2008-11-17 14:15:26

okay, this is me letting off some steam, and hopefully giving people a good laugh, ---- sinse as a story it's pretty funny.

A week and a half ago, i was told there was a problem with my university course registration. I also want to set up my university E-mail address on outlook express.

Phoned colidge, and they said all I need to do is ring I.t. services, set up my account, and E-mail the appropriate department.

The operative word here is all, ---- rather the same way "all" frodo had to do was walk several thousand miles and chuck the ring into Mount doom!

here's a transcript of the phone conversation: me: Hello, i'm trying to set up my university E-mail address to work with outlook express.

Brainless idiot number 1: What's your username.
me: (gives username).
Bi1: well we don't support outlook express, we use a web based system.
me: the web based system doesn't work with hal, could you please tell me how to set it up with outlook express.
bi1: well I'll send you some instructions.
me: Well the last time we did that in July, i got into a situation where I could only recieve E-mail on the address and not send. Could we please go through it manually to check it goes correctly.
bi1: Well i don't have time, i'll just send you the instructions, ---- as I said we don't support outlook express.
me: Well, outlook express worked fine for five years when i was living in colidge.
bi1: Well i don't have time to go through it, ---- ring back in a minute (puts down phone).

Me: (about five minutes later ringing back). hi. The other chap i spoke to said ring back in a minute about setting up my uni address with outlook express.
bi2: yes, I'll send you some instructions.
me: As I said, i wanted to go through it manually.
Bi2: Well we don't support outlook express, I'll sned you the instructions and you can try it, but i can't guarantee it works, why not just use web male.
me: Because I'm visually impared, use a screen reader, and the web male isn't compatible.
Bi2: Well that's not our problem, we don't support outlook express.
me: (mildly pissed off), well it is your problem, you are It support, and required to support all students.
Bi2: I'm required to send you these instructions, you try them.
me: Well, when they don't work, ---- as they failed to in july, i'll ring back.
(bi 2 puts down phone).

Me: (suddenly realizing, phones back).
hello, i spoke to someone about sending instructions on attempting to setup my university E-mail with outlook express.
Bi3: yes, they've been sent.
me: where to.
Bi3: Your university e-mail address.
me: You mean the e-mail address I'm attempting to set up with outlook express so that I can recieve E-mails on.
bi3: yes.
me: How am i supposed to read the instructions.
bi3: Online using web male.
me: i can't use the web male it doesn't work with my screen reader.
Bi3: well we don't support outlook express.
me: well if you can't do it over the phone.
Bi3: no we can't, we don't have time.
me: Send the instructions to my other address (gives E-mail address),  and I'll phone you bakc when they don't work, ----- again!
Bi3: Alright.

And said instructions stil! haven't appeared!

good god! I think the qualification for this job is "must have approximate brain power of a concussed hampster!"

Update: apparently they now can't tell the difference betwene the letter e and letter X, ---- and can't use the phonic alphabet either! When I expressly said dark at x ray, gama, alpha mike, they somehow thought there was an E in it!

i think concusssed hampster is too clever, we're getting into incredibly senile iguana levels here!"

Update the second:

Okay, well i got and followed said instructions to get the response "invalid server name"

i phone back

me: Hello, about setting up my account with outlook express, i've followed the instructions and they haven't worked, i get a server name error.
bi2: Well we don't suport support outlook express.
me: Well would you give me some advice on fixing this.
bi2: Well i only have the same instructions in front of me that you do.
me: well will you put me through to someone who knows about this (Had to physically restrain myself from saying someone who has a brain).
bi2: i know about this, I have the instructions.
me: just put me through to your superviser.

It turns out said superviser is busy, but sinse I tdon't trust that crew to pass messages and details on, i'm ringing back in a bit.

i think we're now down to the level of slightly dim goldfish in a perminant vegetative state!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-11-17 21:41:35

LOL. I could use a few choice words. They'are not useing OWA (microsoft outlookweb access) are they?

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
DropBox Referral

2008-11-17 22:03:21

Sounds like you need to put in a complaint about them, saying that isn't their problem should be against your university's equality policy. If nothing else they deserve a good kicking about it.

Then again when I was at college they would reformat all machines in the summer, and would then discover they had run out of license keys for Jaws and had to order a replacement authorisation disk. They didn't even think they could use the little option on the disk of resetting the authorisation count with a code given by FS tech support... never mind removing the auth before they reformat.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-11-17 23:45:26

Yes Cw, they are using Ms outlook web access. i've had a look at outlook, and frankly the screen layout looks to be a pest with hal. i could probably use it if I had to, ---- but only by taking hours everytime i wanted to use my e-mail, and wandering all over the screen with virtual focus.

they can dam well stick with outlook express, ---- sinse as Cx2 pointed out, it is very much their problem!

Unfortunately disability services are also bloody useless, but I've missed so many university events through not accessing my E-mail this term, if nees be I'll ask my tutor to start writing unpleasant letters, sinse it's actually effecting my phd.

As it turned out, i didn't get to speak to superviser person, ---- but he or she will be getting a regular rockit tomorrow morning I can promise you!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-11-18 03:36:20

I agree that it is their problem. I'm just asking because just about every colledge  uses outlook web access. I found that if I turn off java (not java script) and use firefox with jaws that it works better then loading it in IE and useing jaws. I don't know rather  or not you could disable java (not java script) in IE but it is for shure doable in firefox, but what a pain in the blank just for checking email. Neither do I know of how to help with Hal sence I don't use hal, but they might want to take in to consideration that people may not read their mail online. I like to download my gmail email and read it on my PM while on the road. I wonder if they will only let you download email only on their network? It sounds like they really really need to get someone their who knows what they are doing and go ahead and do give them "you know what" over it.

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
DropBox Referral

2008-11-18 05:07:41

As I said, outlook web access is probably doable with Hal, ---- just with considderably more trouble, and as outlook express worked for five years when i was living in colidge they can dam well fix things, ---- -sinse it is their job anyway.

Be assured they are going to get hell about this.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-11-18 11:55:27

This is truely the most terible kind of support I ever have heard. Hell yeah. It's their problem. I've even tried the crappy Microsoft Outlook webmail interface with Jaws and a lot of other screenreaders, and I find it pretty hard to navigate. They might be using an exchange server, and if they are using Exchange, you can't use Outlook Express for that. Then you must use Microsoft Outlook which works with all screenreaders. If they are using Exchange, they do support Microsoft Outlook. Please write again if you run into some more trouble. Are you the only visual impaired student in the school?

Best regards SLJ.
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2008-11-18 20:14:52

Depends whether "do not support" means it's incompatible or support is referring to their support over the phone. Since they were offering to send instructions then it would seem the latter is likely.

Sounds like disability services requirs a rocket too. Wonder if your uni has a special person to oversee matters of equality? I know Lincoln did, even though I was only tangentially connected to them.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-11-19 18:52:29

Sadly, the disability services are actually pretty dire as well. i was once told in a meeting about me doing light opera on stage that often disabled people can't judge what they themselves can or cannot do, ---- by the disability adviser.

i am in fact the only registered blind (ie braille and screen reader using), person in the university, ----- but I never mind fixing things myself, and the department have always been great.

Well, after several "she's busy" phone calls, i got to speak to the infamous superviser. she was most upset when i told her it was their problem, and actually said to me "you can't speak to me like that" to which i replied "But it is your problem"

She also complained at the way i'd spoken to the It services, to which I just said these things went two way, and had I not been told that it wasn't their problem, and that they didn't have time to deal with me I would've been quite reasonable. She then said they had staffing problems to which i said "Well hopefully we can get it fixed now"

as it turns out, though they use an exchange server, outlook express willl! work. it just took one reasonable bloke (who I was of course most polite to), using remote assist to fix the problem.

in fact the solution was actually quite an anticlimax for all the fuss they kicked up. if they'd just done their job in the first place they wouldn't have had to face my sarcasm.

but oh well, I've got what I want, and can hopefully avoid having to deal with the idiots for a good, long time!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-11-20 19:50:31

If that was me I would have submitted several formal complaints from the sound of things. Wonder if the RNIB might have something to say on the matter too.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-11-21 12:17:36

Sadly Cx2, the RNIB aren't exactly great for anyone under the age of 60, particularly people who haven't been through their educational system, in my experience. Generally as I've said, if I want something done I do it myself.

I Would've gone to the department and got them to submit a formal complaint if necessary, but now that the problem is actually fixed there doesn't seem a need to be.

As i said, i used outlook express for 5 years while living in colidge so all this "We don't support" business was just a load of rubbish.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-11-21 18:53:09

It likely means they don't provide support as in technical support, not that it isn't supported as in isn't compatible. There is a huge difference between the two statements. The trouble is the way they explain it many people think they mean it just won't work, this is probably quite a common thing with poor IT services departments. Most of the time when someone says "We don't support whatever" they mean they have a policy of not providing assistance for whatever it is.

Obviously in this case it was seriously flawed, since you can't use the web mail. Frankly it wouldn't hurt for them to put the instructions for how to use Outlook Express on their web pages, with a sort of caveat saying something to the effect of "if you wreck something we're not responsible, don't come crying to us if it doesn't work."

In most cases you only need to have the details of which protocols are being used and the address of the server anyway.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-11-21 23:11:23

To be honest with their level of expertees, I probably wouldn't trust something even if they did! support it. I think I mentioned before when the uni network's updated copy of Mcaffi managed to completely crash my computer by stopping everything at windows start up just as Hal was trying to get going, ----- this Mcaffi that I couldn't! change the settings of because the uni network would automatically change them back within the next ten minutes.

If I was stil officially a colidge tutor to anyone I'd actually recommend they steer as far clear of It services as humanly possible, ---- heck, if I ever end up teaching I might just do that.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-11-30 03:27:28

Laugh, I recall when the college I went to had the slight issue that their antivirus kept bringing up false positives on just about every other word document on the system. Then again that's what happens when you buy F Secure.

For some strange reason when your system was idle it also started automatically running an antivirus scan, not on the computer but on the network drive for some obscure reason. And not the one where you kept your user files, but the one wqhere the software files were located along with various other stuff. The one you only had read eccess to, so can't do anything if it did find a virus on there.

I also recall someone recommending this person not have their department linked to the college network because the Novell junk they installed slowed them all down so much they were barely usable. Oh, and sticking with Windows 95 because they believed it was more stable even up until 2002.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-11-30 07:52:29

Ouch! though sounds familiar.

Amusingly enough, I went down to colidge to complete the registration issue earlier this week, and the colidge official secretary, (ie person who deals with all student admin rather than glorified typist), told me It service were a waste of space, totally unhelpful and she wished the colidge could have their own individual system.

Being a very typical Jordie lady, she did not mince words of course.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-11-30 15:06:44

Well it's reassuring when that happens in a way, that it isn't just you. Then again it is also sort of scary that things got that bad.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-12-01 00:06:33

My brother's opinion (and being him, it's a considdered legal opinion), is that educational establishments will always have useless It support compared to anyone commercial, sinse afterall the students and staff aren't their customers, so they've got no vested interest in being helpful, while they do have a vested interest in minding their own business and not working much.

I'm sure if that happened with a company, and I put in a complaint, the opperator would get a stern talking to at the very least.

Unfortunately, university accounting are also a bit of a lore unto themselves, so complaints in that direction won't help either. But hay! at least I got things fixed eventually.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-12-01 01:19:06

Another issue is I hear educational places pay peanuts compared to the industry. This means you get all the useless people who can't get jobs anywhere else.

While I was at college I knew of at least one or two decent IT technicians who left the college because they simply got better offers, and it just wasn't worth staying.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-12-01 03:02:47

Most email systems allow redirection of mail to an external address -- my old college one did and so does the new google apps system.  I have no idea about Exchange/outlook.

OOutlook Express is considered insecure by microsoft and by proxi everyone else thanks to Windows Mail (plus MS stuff is aotimatically considered insecure by some).

James

2008-12-01 06:31:40

With respect ConspiraZ, Microsoft's opinion on anything just doesn't fill me with confidence at all. It wasn't actually a security issue as to why outlook express wouldn't work it was just It being bloody minded I think.

Cx2, that seems very likely, especially given that my friend who is now a professional software engeneer did do a bit of government tech support work himself in his "looking for job" phase (I mentioned some of his fun phone experiences with that I think).

The problem is, this reminds me of one of my dad's sayings, which might apply here. If you pay peenuts, you get monkeys!

There's also no reason for Durham to pay badly, not with all the prophit they get off student fees, ----- the money grabbing gits!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2008-12-01 09:23:49

It ssadly seems to be an across the board thing. Perhaps they resent having to pay for tech support at all. Perhaps also that is why the accounts department are terrible too.

As to the technical side, they probably only needed to give the connection details and settings required. Perhaps it somehow needed some obscure setting turned on. I know Outlook Express or outlook aren't considered secure by anyone, but then most security problems probably come from people having the preview pane turned on. No matter if you're using Outlook Express, outlook, thunderbird, eudora or whatever else if you've got the preview pane (sometimes called mesage pane) turned on you're likely to get problems because when you move through your messages it automatically opens them to show them in said pane.

And as the BOFH series of computer humour said about the love bug virus (or something to this effect) -
"You mean the one that only infects people stupid enough to be using outlook, stupid enough to not be running antivirus, and stupid enough to open it?"

Point is there is a lot more to protecting yourself than using the right client. Most email systems are technically able to work with any client anyway, since protocols like Pop3 aren't specific to one client or another. The only reason client security becomes a major issue is when you've got it deployed over a site and you expect a certain level of stupidity and/or incompetence from users regarding safe email behaviour.

cx2
-----
To live by honour and to honour life, these are our greatest strengths and our best hopes.

2008-12-01 10:36:31

As far as security goes, II.T. services don't have a problem with me anyway, sinse I'm no longer on their network of security doom, and if anyone gets virused it'll be me, not them.

University accounting are sadly evil, there was one occasion where they attempted to insist i needed to pay an extra terms wrent for moving out mid year, ----- which is blatantly bizarre! and another in which they attempted to charge me late payment fees for a course which I'd actually delayed the start date of.

Oh well, the philosophy department are great, and that's what matters most afterall.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)