2007-07-02 20:54:37 (edited by cx2 2007-07-02 21:54:47)

True.

Still X-com is a very special game series. You controlled multiple men and had to move them around in a team to defeat aliens in battlea at a tactical level, though it also had a base management level for more depth. It had fairly detailed maps and use of cover was almost mandatory since your men were worse shots than the aliens, at least until they had practice and their skills raised.

Edit:
Think like combat in an RPG like shadowrun, where you control the whole team and are fighting in different environments with more military style gear. It is a low level down on the ground type strategy game in that form, the high level base management stuff is real time or time is frozen while in certain screens.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-03 01:28:36

Hmmm Cx2, it does sound interesting, ----- especially real time based management compared with turn based stratogy (this is something you could not do in text), perhaps the detail in the maps is also something that wouldn't replicate into a text coordinates system and would require scanning, ----- though looking at games such as Warring factions or gothador, I'm rather surprised at some of the detail people have managed to squash into text.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-07-03 01:30:21

Work complete!
SoundRTS 1.0 beta 6 is available in English at: http://jlpo.free.fr/soundrts
This translation of SoundRTS is not perfect, but I hope that the game is playable.

2007-07-03 18:11:07

Just tried it out, it is pretty good all things considered. Perhaps it could use a few extra commands to read say the enemies in a square, the friendly units, and the exits just to make navigation faster... one command for each I mean. At the very least a command to list what ways you can exit would be nice, as in the bridges and paths.

Dark:
I have no clue whether it could be translated into text form, but the maps were really big even though it didn't feel huge. It was more that it used tiles only big enough for one person, and an average room could easily be something like 8 by 8 including various items scattered about. This could be things like navbigation consoles in a UFO, furniture in houses, etc. And I am pretty sure the whole map must have been at least 150 tiles each way at the minimum surely. I'm no judge, it might have geen more like 120 but it is still a lot to fit on a web page and not easily done with a coordinate system for the whole thing without maps. In any case a lot of its charm in the tactical side was the sheer tension you felt, not knowing whether there would be an alien with a dirty great plasma weapon just around the next corner. The admittedly fairly basic music did heighten this some, an audio version would be more able to transfer this atmosphere I feel.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-03 19:45:14 (edited by dark empathy 2007-07-03 23:22:29)

Well, Gothador does fairly well with humungous maps in coordinates, some as much as 500 tiles square. However from your description it does sound as if the atmospheric elements of the game played a fairly major role, ----- also, as an exploration nut, I love the idea of wandering around that much space seeing what there was to find.

Now, on to sound Rts!

Appologies for not replying to this topic earlier, unfortunately I had some work to get in to my tutor fairly swiftly today, ----- and trying to balance that andsubpress my enthusiasm to constantly play this game was not fun. I certainly enjoy the game, though being as some of the manual is obviously stil in beta stage, it did take me a while to work out how the targiting system for commands worked etc.

As I said, I deffinately like the game, however sometimes I found the menue and targiting system slightly slow, particularly when selecting the wrong targit for a command and having to start giving it again. It might help if only the relevant targits would appear in the list for each command, ----- eg, when building things, the meado is automatically selected as the targit.

Then as Cx2 said, some overview functions would be extremely good, ----- perhaps also including messages. Quite often I find myself scrolling through four or five peasants just to check where they all are and what they're doing.

Also, I'm having miner trouble at the moment with attacks, sinse usually the enemy attacks first, and I have to scramble around to find which of my units has been attacked.

finally, I was wondering if you could please answer some questions, sinse there are several commands which I don't seem to be able to work out the function of, particularly reguarding military units. What, for example, is the difference betwene "go to" and "patrol to?" and what are rally points and the "mode deffencive" commands for?

I'm afraid i also have a question about the squares on the map. Sometimes, when in one square (whether controling a unit or not), I notice I'm able to pick up objects in the squares next to each, also, occasionally I use the "go to" command, and even though my object moves, it stil stays in the same square?

Many appologies for the questions and such, I'm deffinatelyc ertain things will become clear as I play the game (I've managed to get through the first two chapters thus far), then of course, being a beta version, perhaps the manual isn't as complete as it could've been meaning I had to work out quite a few things by trial and error. Also, sinse there haven't been many audio stratogies at all along these lines, I've never really had chance to get used to their workings. I'm certain though, that everything will become clear in time, and I'm deffinately looking forward to playing other people across the net eventually.

all in all I'm deffinately impressed with the game, and I can tell it's one I'll be playing for a good long while once I've got used to things.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-07-03 20:37:07

I can explain some of this.

Patrol is where a unit should go to the target location then back to its original location, if it is like the mainstream.

Rally point is the location units built by that building will automatically head to, so if you set the rally point for a town hall as a gold mine they will go straight to work there.

Mode defensive should make them run when attacked rather than standing to fight. Also note as the manual mentions this makes them forget their instructions.

Hope this helps some.

I too though had trouble sometimes figuring out which units were being attacked.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-03 20:40:43 (edited by SoundMUD 2007-07-03 20:45:21)

Thanks for your replies. Don't apologize for the questions, since I need this feedback!
I'll try to add the features you mention, even if I have sometimes some troubles choosing a good keyboard location for the extra commands.

Cx2:
At the moment, to know the exits you can use the arrow keys to check if you can move to the next square.
For the enemies, when you are attacked, use F5 to know the square of the last alert.

Dark empathy:
You will find the targetting system faster if you use the Backspace key to give the default order.
For the targetting of only the meadow for a building, you are probably right: in Warcraft you have to choose the location of the buildings (there was a funny noise if you chose the wrong location), but in SoundRTS there is not much choice anyway, so I'll try to simplify this.
When you select the "patrol to" command, the unit will patrol between its current location and the targetted location.
If you set the rally point of the townhall to a goldmine, the new peasants will automatically exploit this goldmine. (I realize that the tutorial doesn't explain this point clearly.)

2007-07-03 21:15:34

Thanks. The confusion in attacks was most often when I was busy doing building or checking on stuff, moving other troops etc. Otherwise it seems fine with the alerts, I will definitely try F5 next time though. Battles do tend to go quickly though, which I guess has its up and downsides.

The balance might need a little tweaking but overall good fun. An example is I'm not sure why you would use archers over footmen as things stand.

Perhaps in time it may or may not add to the game to include towers in a similar way to Warcraft 2, not on a meadow since they're so naturally perhaps limited to a couple per square? I've no clue how this might affect balance though and ultimately it is down to you to decide what to include.

Also perhaps some type of map creation option would be nice, even if you have to edit a text file to do it. This isn't essential, I just know as an example again Warcraft 2 and Starcraft both included this and it was quite popular. Not sure how the maps are currently designed or if there is any possibility for using notepad to create them though so if this is too hard just ignore it.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-03 22:32:11

hello
I like this game and played it today for a long time. I have a suggestion for a newer version: I like the
chapter system. What do you think about including a level or mission editor? So, the user could create
own missions, maybe with new enemie types or new soldirs and objects for you and stuff like that. So, the
game could be modified.
greets
Niklas

2007-07-03 23:10:46 (edited by cx2 2007-07-03 23:12:09)

I just had a thought for the info ideas - a filter system.

Pick oone hotkey you can use a shift combo with and perhaps have the following type options

All - as it is now
Friendly - tab only selects friendly units and buildings
Enemy - as friendly but enemy units and buildings
Construction - only shows the meadows on tab
resources - only shows gold mines and woods on tab

Forgive the use of the word tab, just an old habit, but I hope you get the sort of idea. The command would cycle the options from start to end and then back.

Edit:
Meant forgive the word show. Jaws isn't working right in these edits right now and it is 10pm so I'm a little tired. Sorry.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-03 23:19:14 (edited by dark empathy 2007-07-03 23:55:21)

Hmm, nice idea if possible. Personally I'd love to have themed armies of troops, ----- reenacting the battle of pelenor fields for example. but I'm not sure how possible that sort of thing would be given that the game mechanics seem very strict, and an the sound files for the names and reactions of the units are already recorded.

similarly,  user created missions etc are always good, ---- though it will all depend upon how workable it is.

thanks for the advice people, and I'm glad my rambling questions vaguely made sense. Appologies if some of my posts seem a litle incoherent, I was up all last night batling betwene a desire to play Sound Rts and the need to get work done (which probably didn't do much for my chances of defeating the enemy).

Soundmud, I've also posted a message about Sound Rts to the Audeasy mailing list, an E-mail discussion list about accessible games.

quite a few people there have also downloaded and played the game, and if you are looking for feedback about it, you might considder checking the list.

The list also has several Audio game developers subscribing, so more tech related discussion of the game might work there as well. You can subscribe to the list at:

http://audyssey.org/

Oncemore, congratulations on the game, I've bene waiting to try something like this for ages.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-07-04 00:14:32 (edited by SoundMUD 2007-07-04 00:17:01)

Cx2:
Yes, the archers are quite hard to recruit and should be stronger. I'd like to make the catapult attack an adjacent square too, useful if towers exists. And yes, I intend to add towers because they are very funny.

Cx2, Niklas and Dark Empathy:
I'd like to add an editor too, or a map format that would allow new sounds, new maps and new campaigns to be added or modded. For instance, it is not possible because the maps are built into the code, but with some refactoring I hope it will be done. Before that, I have to make sure that the gameplay works.

Cx2:
Thanks for the filter idea! Control, Shift and Alt are already heavily used, so the idea of a CapsLock-like key but with 4 or 5 states can do the trick.

Dark Empathy:
I'll check the Audyssey list, thank you!

2007-07-04 01:57:33

Your welcome.

Obviously the main priority is to get the game working as well as possible, before considdering upgrades, sinse there's already plenty in the game to be going on with I think.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2007-07-04 14:34:27

What are these towers and what they can do? I have never played warcraft. Soundmud can you keep us
informed about the development of the game please?

2007-07-04 19:37:21

Towers were essentially fixed positions for either arrows or cannons in warcraft 2. They are like turrets in other strategy games in a way.

I think I've found a bug by the way. I built a workshop before a stable, and the game wouldn't allow me to upgrade my keep to a castle.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-04 20:06:34

Niklas:
I will keep you informed about the development of the game.
Yes, towers are buildings that can throw arrows for example.

Cx2:
For the castle you need at least one barracks, one lumber mill, one blacksmith and one stable.

2007-07-04 21:34:31

Ah I was missing the saw mill

Perhaps the dependencies could be added to the manual in time. It does seem mildly different to  Warcraft 2 which I was basing my plans on.

Also is there a fixed limit of 20 food rations maximum? I hit this fairly easily on the third non-chapter map and then couldn't build any more troops, and couldn't suicide them against the enemy since the enemy had little in the way of troops. Yes I know I could have won, but I was  wanting to try out mages and catapults.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-05 10:17:37

Yes, I will add the dependencies to the manual, and the blacksmith too (I forgot it).

The 20 food limit is not great, I know. This limit allows a not too laggy multiplayer game, even with 4 players who build only peasants and footmen. If I succeed in making the game faster, I'll raise that limit. Or I can put it in the option menu too.

2007-07-05 10:56:18

What's up with the sound named flying machine. What is that. There's no description in the manual
about a flying machine. Optional music would be nice, too. Realy good game, congratulations.

2007-07-05 11:13:47

Perhaps a flying machine was planned or considered but not in at the moment or decided against?

I know in Warcraft 2 there were Dwarf gyrocopters and Goblin zeppelins that were unarmed but used as scouts, this could be something similar. Rmember this is still a work in progress.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-05 11:56:31

Yes, for the moment I removed the flying machine because it was not enough different from the other units without some amount of work. I wanted this machine to be able to transport units to avoid choke points and destabilize defensive players. It may be nice for scouting too.

Moreover the flying units should fly through obstacles, and this is not yet the case, so the flying machine can be destroyed by archers at the choke point. The problem is that I don't know if I must keep the isolated squares system which has pros and cons.
Pros:
- the map is easier to understand
Cons:
- the archers and the catapults are less interesting near the bridges and the paths

2007-07-05 14:15:36

Hmm. One option would be to have squares within squares as in GMA's Lone Wolf, thus you could -
Send troops to 3, 3 in C2. You could make it perhaps 3 by 3, or more detailed if you wished.

Another option would be to allow troops to move to the path or bridge and guard but not move across into the next square.

I guess to make ranged units effective you need to allow footmen or other melee units to act as a screen.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2007-07-05 18:53:54 (edited by SoundMUD 2007-07-05 18:55:14)

I'm almost sure that the game without the artificial isolation between the squares would be better. At the moment archers cannot throw arrows at the enemy on the other side of the bridge, for example. I think that removing this limitation will lead after a lot of work and bad surprises (or little steps) to a different game, probably better, and simpler. But this question is difficult.