2018-09-22 01:56:59

Decided to pick this game up to see if it's even remotely accessible. Turns out, it is. I made a video highlighting the pros and cons, as well as a brief bit of gameplay.

https://youtu.be/N4jZVtlS1N4

2018-09-22 06:26:47

A few minutes into the video and I hear the words: 


     "I haven't really played online."   

     Make note that the main draw of the recent battlefront games is that you take part in massive iconic battles from the movies and other media with other players.   The purpose of playing this game is for the online content and matches against players.   Player's who's main indication that they're your enemy is a instantly fatal few shots to your character before you are able to tell they are a foe.  You cannot claim this game is accessible yet until you take your main method of playing through the game within the fires of online battles. 

    Also, I did not really see anything resembling accessibility features.  You were just utilizing some accidental bonuses to help orient yourself to where most of the fights were going on.  However, not being able to tell if the people near you are friend or foe is a big red flag.  Worse in online battles as your attempts to identify your fellow players will get you shot, fast.  And the shot does not even have to be a headshot after whatever defensive thing you had goes down.  This game has issues with the balance of certain weapons early on, to the point in the first Battlefront game where you get a pistol weapon that was vastly more powerful than an anti-tank laser.  So it'd just take two shots to the body on most unit types to down them, even with an energy shield (unless you had a hero character).  Even then, players at this point probably know how to get past the reflecting lightsaber parries to kill hero jedi.  Case and point, the most successful hero at getting kill streaks in the first game was not any of the light saber wielding heros, but Boba-phet;   Someone who zooms about on a jetpack-thing with a heavy laser weapon and bombs.


    If you're going to try to convince us to drop the $40-$60 to buy a online wargame, you're going to need to start with video of actual online battles and how you play through it, before creating a video demonstration (fight me, this is EA we're talking about.  They're going to keep prices high until the game is virtually dead and they're working on the next microtransaction cow).  There might be people just satisfied with playing against computer controlled units, but these games get stale after a while of the same thing.  Human players tend to give games like these their life.

The answer to your question is forum.audiogames.net/search

2018-09-22 07:25:50 (edited by ross 2018-09-22 08:20:32)

@2

"You cannot claim this game is accessible yet until you take your main method of playing through the game within the fires of online battles."


I don't really intend to play online, because I'm well aware that it most likely will be too difficult to play for us. I have friends with the game, and I definitely intend to play with them. I don't really think every mode of the game has to be playable for it to be accessible.


"    Also, I did not really see anything resembling accessibility features.  You were just utilizing some accidental bonuses to help orient yourself to where most of the fights were going on.  However, not being able to tell if the people near you are friend or foe is a big red flag.  Worse in online battles as your attempts to identify your fellow players will get you shot, fast.  And the shot does not even have to be a headshot after whatever defensive thing you had goes down."


Of course they weren't actually accessibility features, I never claimed they were. Yeah, they are completely accidental bonuses that make it a little accessible, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to play a game if it doesn't have accessibility settings specifically for us. If I had that mindset, I wouldn't be able to play Pokemon, Call of Duty, Mortal Kombat, Super Smash Brothers, etc.


    "If you're going to try to convince us to drop the $40-$60 to buy a online wargame, you're going to need to start with video of actual online battles and how you play through it, before creating a video demonstration (fight me, this is EA we're talking about.  They're going to keep prices high until the game is virtually dead and they're working on the next microtransaction cow).  There might be people just satisfied with playing against computer controlled units, but these games get stale after a while of the same thing.  Human players tend to give games like these their life."


I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy the game. I'm just letting people know that the option is out there, that we don't have to keep playing side scrollers for the rest of our lives. And I know this isn't that important, but the game is $40 tops digitally. I swung by Gamestop and got it for $30.

2018-09-22 08:01:32

is the game still a money trap?

2018-09-22 08:16:52

@5

No, they fixed that a while back. Characters are pretty easy to unlock.

2018-09-22 10:02:14 (edited by magurp244 2018-09-22 11:44:04)

Quite interesting. Have you considered adjusting the stick deadzone and sensitivity settings in options? It might help with the Y axis handling, the controls menu is in the upper left, with the options laid out like so:

General:
Key Bindings: Change (likely for PC)
Invert Look: Yes/No
Invert Flight: Yes/No
Invert Vehicle: Yes/No
Soldier Sprint: Hold/Toggle
Zoom Mode: Hold/Toggle
Zoomed Sensitivity: 1-100%
Soldier Sensitivity: 1-100%
Vehicle Sensitivity: 1-100%
Starfighter Sensitivity: 1-100%
Starfighter Mouse: Response: 1-100%
Starfighter Mouse: Percision: 1-100%
Advanced Flight: Yes/No
Disable Roll: Yes/No
Starfighter Missiles: Hold/Toggle

Controller:
Soldier Sensitivity: 1-100%
Vehicle Response Curve: 1-100%
Starfighter Response Curve: 1-100%
Stick Deadzone: 1-100%
Soldier Buttons: Default
Soldier Sticks: Default
Vehicle Buttons: Default
Vehicle Sticks: Default
Starfighters: Default

So soldier sensitivity is around 16 from the top, with deadzone 19 from the top. Although, this may be for the PC version, so i'm not sure what differences there are, if any.

-BrushTone v1.3.3: Accessible Paint Tool
-AudiMesh3D v1.0.0: Accessible 3D Model Viewer

2018-09-22 13:11:15

Hello,
@1 , @2, the probleme is that you're both right.
We don't have to wait for developpers to implement acessibility features to play a game, but if the only thing we can do in that specific game represents less than a quarter of the game's possibiities (and I think I'm generous), then we're probably wasting our time, trying to convince us that we're actual players of that game.
Next point, we don't have to play sidescrollers for our entier life, you're totally right. I can't thank you enough for saying this. But does that mean we have to play games by using more luck than strategy, more more random gameplay than actual one ? I've read many many posts about maden nfl 19, from people who clearly admit that atleast half of the information in the game is missing for us, but still say that the game is playable and that they're enjoying it. Honnestly, I'm glad to hear it, glad to hear that it is possible for them to enjoy a game even if it is partially unplayable. But as long as major parts of the elements of gameplay are completely randomized by the lack of information, I'm not sure I can consider myself as an actual player.
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but I'm more and more convinced that we'e trapped into some kind of vicious circle, formed by side scrollers or basic fps without any complexe features in one hand, and fighting games or unaccessible ones that are guessed accessible by some on the other hand. I don't have any suggestion, I'm not a developper, and I don't know anyone in the great videogame production studios, I'm not freely complaining without any purpose, I'm just sad about a simple fact, we're clearly running  around in circles when it comes to audiogames.

Best regard,
Simon

2018-09-22 15:47:13

Will definitely be keeping an eye on this, would absolutely love to give this a go as well.  Hopefully orogin is usable.

2018-09-22 18:27:31

@6

I'll definitely mess around with that. Must have missed it.

@7

Where are you getting the fraction a quarter from? Here are the game modes that are playable:

1. Offline against AI.

2. Online against friends.

3. Campaign.

Lastly, I don't know 100% if online against random people isn't playable. For example, you can unlock items that will give you different buffs, some that would directly benefit blind players. For example, you can test out different item configurations offline as you play. I've been playing around with a buff that gives me faster health regeneration, and more points every time I get hit. Also, it's only been a day since I made that video, but I've already gotten better at aiming, evading, and melee attacks. So to say that there isn't any strategy and only luck I feel is misguided.

So to wrap things up, saying that a quarter of the game is playable I feel is a miscalculation. I feel like a proper estimate would be around half, at the least. I'm willing to take half, considering the most accessible games like MKX and Injustice, have a lot of their content that we can't play such as living towers and gear customization.

2018-09-22 18:43:18

Well, on the general accessibility front (note those words), it's not like developers entirely dismiss the needs of gamers with various disabilities to try to make the game more open to disabled players..  Progress has been made before, with one recent example being the Spider-Man PS4 game for those with physical/motor disabilities.  Hell, the menu was quite literally called "Accessibility" allowing a player to remove or modifier certain actions of the game difficult for one suffering motor function problems in their hands or movements.   I want to imagine something like this was gotten through a comprehensive study of what these gamers found difficult, and a detraction to the fun of the game (I need to look into how those decisions were first researched on).   It might be possible to apply the same concepts even into a shooter for the visually impaired, but there needs to be money and time put in developing ways of making this possible.


    ...If the motor disability crowd can get accessibility features accepted in a mainstream game, so can we.  Considering the playstyle of the battlefront games, navigational, identification, and targetting aids that have been shown to function well may help in this regards (Come on, we just shoot at each other using abilities to mitigate or improve damage output to kill.   Aiming usually just consists of just landing the hits anywhere, as Ross has shown).   Granted, the crowd wanting to play needs to be large enough to justify the R/D to make sure the game isn't a nightmare with the features up, and then there is testing needed.  Considering the publisher, we did have that EAccess lady around here beforehand that could be contacted, but I'm not sure if she's still active.


    But as said before, until I can fully get the information I need to compete with other online players for the $40-$60 (plus DLC) that needs to be dropped on an online-focused game, I cannot justify the purchase and claim it is accessible.  This is a bit pricey for a game that'll only be played with friends or people I know, who may want to play other stuff afterwards, limiting the playtime on this purchase.

The answer to your question is forum.audiogames.net/search

2018-09-22 18:50:05

Once more, you are right. To be honnest, my point was more general. I posted it on this topic mainly because it's part of the global question we all ask ourself today about audiogames, accessibility and potentially accessibilisation.
I've probably underestimated the playability of this particular game, but to go back to the exampel you gave, I don't consider mortal kombat or injustice are more playable or anything. To me, as most of the interresting challenges are even not conceivable, the most we can do is to enjoy the sound quality and the basics of gameplay as we try to convince ourself that we're actually playing, and not simulating. Again, you or the game you"re talking about is absolutly not the target of my opinion. I just wanted to point out that we're not going any further if we keep accepting half a game as a full one, it would probably be the same as considering side scrollers as the best we can ever obtain from game developpement.
To conclude and give you an example you didn'tn mention and that gives an alternative point of view, skull girls, despite the few difficulties we may encounter, can be considered as playable, even more accessible to me. Even without considering the fact that a screenreader can give you all the textual information you need, the audio atmosphere itself is enough to develope really good performance, even against sighted players.

Best regard,
Simon

2018-09-22 19:38:24

@10

You seem to be misinterpreting or misunderstanding what I'm saying. I never said anything about developers dismissing our needs. I completely agree with everything you're saying about accessibility. I can understand not wanting to buy the game, but do note post 9. I do believe that with the right equipment, I'll be able to play online competitively. And again, don't feel like I'm trying to convince everyone to buy this game, just wanted to share my thoughts and whatnot.

@11

Oh I understand, I agree. I just used MKX and Injustice as an example, as many blind people use them as a baseline for accessible games.

2018-09-23 18:29:10

Well, going to wait for now.  the pc version is still nearly 60 quid so hopefully it'll go down at some point.

2018-09-23 19:34:16

@13

Is it? I recently saw a deal that it was only 9 bucks on PC until the 24th. Try getting it from a different site maybe.

2018-10-13 02:54:59

So for anyone who is curious about picking this up, it's currently $9 if you have xbox gold. I might check this out.

Take care, it's a desert out there.

2018-10-14 09:49:42

Hi.
Sounds quite interesting. I haven't watched the whole video yet.
The important question for me is: Is the campaign playable? I look forward to follow this topic to see more comments from you when you figure out more things about the game.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
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2018-10-14 11:40:33

guys give ross a break. he is just putting a game out there for us, that some of us might get some enjoyment out of, when we get tired of the typical blind audio games that are out. the main point he focused on throughout the vid is, the sound in the game can help you navigate, kill some drones, and have a good time. he never said you would be a all master jedi, that will be slaying sighted players online left and right. instead of criticizing his walk through, and pointing out ways the game is not accessible, how about trying to find different things online, or even renting the game from game fly, to give it a go and try to find out some more things about the game to make it playable. ross thankyou for the walkthrough man, really appreciate it. I have much respect for blind gamers that try and push the envelope when it comes to main stream gaming

can i get a peace double harmony burger? no chaos

2018-10-14 15:04:34

there's also the fact that with so many games now, OCR is a real game changer and personally, gives much more insentive to at least try a new game out.  I was soled on this one when I heard the sonic mine sound from slave 1.  the sound in this game is a thing of beauty.

2018-10-14 18:37:02

So the way I look at this is time vs money.

Let's take the newly released Call of Duty: Black Ops 4 as an example; I preordered the game after watching some extensive footage of other blind people playing other call of duty games, including the BO4 beta.

Now, I know with my job how much I make an hour, and therefore I can put a judge on my time; let's go and assume that I value my entertainment time at $10/hour.  THis means in order to feel like I've gotten my fun out of a game, i'd better get a real solid six hours out of the gameplay.  With Black Ops 4, I have improved in the Zombies mode, and on multiplayer.  Will I ever be master and have a high as heck kill ratio?  no.  But I do think there is a way, especially through audio, that I can at least compete and get kills within the game.


I would imagine that this would get me through the game being talked about here.  If I can pick up the game for 30 bucks and the campaign is longer than 3 hours and I get what I consider 3 hours of enjoyment out of it, all the better.

This obviously doesn't hold true for all things; games with QTE events, for example.  If I have to spend three hours getting past one QTE scene, not worth the money.

Going back to Madden for a minute, yes.  the information isn't there, but what is there is a franchise mode.  Through franchise I have been able to go through and learn my playbook to some extent.  I know that, for a good third and three situation I need to go to medium pass, down two, and press Y.  This I know leads me to a play that x will get me a tight end catch for a good couple yards, y will go after my left sideline receiver, X will go after the slot receiver, B will go way down the right sideline, and RB will dump off to my running back.

IF I hear charles davis announce they are showing blits, have a three man front, or if the pattern of the online game is to intersept me, I know with that play how I can react in many different situations.  Am I good at online play?  Not really, but I can at least give them a run for their money and even win a few games.

The objective of course is to win, but if I lose by a field goal in overtime, i'm completely happy with the result as the game was entertaining.

Menus, however, are my problem.  if I have no sighted assistance, there are no menu guides, etcetera, it's not even worth it.  Luckily, NVDA OCR and AIra make this a non issue for me, so, I make my own guides for menus and use them.



TLDR: everyone's time is valued differently.  Is yours valued so high that you must be able to play online and be able to hang with the pro gamers?  If so, then there are going to be a lot less choices, however, that is your right and you shouldn't budge on it if you feel that way.

Are you ok with struggling through every aspect of gameplay?  Then buy every game you want!  MOre power to you; you pioneers may be influential on games.  Ten years ago we didn't have color blind settings.  Now we have a mainstream game with at least a talking menu.  so progress is being made.

Are you ok with not being the best at a game, but still finding ways to enjoy it?  Good!  play and support the games you can.

Long and short of it is everyone prefers different things.  if this one isn't for you, don't buy it.  I listened to the video and think I could play it fine.  I don't and probably won't because I'm not a starwars guy.  I struggle through BO4 because i'd love to be able to at least enjoy myself in a first person shooter and, let's face it, the ones we have in audiogame world suck, and this comes as someone that's tried them all.