2009-04-12 12:33:12

Hello fellow gamers and game-devs,

I was having a look at the Audiogames.net main website, hunting for some concepts for a new space fighter simulation game. I had a look at Flight Commander and found out that both mirrors for its MP3 trailer are dead.
Does anybody still have this trailer, and is it worth listening to anyway?

Thanks!

2009-04-13 10:57:06

I heard the trailer originally, and even contacted the developer. unfortunately, he was designing the game as part of an Msc in computing, this meant he only had to submit a concept demo, and so never got anything vaguely playable which was a shame, as the game seemed to be a true 3D flight sim, and feature missions from what I remember of the trailor.

I did contact the dev (sinse he actually occupies the same country as I do), but he said due to a job, a Mariage, and a newborn son he wouldn't be able to take the developement of the game any further.

I suggest however ducktail, that if your looking at concepts for a new spaceship game, you'd be better off with a brain storming session here than checking out old trailers, sinse you best know what you can code and people's own opinions might be a better cumpus for the sort of thing that might be well recieved.

What sort of game were you thinking of? Arcade style, or something more complex?

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-04-13 11:26:11

My intention is to code a game that allows the full control of a spacefighter class starship. The goal of this game is to have some fun with a good old spacefighter. The objective of the game has not yet been determined.
The standard features to create an opponent to fight against are represented by an AI-system, and possibly a multi-player environment. For later versions a squadron-system may be implemented, but that's rather futuristic music for now.
However, as only the programming of the game's engine will take several months, you'd better not expect something for the next couple of weeks.

2009-04-13 13:12:15

Hmmm, have some fun with a good old spacefighter?

Sound intreaguing. i'd personally love to see a 3D spaceship game, --- perhaps with missions such as destroying particular enemy craft, getting to particular areas (3D coordinates possibly being used for this), or escorting or protecting other ships.

Different environments might also be fun, sinse with control of a small single person fighter you've got lots of options not just deep space batle, ---- everything from asteroid fields to planetary battles or even flying inside a space station (remember the deathstar?).

Just some thoughts.

I understand it'll take a good while to get anything finished, but it'll be nice to have another game to look forward to later on.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-04-13 14:15:03

The Deathstar! Sure I remember her!
Many ideas have come to mind lately, after checking out Children of the Gods and similar audio dramas. Now it's time to move on from a drooling sci-fi-loving teenager to a muscular programmer with smooth skills.
For the time being, the game will be using stereo sound to represent a 3D game grid. This grid will probably have a size of 100.000 by 100.000 by 100.000 squares. This may seem an awful lot, but considering that the spacefighter is a free-floating object, it's going to need a lot of space to move.
As I do not possess a surround sound set, I cannot fully test and experiment with the possibilities of 3D-sound. (That is, unless somebody is donating me such a system, which is very unlikely.)
Also, I'll have to figure out the whole payment stuff. I do not want to run into any copyright problems. So if anybody could provide me with some additional information on this, I'd be a shiny happy person. I'll create another topic for the new game and its engine as soon as things get into shape a little more.

2009-04-14 08:42:19

Hmmm, haven't seen that particular audio drama myself, when I think of scifi audio drama with space fighters and big war, I always think of The falcon banner especially sinse I've now read all the novels which it was based on.

Personally, sinse most people have a sterrio system, and good quality headphones are stil imho the most immersive and efficient option for an audio game, a high quality sterrio would be better imho.

My only concern with the 100000 grid size is that that would make checking your coordinates a rather complex and long winded process unless some quicker method were used, ---- such as relative position to targit.

For payment plans etc, I'd suggest talking to thomas ward of Usa games, sinse he's recently been grapling with the subject, ---- pluss he might be a good contact on matters such as hosting.

See The usa games site for details.

Hopefully this should contribute to your shiny happiness, ------ though i'd rather avoid the hand holding terror!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-04-14 18:16:06

A few points here.

Not trying to nitpick, but let's not confuse 3D and 2D. 3D would necessarily involve up and down, which is needless to say awkward for us lot. What we would be more looking at is 2D with 360 degree rotation.

Regarding coordinates, you don't need to use the same scale for the announced coordinates as the game uses internally. Check Lone Wolf, even its system of a 5 by 5 grid within another 5 by 5 grid isn't enough, you notice how you can still move in relation to objects while your area and sector remain the same? So you can perhaps have a 100k square grid "under the hood", but only announce this as something like a 100 by 100 grid to the player. This will make it much easier to keep track of.

I've still got the FC demo kicking around somewhere last I checked, it did indeed seem a little bare bones ish. It also sounded like it would be a little eeasy as it was. You don't wan tit to be too easy to kill the enemies really quickly, but equally some people might enjoy it more if it was less than frantic.

I would personally be incredibly interested in such a game. Most especially if it had soem kind of campaign, and possibly if it included multiplayer.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-04-14 18:39:56

Admitedly, representing up and down is a pest, but imho it would be quite a nice thing to have in a flight game just to add extra realism.

Pitch indicators or various sensor types with accompanying sounds could be used for this purpose, ---- particularly given a space setting.

If I remember rightly, the Fc demo was only supposed to be the training missions, which might explain the lack of difficulty, ----- but unfortunately I never quite got around to trying the thing sinse it seemed to get taken off line just before I ran into audio games.

I deffinately think that whatever size of grid is actually used, to make the player's life easier the practically announced squares shouldn't be more than 100x100, ---- or (assuming full 3d), 100x 100 x 100,sinse otherwise things could get way too numerically confusing.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-04-14 18:48:11

That is an interesting point, it would remain to be seen whether it would work in practice since noone has realy tried it.

As to the easiness from how it sounded, well it was only a concept demo. It just sounded like it would either be realy easy, or really frantic. Enemies being fairly paper thin leads to one or the other, or both, in most mainstream cases.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-04-15 10:07:21

There are a couple of things that I would like the game to feature, although it's rather experimental:
- The game will be stereo-sounded.
- The game play will however be fully 3D (the player can move up and down).
- The internal system will use rather large coordinates, to ensure smooth moving.
- The user will get a simplified version of these (e.g. the coordinates devided by ten, or something similar).
- The screenwidth and the actual width of the game grid are not the same. This means that only part of the game grid can be visible at a given time, enabling hiding (and hide-and-seek, yay).
- There will be no targeting solutions that are found in other games, such as a constant beep to indicate a centered object.
- The goal is to give the player a "real" spacefighter, and so the common instruments of such a machine will be available. You don't have to do everything without cues and confirmation from the computer, but something that cannot be found in a spacefighter will not be implemented (hence the lack of extra audio feedback for targeting). You might think of this as roleplaying.
This having been said, I face to main problems:
- The game will need an awful lot of balancing to make sure that hitting a target is possible for a skilled player, even without a bunch of extra audio information.
- The big question is what would be the best way of showing that another ship (like an enemy) is locate up, down, or vertically centered. I expect to use audio cues for this.
I hope to have described my ideas clearly. As soon as there is an actual, playable "thing", I will post on these forums again.

2009-04-15 11:07:23

Hmmm, interesting sounding indeed. I wouldn't however be so quick as to automatically dismiss targiting sfx. The fighters in starwars certainly have them, and for computer guided weapons such as missiles they would make sense.

Pluss, on targit indicators could be used for targiting weak spots on larger ships ala last star fighter, which would give the game both a tactical and realistic edge.

If you haven't played Jim Kitchin's Puppy 1 arcade plane game, i'd suggest you do.

that is purely arcade style, ie, you here planes, and shoot them down in waves for points, it does however feature a rather nice way of showing vertical location by using the pitch of a wind sound overlaid upon the engine, with a higher pitch indicating a higher elivation.

Thus pitch = hight or depth, left/right sterrio position = horizontal position, and volume = closeness to your ship.

Admittedly puppy 1 isn't quite 3D, sinse you cannot actually turn your plane around, and once an enemy plane goes past you, your dead, but if you introduced some factor, ----- such as a proximity warning for something behind, I don't see why this sort of system wouldn't be workable.

Myself I'd rather have a tactical space fighting game where you have to perform actual missions, and hunt down your enemies, rather than just targit and pump with a single weapon as fast as possible.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-04-15 11:48:22

The game will, for now, offer fighter-versus-fighter combat. This means that motherships are not to be seen anywhere for the time being.
The problem with pitch is that it is hard to tell when an object is exactly centered, at least for some people. But a workaround is being thought of as we speak. Or, that is, as I speak.
There are loads of other things to figure out though, such as the amount of degrees you turn with every thruster blow. Also, the amount and types of engines that are available are not yet determined. Currently, the plan is to have two wing-engines and a general rear-engine. But this may change as I find more suitable descriptions of spacefighters on the web or in audio dramas.

2009-04-15 14:21:28

Well you could always change the clarity of the tone, a bit like the change in solution sound in tank commander changing.

As to targetting solutions, well lock tones are pretty common in rea fighters for missiles. As to any gun type weapons, well you could think of them as having limited ability to lock and self aim to a small degree. This would handily explain how they can hit something without having to be perfect to a small fraction of a degree.

If you're thinking realism for the layout, consider the Starfury layout from Babylon 5. Apparently Nasa even took an interest it was so well designed, I heard. It consists of one set of main engines for forward thrust, and another set of retro engines for slowing down/. The main and retros on opposing sides can be fired in order to turn, by pushing one side of the fighter forward and the other side backward. It also has a number of smaller thrusters in order to achieve roll, and pitch is achieved in a similar way to the turning since the engines are positioned in a quad. You could equally pitch by use of small thrusters on the front and rear of the fighter however, facing both up and down. Or you can always just hand wave it, and call it a set of maneuvreing thrusters or whatever.

As to sound, well consider the possibility of "virtual surround" as well. It's the technique used to simulate full surround by using only two speakers. I know Tank Commander and probably Shades use this as an option. Of course using stereo to imitate 3D works well enough too on its own. I could be wrong, but I thought direct sound supported virtual surround.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-04-15 15:00:49

The game is being programmed using DirectX, and uses XAudio2 for its sound system. Although this may create compatibility issues with some older computers, it provides far better tools to manipulate sound. I'm sure a virtual 3D-environment can be squeezed out of it, but to keep things simple I'll start by implementing the stereo-approach.
For the engines I may use rotateable wing-thrusters to stear the spacefighter. By pointing them down and firing them, you would effectively raise your altitude. Another option would be to have seperate nose- and tail-thrusters to change your altitude. However, this last method would require yet another couple of game controls (keys on the keyboard to press).
And finally, I'm struggling to get my hands on high-quality space sounds, mainly engines and laser impacts.

2009-04-15 16:09:28

I did look them up myself once, but found the sound libraries to be quite expensive to say the least.

Regarding the control methods, you can always just say they're computer controlled by the on board systems and save yourself a headache. They probably would be anyway, point in case being the modern F117A stealth which does this kind of thing in real life along with other "fly by wire" aircraft.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-04-17 09:22:47

I personally do rather like the b5 fighters, pluss that sort of tech system gives you a lot of environmental options, ---- up to and including fighting inside jump gates (the fighters of course can't create gates themselves, but can be deploid from mother ships inside them to attack enemy fighters).

Even on a twin wengined aircraft, it's not necessary to control each engine individually or have too many maneuvering controls, ---- though I do admit if multiple engines were introduced, you could do some interesting things with damage, ---- such as having hits from enemies in specific positions affect specific engines of your ship.

Oh, I'd also very much recommend The falcon banner series (see the topic in the offtopic room), sinse there are some major descriptions of both realistic space fighters and fighter combat, ---- plus various fighter types.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-04-17 09:49:06

That sounds all really intressting. But I'am sure, that this ALL is not simple for programming. SO we need to wait some time.

What you're looking at is subhuman. It's not normal. Focus on yourself.

2009-04-17 09:59:51

I've heard the audio dramas that have been created based on The falcon banner. They do indeed introduce some interesting concepts.
As for damage, I am considering no repair facilities, as this would make a battle long and boring. Or perhaps just a few components should be repairable (suggestions are more than welcome).
And yet another thing that I thought of, is a ranks-system. You would start out with a particular spacefighter design, and as you get more skilled, you could upgrade to another machine. That machine could, for example, have a whole different engine layout or different weaponry. But this whole idea is something for a version 2.0 or even 3.0, not for the current release, which is not much more than a partially working menu.

2009-04-17 11:16:52

One system I saw in the Snes futuristic plane game batle squadren was interesting. Everytime your ship got hit, you went into a "damaged" statewhere your controls would slow down and some of your weapons wouldn't work, once damaged, one or two more hits would pretty much kill you.

You would recover from this after a few seconds, ---- ie, your pilot had done some temporary fixes for whatever had gone down, , and continue, ---- but your overall shield strength would be reduced, sinse obviously your ship had taken a pounding.

The more damage you took, the longer you remained in the "damaged" state, until you were in it perminantly and didn't come out of it.

Battlesquadren also let you buy weapons and other ships, ---- sinse you were a mercenary, which made things interesting, --- though different fighters at different ranks would be fun.

For the Falcon banner, I strongly suggest you buy the actual novels from http://www.lulu.com/content/207039 their available as pdf and perfectly screen reader friendly.

Not only do they take the story and characters further, but they have full descriptions of all the various fighters and technology, also at around four dollars a go I think they're not exactly expensive either.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-04-19 13:46:42 (edited by the doctor 2013-07-22 10:27:14)

I belive that since this is a start for the game, you could use stock sounds (sounds that may be from other games etc).  Then, as you move further into the game's details, you could adapt these to suit your own needs/ideas.  If you want a tester or a story writer for the campaign mode, I'd love to take that post.  Email me on forum:

Hope this helps,
The Doctor.

My TARDIS: time and relative dimension in space machine.  its bigger. on the inside.  infinitely bigger on the inside.

2010-05-27 10:33:45

sorry, the page is can not be found of flyte commander traler file

I post sounds I record to freesound. Click here to visit my freesound page
I usually post game recordings to anyaudio. Click here to visit my anyaudio page

2010-05-27 10:51:29

The project was abandoned long ago. It was abandoned long before the original post in this topic.

Sadly a lot of audio games are never released, the person making them simply stops for whatever reason.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2010-05-29 02:32:58

The idea of a space fighter simulator sounds awesome! I'd love something like a sort of Loan Wolf in space where you can actually move rather than a Space Invaders style arcade game.

Thanks for the accidental introduction to that Children of the Gods podcast as well, it's great!

2010-05-30 10:15:57

Unfortunately like I said it isn't going to happen, not by this developer sadly. Too many failed projects.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.