2018-09-18 18:14:13

Hello all. As the subject says, the new public beta of jaws is out. Some fixes and optimisations, but I'll let you share your opinions and possibly anything else you have to say about the beta. The link to read more is https://www.freedomscientific.com/Downl … PublicBeta

2018-09-18 19:11:03

I remember when reading the what's new was actually exciting because there was usually something genuinely useful and interesting in there. Jaws never comes with anything new worth shouting about these days. The tab key is no longer echoed, wow, break out the champagne.

2018-09-18 21:21:30

sorry, but the first new really exciting, exhilarating change made me laugh.. its so sad:
"As JAWS searches for authorization, it enters a new "grace period" authorization state "
really? this means.. more resources and slow downs from the start.

needless to say, the installation on this 64 bit machine with a solid state drive and 16 gb of ram running latest build of windows 10 took about 5 minutes. I have duly reported this to fs on their marvelous form (that they never check apparently)
and also through their futile "contact us we will respond within 2 business days" page.

A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station…

2018-09-18 22:03:57

Yeah, I'm not impressed by the change log. I'll keep using NVDA and Narrator. This is just another excuse for FS to milk more money out of agencies.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

2018-09-18 22:17:00

wow they really think that's worth a full new release instead of just an update? they've hardly added anything. does look like just another excuse to get money for upgrades.

Who's that trip trapping over My bridge? Come find out.

2018-09-18 22:47:02

Have to unfortunately agree with the majority here. The sad thing is that FS will have even more excuses to get money with Windows 10 constantly updating. Audio ducking now works again? Wow, that's a feature and not a bugfix? NVDA fixed this as soon as the creators update came out, but well.

2018-09-18 22:49:32

wow listening to the podcast and so far I've only heard the word exciting once. maybe they read my rather insulting tweet where I said they need to buy jonathan a thysaurus.

Who's that trip trapping over My bridge? Come find out.

2018-09-18 23:18:46

The podcast is quite good, for falling asleep I mean.

2018-09-18 23:22:15

well the impression I got was the thing isn't finished and they were just making excuses for the fact they've hardly added anything by saying they would be adding more as the year goes on. that's what they always do anyway. mostly bug fixes.

Who's that trip trapping over My bridge? Come find out.

2018-09-18 23:33:42

I feel the same way. It's been rushed. They had a specific date and needed to do something for it.

2018-09-18 23:37:37

I'm just going to point out their yearly manditory 5000$ [Secure and Compatible Braille Display Initiative] fee's for braille display manufacturers. Guess its a good thing Orbit Reader 20's paying up, be a shame if it suddenly stopped working with Jaws, right?

-BrushTone v1.3.3: Accessible Paint Tool
-AudiMesh3D v1.0.0: Accessible 3D Model Viewer

2018-09-19 02:29:38

Well, Cortana no longer ducks JAWS when it's being talked to or responding, so that's a plus. I'm guessing that had something to do with the audio ducking fix, because Cortana does duck other audio but never ducked narrator.

2018-09-19 04:08:54

This is why I call them Very Fraudulant Organization. Nothing but crapware nowadays.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-09-19 04:39:01 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2018-09-19 04:40:52)

haha you know, and I am sorry to put it as an example, (you could skip down some lines if you wanted another example though) if we check NVDA, which does have specific periodic release deadlines in place, just like any other serious software company in the world, we have:
1. 10 new features
Some of them are reporting things, others are supporting NEW braille displays, or at least new controls for them, others are enhancements to things already in place, (automatic detection of braille displays), others support NEW things that windows 10 has to offer like dictation, emoji panel (who would not want to use that nowadays that we are being more and more social) and so on.
2. 9 changes. Those have to do with doing actually something productive like updating liblouis, adding braille tables, facilitating the selection of languages.
3. An impressive ammount of bug fixes, 20!
they even talk about the windows October update... and oh look, its 18 september 2018.
Tons of stuff, and this has happened in roughly 4 months!

and they rightly call this version 2018.3, NOT NVDA 2019 public beta. What a shame. I hope fs slaves are actually reading these forums. Or maybe not.. maybe its good they will keep ignoring happily retired customers like myself since they business model gives them so much sustainability and importance around the world with so so so so many charitable deeds they have of course NOT done.

Right, if you wanted a different comparison because you are terribly sick of the screen reader that is known for sounding like a frog on steroids when it first came out (right, eSpeak also had been updated in this latest one)
then lets look at cockos reaper, whose owner was the author of the winamp software we all loved and some of us continue to love, it miraculously, amazingly and rightly works like a snap in windows 10 and was discontinued almost 13 years back, would you believe it? But this is about their audio workstation, reaper:
Reaper this year has had about 15 updates. 15! from january of this year. And, unless something really critical or annoying does not let minorities like us blind folks work, they actually go and fix it anyway

and change logs usually do have over 15 or 20 items for each 0.01 version number.  SO, actually I feel that its pretty much the best 60 dollars i have spent. This company really makes me feel valued as a customer. They also call their latest release reaper 5.95 and not reaper 6 public beta. Hmm, I do really wonder why...

A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station…

2018-09-19 04:54:24 (edited by UltraLeetJ 2018-09-19 05:10:12)

my god, and I just looked at that initiative, which is more like a legally engrossed monopoly scheme, those things scare me to death. They are the equivalent of the music industry's trolls in legal lawsuits/litigation, remember the Jamie Thomas case?
I fear soon some independent manufacturers and assistive technology users will face exactly the same problems described here (check especially 6, 7 and 9) if that scientific dinosaur does not disappear or further contradicts its freedom initial name.

A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. On my desk, I have a work station…

2018-09-19 04:58:21

Agreed with the last post.

2018-09-19 05:36:07

… Doesn't NVDA have betas too? This isn't the official release; this is the beta.

2018-09-19 05:38:40

NVDA does have betas, but that really is no excuse.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-09-19 07:45:19

having used jaws for almost 15 years, I am not switching to NVDA unless I am fourced to do so. I just don't like the way nvda does some things. I find jaws much easier to use on the internet. It really needs to have a rapping to top or bottom feature like jaws does. I also like the way freedm scientific is handling licenses now, and how they are going to add the ability for jaws to make a sound when it detects spelling errors in a document. NVDA may already have this, but as I said i'm not going to use it as my primary screen reader. Is it a good screen reader, yes. But I feel like jaws can do more right now, so that's what i'm going to continue to use.
To the person who said that this new way of making jaws start fater is going to add more slowdowns: I'm actually noticing the popsite. Jaws starts about twice as fast for me than the 2018 version did.
Regarding audio ducking, I never use that feature anyway, so I didn't care about that.

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2018-09-19 08:52:04

Hmm. I thought NVDA had a wrapping feature somewhere. I'll have to take a look at the user guide.

2018-09-19 10:05:29

Ah no no no no, this time, they've screwed everything. Nothing to be excited about like the last year release of JAWS 2018. This should definitely be an update, not an upgrade.
Seriously, I'm considering switching completely to NVDA. I've always championed the idea that the support of JAWS for the Office package is significantly better, supported this by the fact that JAWS indeed did a better job at reporting information on a document that NVDA couldn't just do as well. Better formatting information, the ability to know the line and column of the page you are focused, the ability to know the layout of the document, the number of words, the language, whether the document has comments, spelling errors and much more was really a life saviour when you needed to work on projects and research papers.
After Mozilla rebuilt its web browser and JAWS didn't support it at all, I started using NVDA in combination with Google Chrome. It worked very smoothly and that's what I've been using ever since. In March, I took a look at JAWS 2018. What I noticed was that its support for all three web browsers I had, namely Chrome, Microsoft Edge and Firefox wasn't near as good as NVDA's. JAWS performed very slugglishly with the new Firefox to the point where you'd think you were using a low-end computer with Windows 10. With Google chrome, it wasn't consistent; it wouldn't focus on links and buttons properly. For instance, when I wanted to test the speed of my internet connection with speed test, I just pressed B for "start speed test button", and JAWS wouldn't properly focus on that. I needed to do a screen refresh/update to fix the issue which would reoccur after interacting with the webpage again. With Microsoft Edge, JAWS would crash when reading PDF documents. They had also changed some commands which I didn't like at all; for instance, to navigate through a list, you needed to first press tab to enter the list and again move through the links using tab, not up and down arrow as you would normally do.
I didn't face any of these issues in any of the three web sites I mentioned when using NVDA. It's true that NVDA performs a little slower as compared to JAWS both on the web and in Microsoft Word, but it will turn out to be more advantageous to me swapping my HDD with an SSD which will improve the performance of my computer overall. It's cheaper than a JAWS upgrade, isn't it?

2018-09-19 11:02:37

JAWS 18 and especially 2018 actually had me a little excited because they brought some kind of useful features. In particular the speech on demand mode sticks out, being able to do reading commands while your speech is muted is surprisingly useful if you're doing something like watching a video or doing something in a terminal that generates a lot of speech. It also had far fewer issues with UIA than NVDA, though it looks like with the latest Windows 10 and NVDA releases NVAccess is finally starting to get a grip on it. Though like Afrim said JAWS is still a faster on heavier websites, especially on lower end hardware like the Atom Z8750 powered GPD Win.

All that being said I can't do much else apart from agreeing with previous posters. JAWS 2019 feels a little bit like a cash grab. Some of the stuff they announced, like fixing audio ducking, really should be a 2018 bug fix. Why should people have to pay for the fact that FS implemented the feature in a way that made it not work after a Windows update when every other screen reader was not affected?

I'll be curious to see how this new license portal turns out, though as usual it's going to be US only at launch which gives America the 50001st way to get JAWS cheaper, while the rest of the world who'd need such things more are stuk with nothing.

Hey, at least they just released a tool to make their fancy OCR cameras conform to standards so you can use them in more up to date scanning software. But as far as JAWS goes, if 18 and 2018 made me give them some credit, where they even went as far as to back port the Edge support to JAWS 18, this new update, and their recent blog post where they turned the Firefox ESR update into an advertisement for why you should buy an SMA or else you're gonna be screwed, is making me less optimistic for where they're going.

<Insert passage from "The Book Of Chrome" here>

2018-09-19 11:43:01

hi afrim,
You can enable UIA support for office, which has existed since january, which should make nvda much much more responsive with office.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2018-09-19 11:47:37

also, note that there is a command to add to the nvda config file to enable it. Though apparently it has some limitations with reading revisions and comments.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2018-09-19 11:56:04

all right. here we go. I was actually afraid of 2018, and some parts of 18. as we know, JAWS was really struggling with win10, for a long long time. seeing just how far 2018 went, I was even considering to find some FLAWS training materials, and try to be more efficient at using it, or at least using it more. seeing as the first 2 NVDA releases of 2018 were nothing in my view, really got me worried. think it was 18.2 or 18.1, literally had nothing new and exciting. but, as I don't have 1000 dollars or any other currency, I stuck with NVDA, and due to some laggy UI issue, that apparently people with i7s don't experience, I stuck with windows 8.1 and or 7, and hey, it was beautiful. then NVDA came back from hell, 2018.3 really put up the homework, not to mention my latest alpha, where, BTW, changes are listed as changes, and features are listed as features. I can only assume scientificly those 2 words have the same meaning...
upon reading the release notes last night, I went to ask someone, just in case I missed half of the release notes. OK, so let me quote one of their new features.
holy flying fuck! JAWS will no longer! oh my god! this is the biggest feature of all times! so as we were saying... (wait for it...) JAWS will no longer... announce tab! oh holy shit! never mind we just muted it in key labels...,
that, for cluster fuck of a life, is a change! OK, it's not! a! feature!
audio ducking breaking. again, it's a bug fix! that shit is not! worth an SMA, and it never will! I don't want to curse them out just yet. they could always be reserving half of their features for later betas, though I doubt it. at any rate, even some 2018 updates contained more than this. I heard roomers of speed improvements, etc, etc. where are they?
I listened to parts of their latest FS cast, as I heard sight and sound being mentioned, I rage quit at the point where they said, unless you upgrade your SMA before October, you'll be paying almost twice as more. they fucking admited right there, that FLAWS is over priced. I just couldn't take it any more.
if NVDA continues lagging in the near future, I'll just hunt off a decent 8.1 laptop, with a 5th or 4th gen i7, and use that for 5 years. even getting 3 or 4 8.1 laptops will be cheaper than getting CLAWS. I'd much rather buy a mac book, seeing those things get software updates for 6 or so years, thank you very much.