2009-02-28 22:54:10

Greetings all. A friend wishes to join the audio games forum but he's having trouble registering. I checked it out myself by loging out then clicking on register. It didn't work at all. There's an error message stating something about seeing the special page for instructions. Any help on this matter is greatly appreciated.

2009-03-01 01:30:29

Try the topic in the game discussion, funnily enough called "About registering". It's one of the sticky topics and is located here

Sadly the admins Richard and Senderman found it necessary to make a slightly odd registration procedure in order to stop spam bots. It must have worked, we haven't had any reports about posts in something like 3 and a half months.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-01 15:11:16

Hi Bashue,
We're very sorry for the inconvenience. Yes, it does help, but I'm aware that this is a very drastic measure. You know, the problem is that we cannot use captcha's on this forum, and audiocaptcha's are equally inaccessible for those who have hearing loss as well.
But in order to keep things ok here for visitors, mods and admins, preventing the spambots from automatic registering is very important and this is effective. I really hope we can remove this system later, and I'm sure we will.

OK, admitted: the true reason is subliminal advertisement of the game fartman. smile

2009-03-02 00:44:17

If you've ever heard some of those audio captias out there you know they are pure evil. They have all funny noises in the background, echoes, and goodness knows what else. I suppose it's like visual captias which have funny marks on to disrupt OCR, but frankly they've taken it a bit too far in my opinion. I don't think I've successfully completed an audio captia ever.

That said I've seen somewhere that has an interesting approach. They actually ask a basic question "What is the opposite of cold?" I had wondered for some time if something along these lines might be practical, tricky though with some of the people who haven't quite perfect english on here.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-02 01:14:11

Yeah captchas are really, really annoying. I've completed some, although it's taken me quite a few attempts. I have indeed heard of that method CX2 with the basic questions. Much more practical.

2009-03-03 08:34:54

the sites that don't use audio captias but still want accessibility use simpler questions. As long as you understand english numbers, they use math.

"What is 4 + 4?"
And then you type in the number answer. I mean numbers are pretty universal (or so I imagine).

As for audio captias, I don't seem to have too much trouble with them. I think GMail had one, Craigslist has one (and that is one I use constantly). I guess trying to decipher the audio captias is based on your sound card. My Macbook running Windows (bootcamp) using stock soundcard (without my external soundcard) = Epic Fail. Macbook running Windows (bootcamp) with external USB soundcard = score. Macbook running OSX with standard soundcard = score.

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-03-04 00:53:27

Spambots can easily add 4 plus 4...

2009-03-04 04:54:20

Something of a pity really.

Not sure if this would help any, but you could try asking them to copy and paste the information from the address bar in their browser? Just a thought, maybe spambots wouldn't realise to do this (gotta love script kiddies), and it seems simple enough. That said I've little to no experience of web coding, so don't feel I'm trying to argue or challenge the way things have been done.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-05 00:38:29

Okay, so spambots can add 4+4. Can they decipher what the math question is, or can they tell where the question is that they would have to figure out? Also, you don't hav to use just 4+4, I mean you can set it up to be a rotating set of math problems, just like the captias are set up to do with the rotating images. If you have ever noticed with the audio ones, if you click "audio version" and get it wrong, and try to do it again (after refreshing the page, or coming to it another day or whatnot), they are different. Go to Craigslist.org and post some stupid fake ad, and do the captia, then post another. each time, it's different codes to have to enter, even if you do them back to back to back.

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-03-08 19:19:39

I remember I was trying to sign up to a website, and they asked questions like "who is Britney Spears?"
The funny thing though, was that even if you got the answers wrong you could still sign up to the website. Doesn't that sort of kill the point?

2009-03-08 23:06:35

Well you've lots of choices for Britney -
singer
Singer, capitalised
a singer
musical artist, cough splutter
royal pain in the neck
loose

The choices are endless, even if you aren't trying to mock her lol.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-03-09 00:37:00

ahahahahaha!

contact info
email:
matrheine at gmail . com

2009-03-11 02:37:11

cx2 wrote:

Well you've lots of choices for Britney -
singer
Singer, capitalised
a singer
musical artist, cough splutter
royal pain in the neck
loose

The choices are endless, even if you aren't trying to mock her lol.

I think you forgot one of the biggest ones: "Crazy!" (Yes, capital C and exclamation at the end).

And I do believe that having a captia where you answer the question wrong but still enter/get registered does completely and utterly defeat the purpose, but then again, I could be wrong.

Visit my site at VI Tek Talk.
A discussion forum for cross platform, cross device adaptive tech as well as adaptive tech insociety and different cultures.

2009-03-11 06:16:25

Laugh, true.

Depends, the bot might... and I stress *might* be designed to ignore fields which it doesn't understand the label to. It could equally be programmed to put in random data, but what if the field is asking for something that is validated? Thinking of something like an MSN contact detail here.

This could just be me imagining things though.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-09-05 09:04:53

An even simpler one is monBRE's capcha system: just write "I am not a bot!" I wonder if that would defeat the purpose. It's the same every time, but ...
I think Vael usually kicks people who don't even try to get any monsters. The fact is that there's really no way to do spam on there except for if they manage to get into project wonderful or something; maybe that is why he made it so easy ...

I like to sleep.

2009-09-05 09:51:44

It might defeat bots designed to attack any site they find. Of course if someone particularly targetted the specific site it wouldn't work at all, since it would be so easy to abuse.

Yes, we have had a couple of occasions like that as I believe has Miriani. We once had someone spamming out the forum with text known to crash eloquence, the synth used by Jaws and which is also available to both Window Eyes and Hal I believe. We've also had spam posts of random gibberish completely filling up the topic lists too, no idea if it was the same person or not.

Believe it or not, but there are people in the VI community who are willing to attack parts of the audio gaming community just because they think it's fun and/or clever. Personally I feel we can't afford the potential damage, and they would be harming themselves just as much in the long term. Obviously not everyone is quite as rational as me though.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-09-05 12:06:34

Text to cfrash eloquence? Hey, cool! GImme a line!

I like to sleep.

2009-09-05 14:39:03 (edited by aaron 2009-09-05 14:42:24)

That better be a joke there. Sometimes crashing eloquents might make the screen reader currupted, very occasionally. Also, another thing we once had, was a spammer who had over 800 posts in one day, filling up the place with topics completely unrelated to games. Me and another forum member noticed it, and we got pretty worked up about it, getting a little worried. Deleting topics had no use, as 2 more filled it's place. The mods went ahead and banned the stupidest of bots ever to set foot upon this website, at least in my opinion it was the stupidest one.

2009-09-05 18:57:12

I recall that, we had to ask the admin Senderman to clean it out because there was just way too much to delete manually.

KeyWasFull:
No chance, I don't have any intention of spreading information on how to crash screen readers even if I could remember the details. Someone couuld easily stumble across it here anyway.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-09-05 21:05:55

Wouldn't bother me, Orphius is as far as I know uncrashable by basic text I believe, ----- cross fingers!

We did have a spambot last week which posted about 8 threads, but I deleted those and banned the thing. I was slightly concerned that this would open the way to others, but luckily it hasn't, stil, sinse the fartman registration business we've drastically cut down on the things, ----- does this mean Fartman is protecting us from the utter fowlness of spam? That's quite worrying really!

I personally have a symple antidote to audio captures comprising my extremely good sanheisar headphones and loud volume which seems to work pretty well, but obviously not everyone can do this, ---- also I suspect as was said earlier I'm probably lucky in sound card terms, sinse I do remember having extreme trouble with my old laptop.

I once saw one of those text rpg batle games which used a question system with numbers, but would use a combination of text and numerals, ---- Eg, what is 4 pluss f I v e.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-09-05 21:20:14

I've caught a couple spam posts too lately, and by chance caught a user called "JapaneseWebcamSexs" which I promptly banned. Seemed obvious this was a spam account.

Regarding Eloquence, we have to remember that for the commercial screen readers Eloquence seems by far the most common synth around. Something that crashes any screen reader is frankly unacceptable in any case, and not something I would be prepared to stand for when it takes such deliberate effort. If it was something you could easily do by accident that would be another matter though.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-09-06 10:12:11

To be honest even the basic idea of text which crashes a screen reader seems a litle odd to me, ----- though of course software glitches are tricky things indeed.

i'm not sure if any forum registration system other than some of the captures is %100 spam proof (I have heard of spambots getting around those0, but so long as they can be minimized to the point that they can be controlled without too much effort that is okay.

I believe the ones you and I deleted last week have been the first for a good few months, and, ---- hopefully, we won't see anymore for a similarly long time.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2009-09-06 12:15:17

I got the same impression there.

I've heard a suggestion that captias don't work as well as people intend. Obviously with enough time anything can be broken, and if the webvisum add on for Firefox can recognise them then so can other software.

The best captia I've used so far is the accessible Second Life sign up. It gave me a line or two from a song and asked me to enter it, and said it didn't have to be exact so long as I got most of it. At least that's the impression I got. Having the larger sample size, and making it something that your brain can follow better than random letters and numbers, seems to make it much easier and also much more tolerant to natural errors.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2009-09-06 22:16:57

Here's a thought, and a rather daunting one.
What if the ones getting around captchas wern't spam bots, but were people just registering for the hell of it?

2009-09-07 02:55:54

Well I fail to see why they would register for no purpose. Of course it wouldn't be a shock to me if someone registered to somehow try and cause problems for people.

cx2
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To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.