2018-07-20 22:41:06 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2018-07-20 23:10:36)

Sa11ytaire on the xbox1!

Just a solitaire game for now, but hopefully the start of things to come

https://youtu.be/EWvXyyDxXq4

2018-07-21 00:23:49

Kind of clickbaity don't you think? While its cool someone's tested the API and it actually works, I don't think you'll find too many getting excited over solitaire. I don't know anyone who plays it, or even knows how to play it.

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2018-07-21 00:40:46

Definitely a little clickbaity... lol. The game's name should've been in the thread title, imo.

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2018-07-21 00:50:47

I know how to play that game and frequently play Spoonbill's version of it.

Yikes! According to the game's statistics I've played it about 2,200 times and win just under half of them.

2018-07-21 01:04:24

I used to know but I've since forgotten the rules. I think you go for combinations, like putting a red 10 over a black 9, I don't know what the rules for suites are or anything though.

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2018-07-21 02:21:20

I agree with ian in post 1. Yes it's just a solitar game for now, but this is just the beginning. Who knows where we'll be a few years from now. We'll actually have games that work with narrator and have sounds and music with them next. You just wait and see. And I too know nothing about solitar but if I could get my hands on this game I'd play with it and try to figure it out. Don't be so negative ironcross, I know we've been let down before, but don't let that keep you from getting excited about this new development. Finally people are starting to listen to us. I know I'm an incurable optimist and that annoys the hell out of some of you and that's okay with me. I tend not to let negative nancies get me down. Have a wonderful day my friends and I look forward to seeing where things go from here.

2018-07-21 02:45:43

Yes, this is basic for now, but the journey of a thousand miles and all that. Hopefully we'll see more games use this later on.

Take care, it's a desert out there.

2018-07-21 03:41:45

Most people seeing that title are thinking its related to a game they'd actually play, that's all I'm saying.

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2018-07-21 05:49:02

Who is the developer of this game?
I am wondering if they have more games.

2018-07-21 17:52:17

To everyone who's saying this is click batey, I disagree. It's a console game and it has TTS, it holds true to the title. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of Solitaire either, but it's still a step in the right direction.

2018-07-23 12:23:41

a bit underwhelming tbh, so many card games out there and now we have another one?

2018-07-23 15:08:41

I don't have a console at the moment, preferring to use my PC for gaming, but I've always thought that games might be more fun if I could sit back and relax in the living room to play them. One of the reasons I haven't bought a console yet is the lack of truly accessible games on them. While this is only a simple Solitaire card game, of which there are quite a few already, it is the first game that I've heard of that is actually using the built in screen reader to be accessible to the visually impaired, and as far as I'm concerned, that is a step in the right direction, and long over due.

2018-07-23 18:25:55

yeah but again why does it have to be a card game? sorry but we've seen so many of these you can't blame people for being underwhelmed by this news. they could have chosen a different type of game to do this with then a better response would have been received. i agree that it's long overdue but like i say the choice of game is a bad one.

2018-07-23 20:34:56

Agreed. They could've done any genre of game... fighting games are known to be enjoyed by blind people if no other genre, so it could've at least been that. But we have what we have, and it is definitely a step in theright direction... but I'm quite frankly tired of people who think blind people can only enjoy either repetetive linear audio adventures which have very limited gameplay, or card, board and other tabletop games. Thank goodness for AHero's Call... that is the most inovative audio game since Swamp, imo.

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2018-07-23 20:38:33

I'll be excited when this comes to a mainstream game people actually play, it doesn't necessarily have to be of a genre that I personally play, as long as its something that other people will play. Until then, this is... yes I like underwhelming.

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2018-07-23 21:01:39

This response is a perfect example of why very few developers in the main stream games market want to develop audio games. With reactions like the ones you people are presenting, is it any wonder why Valve refuses to make Steam accessible?

At least now I know where to place the blame for the lack of main stream quality audio games. It's not the developers as I had previously thought.

2018-07-23 21:29:07

hey, it's a start good on them!

Blindness isn't a disability, but a diffrent way of seeing things

2018-07-23 22:45:44

I've said it before, and I will say it again. There is a balance between lack of grattitude, and wanting to dig into explored potential. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's the stance I've always presented. I'm grateful for any advancements made, but if we keep being ok with small, simple games every time someone makes one for us, that is all we are going to get. Why have there been so few games like A Hero's Call? Two reasons, and one is indeed of the developers who had the vision and set out to make their conceptualized game a reality. The other reason we have so few games of that nature is because although people clamer for them, noone actually offers to help in the process...

The reason Valve will not make steam accessibile is not because of this community. It's because they, and most mainstream companies, have never had the time or inclination to make it happen. Nether Realms added tiny accessible cues to their games after Ed Boon met a blind fighting game player at EVO, and that is what it will take to really get accesibility on the map. Valve, Capcom and other companies receive hundreds of emails on a daily basis. One or two of them calling for accessibility won't get much notice, whereas a blind player speaking face-to-face with you is much harder to ignore. Emails are not a real a thing as meeting people... so blaming lack of accessibility of steam on an ungrateful attitude isn't entirely fair. The other side has to have interest in making their platform accessible. That's the root of the problem...

Having said that, I am glad this game is on xbox1. But again, if we keep settling for small, simple games like this when when are we going to get mainstream quality? We aren't, because people will simply see that we are ok with every morsal and crumb we are given if we just roll over and accept whatever we get. And the developers  do play a part in the quality we get... the Japanese audio game developers, few as they are, have consistently produced games approaching if not matching mainstream quality, even though from what I've read, they get responses as ungrateful and negative as some often give in this community. I will say it one more time... I am not ungrateful. If I come of as that way, I appologize.. I simply realize the potential that is wasted.

Discord: clemchowder633

2018-07-23 23:30:04

This topic is great. We are comparing AHC to this topic here? So, AHC is  a Windows game. Imagine yourself making an accessible console game. What will your first game be? A top RPG with sidequests, or a card/gambling game as a sort of way to test TTS support and see how popular it is among the community? All our popular developers of audio games started small. If you think that AHC is an exception, well think again as Ian reeds, one of their main developers developed games before and they were not RPG adventure games. When a new developer makes something, I surely wont expect them to make a fully accessible fighting game with hours of gameplay. We have lots of card games? Alright then. Fire up your console and show me 5 of them? Oh yeah, they don't really exist on consoles now do they?

2018-07-23 23:52:52

Why should a developer devote the time and resources into developing an accessible main stream quality game when all they see is an almost total lack of gratitude when a developer shows an interest in making accessible games?

No developer is going to dive in and create a main stream quality audio game until they have tested the waters to see what kind of reception their effort produces.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the developer of this game is never seen or heard from again in the audio game arena with the reception their first offering is getting.

No, we don't have to be satisfied with mediocre offerings, but this very negative approach isn't going to convince any developers that we are deserving of some decent quality games.

2018-07-24 00:03:23

@nidza07

Why do you think consoles don't have card games... if I was building an accessible console game from scratch, hypotheticaly speaking o course, I wouldn't aim for something the likes of A Hero's Call, because you're right, that would be a big first undertaking.. but I would aim for at least a side scrolling beat em up, because those are relatively easy to work with and gives a lot of room for creativity. Something small doesn't have to start with cardgames if you want to add and check accesibility. The skullgirls developers understood that, which was why even though they were interested in accessibility, they took the game that was already there and investigated how they could add system level TTS to the PC version. The same could be said for xbox1. Testing the waters with a card game shows how little is expected of blind gamers. But again, as I've already said multiple times, I'm glad this has at least made its way onto he system, even though I personally will not play it. It spreads awareness, if nothing else.

@orco, I'm asking this out of pure curiocity and not as an argument.. then tell me the line. When is it ok for us to start ofering constructive / critical feedback? IF we are to celebrate every time a small game comes along simply for the fact that it uses system level tts on a console, then whe are we allowed to ask for more? Because I guarantee you that if most mainstream developers see that, then that's all they will ever alocate funds to producing. And if you take to mainstream gaming websites.. you will see that although there is negativity here, it's nothing, and I mean nothing, compared to the way developers and game makers get bashed out there in that jungle that is the online gamingworld.

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2018-07-24 02:03:16

assault freak brings up valid points, I see what he is saying. we can't jump up and down with joy for every little small thing that becomes assesible. that's why there are hundreds of those text pick a choice games assesible for smart phones, they see how content and happy we are with them, so they keep making them without trying to step outside the box. so I think all assault was saying was, there is a way we can be grateful for this advancement with tts in a game on a main stream console, but we should also be looking to push things forward and not settle for just anything. I love Microsoft man, they are really stepping forward in the right direction for disabled gamers, not just those with visual impairments. and side note, this post was a bit click batey lol I said that before I even read the comment

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2018-07-24 02:35:12

@19 I don't think any of us are suggesting to build a game from the ground up with accessibility as the top priority. I am glad they have got it working with the solitaire game, it is proof that the API is working, and that it can work on other games. But honestly, who plays solitaire, you could ask your grandma, and she might know, all I know is that it has something to do with putting combinations of cards together on top of each other. So if you have a read 9, you need a black 10 to go on top of it. I don't think that's being ungrateful, I think its saying hey, look, we're gamers, we play the same games as everyone else is playing. So, OK its a good step, it shows that things are working, but forgive me if I don't start jumping up and down about it.

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2018-07-24 03:07:17

That is really making a huge assumption that not lots of people play solitaire games. Hell, spoonbill software has a bunch of solitaire games for PC and they are popular enough. I am not saying this is something groundbreaking, but it is a start and it should be welcomed. Why should we think that they wont advance past card games if they do not have a previously build bad reputation? I can understand the skepticism when we talk about known developers, but here we have a game and we are afraid that they will just keep making simple games because everybody is happy. If we see them doing that, alright, I'll support that it's too much same games already. However, unless I see a reason to think like that I wont. We can be skeptic about new developers just because of old developers who have nothing  to do with this.

2018-07-24 03:23:22 (edited by Ethin 2018-07-24 03:24:11)

@Orko, please, please get rid of the attitude you've got. Its not helping the situation. We can't be grateful for every little accessible mainstream title that comes along. We do that and that's all we'll get. You think this is ungratefulness? You really do? Then, sir, I encourage you to look at the game reviews out there for mainstream games; you will find that this is far, far from ungrateful. I advise you not, though, to go in there and start prieching this shit. You'll be figuratively torn apart. If you're going to post in a mainstream forum about reviews... I'd just say don't. Clearly you're not ready for the true behavior of mainstream gamers; its much, much worse than this forum ever has been in its entire existence, flame wars, arguments and fights included.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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