  I don't want fame.  I want people to be happy, to come to a performance, and if possible, forget their lives for an hour or two while I deal them whatever release they are looking for in whatever musical manner I can.  I want many things that are possible, and many others that are not, but that is beyond the scope of this post.

Going back to fellow musicians, their input is gladly welcome, and criticism as well.  and, no matter what walk of life you come from, what genre you specialise in, if any, what instrument you play, who's club you were performing in last night, you could ask me for a jam session and I would gladly oblige, for I love to improvise as much as I love to perform.  this, I've done, gladly sharing the spotlight with other individuals/performers and adding my own touches to their masterpieces, hoping to be corrected if necessary, spoken to when necessary, and acknowledged if you see a reason to or care to do so.  Even though I do my own thing at most times, I never say no to performing with others who simply want to make music, and if I can't keep up with you or am not pleasing you, do feel free to get me off the stage.  Hahaha!

One thing that does irritate me however on the performing side of fthings is pure seriousness, the kind of seriousness that some performers tend to exhibit during their stage time in which they forget to have fun.  They let that serious streak ruin the mood for everyone else involved.  Yes, I am aware that there are different settings for different performances.  The people at a classical performance are less likely to communicate loudly during the show than the people at a Metallica concert, but that does not mean that as a musician, one should be completely subdued during such a thing.  I played cello for the middle and high school orchestras and often wondered just how many of my peers were actually having fun.  This was perhaps, the only time when I did things by the rulebook and to the letter, and that's fair as the orchestra is a complex body of musical making all united as a single instrument that plays as a single entity to perfection.  I knew that it was necessary to do my part welll because there were going to be those others that wouldn't, weather on purpose or otherwise.  Still, I never found myself not having fun, else I would have just quit all together.

I know this is getting lengthy, but since I've gone on about my musical career for quite a few words in this topic, I would actually like to talk about what I've had experience with. 

Performances include, birthday parties, clubs, weddings and their receptions, church gatherings and festivities, television interviews both personal and nonpersonal, school gatherings such as pep rallies, PTA (Parent Teacher asociation) meetings, graduation ceremonies, family reunions, and strangely but thankfully, I've been graciously accepted at all events except one where everybody and their mothers and fathers were christian fundamentalists who, though they could appreciate my talents, felt that I was using them for the wrong reason as I was not serving their god.

I have performed with a grand Piano, usually sticking to keyboards as primary tools.  Other instruments include accordian,drums, xylophone, marimba, guitar, violin, alto sax, and finally, piccolo.  My general practice is to pick up any instrument and play by ear and worrie about perfecting my technique later.  I have always played by ear and work on raw ability alone with little knowledge about music itself.  In the near future, I will be demoing material for anyone who cares to listen to these practices at work, and I offer it all freely in the hopes that my techniques will be polished in time.

Finally, I do sing my own vocals without any processing, though I would like to get my hands on a digital vocalist for fun times and other crazy effects that might make things entertaining, though I would rather not stick to them for too long.  I have a good enough knowledge of audio editing that works for me and my desires, a fair knowledge of DJ equipment, minor DJ experience mostly for friends, and am currently learning the art of broadcasting in hopes of having my voice heard on internet radio soon enough, all for fun, of course.

And this ends my lengthy post.  If you have not yet fallen asleep, do congradulate yourself on a job well done.  I lost myself after the first couple of lines and am not really sure what kept me writing.  I suppose part of it is that I'm in a rather social mood now, but I must stop.  BLEH!

Heh...
I totally love Tarja's vocals... not so much the male singer in Nightwish (I forget who it is...). From what I've read, they typically only have him sing when they really need an additional voice. I believe they've also said they won't be performing Phantom of the Opera anymore now that Tarja's out of the band.

Firefox had an odd reaction when I tried to read this topic. It loaded the page enough that I started reading through the replies, then quite suddenly gave me this message:

Odd--normally error pages show up when... ur... the page doesn't load... Hmm.

Again though haiden, I'd distinguish betwene usual, generic death metal which to be honest sounds pretty much the same and doesn't really have much of a theme, and some more experimental stuff which, while falling distantly under death metal's auspice, does something very different with the style, sinse the people involved have both the technical, musical skill and the individuality not to produce something which sounds the same as all the generic "raaaa! satan, bloody yelling!" that you get with other groups.

The only one which sort of springs to mind in terms of group names at the moment is beyond temptation, who are a dutch epic metal group, and therefore mix some of the harsh, extreme sound of death metal, with folk like influence and even bits of electronic stuf to create some distinct story and atmosphere in their songs.

In those cases, the growling vocals actually work.
I've actually heard a fair few others, but the problem is where metal is concerned I'll freely admit my knolidge is lacking, sinse usually I'm round at some of my more crazy friends hereing such things, rather than owning it myself.

I don't care for death metal in general. I think Maximum the Hormone is mostly death metal (or screamo, take your pick); I've only heard one song from them, and it happens to be about a certain galactic tyrant, so the incomprehensible roaring is slightly more forgivable (and there are some moments of actual singing amid it all).

And then there's Nightwish, which is more symphonic than metal. They were originally planning on starting a folk band, but decided that they needed amps to keep up with Tarja's voice. .

... But I'm generally not opinionated about many things, which as you can imagine makes carrying conversation difficult. ^^

And to me  being a metal musician, i find that pretty offensive

Hi,
Ok...so you are very closed-minded? I was simply giving my take on a prticular genre of music (and a relative one considering the NIghtwish discussion) and you decided to make things personal. That is ridulous.

I don't see why you should be so. Just because I like Pop music, doesn't mean that I'll start getting angry if someone disagrees with my view in particular.

No, the thing thatt annoys me is the fact that people will just dis-regard it. calling it garbage is, insulting. I may not like some genre's of music, but i'll look at it and apreciate the musical talent gone into it!