2018-07-15 16:20:30

Hey there guys, karate25 here. As some of you know, I've decided on Python as my programming language of choice since I've heard that it's supposed to be an easy language to learn. I know also that I won't be able to put together a game in 3 hours so I'm not even wurried about that, nor did I ever even think of trying to do that. What I'd like now is some help with installing Python on my system. I'm running a laptop using windows 8.1 and I've tried both the web installer and the exe installer from the python web site. I haven't been able to find it on my system with jaws, but when I pull up my programs and features it'll come up both the launcher and the setup program. I've uninstalled them though since I can't use them. So any sort of help you can give me with this would be greatly appreciated. I'm using jaws as my screen reader too. I'm looking forward to this and it's exciting and all but I can tell I'm going to need some help getting off the ground. Have a wonderful day to you all and I hope to hear from you soon.

2018-07-15 16:53:59

Hi. First, such topics should be posted in developers room. And about your problem. You need to download the installer first(I recommend download the 32 bit version even if you are using 64 bit). Then install it. Make sure you check the tickbox that says add python to path or something like that. Then after installation you can type python yourscript.py into the command prompt or windows powershell console to run your programs. Replace yourscript with the name of your script. Could be anything like game.py, script.py etc. There's also a good tutorial resource on tutorials point website. Just google it and you'll find it. There are others like how to think like a computer scientist, etc. Googling python tutorial gives you the best results

---
Co-founder of Sonorous Arts.
Check out Sonorous Arts on github: https://github.com/sonorous-arts/
my Discord: kianoosh.shakeri2#2988

2018-07-15 17:19:30

oops, sorry about putting it in the wrong section. So I have to actually do a search for python in my windows search? hmm. That's odd but okay. I'll try it now. Why do you recommend using the 32 bit rather than the 64 bit? just curious.

2018-07-15 17:29:02

Hi there.
Agreed with kianoosh, I recommend installing 32 bit version as well.
I am using 8.1 as well.
Then once you download the installer, go in your downloads folder, and open the setup file.
You can do the customized installation and you might want to leave everything checked in the first step
In the second step it'll ask you whether you want to add python path to your environment, you might want to leave that checked aswell, and it'll ask you where to put the python directory. Hope I explained well.

Paul

2018-07-15 18:18:00

Hi there Paul, yes indeed, you did explain well, although I think I might have done it the hard way. Python is on my system, and I went in and typed in print hello world with no cymbols or anything because I don't know beef from bull's ass what the syntax looks like lol and I've tried looking on youtube for different python tutorials and they're really no help at all. Here's the way I did it. I went to python's web site, went to the windows section and scrolled down all the way to the last possible download for windows which was the 32 bit version as recommended. When the prompt came up whether to run or save the program, I clicked run and then it did its thing downloading the program. I selected all of the check boxes deciding to run the install now function rather than trying to customize the program. After pressing the install now button, nothing happened. Jaws didn't say installation was successful or anything so I pressed alt and f4 to get out of everything and then went to my command bar and simply typed in the word python and it pulled up the program itself. I don't know how to pull up the python word processing program of course but there you go. The process I used to install python on my computer. I've got a feeling I'm in for a long road ahead.

2018-07-15 19:03:15

There's some good advice up there already.  You should have python 3.6 or whatever in your programs start menu and some tutorials will suggest you use the ide or idle that is the python development environment.  I took the simple advice of using windows powershell as suggested above and I have never regretted it.  I also simply used notepad to get started and now my programs are exceeding 4000 lines I still use notepad.  Once you find a tutorial you like, you will fly along.  Post up whatever you find the most useful, it will help other beginners.

Try my free games and software at www.rockywaters.co.uk

2018-07-15 19:35:00

Idle is not really accessible.
Plus once you've installed python and you want the code processing you might want to search for python in the start menu, or press windows + r and enter python in the dialogue, then press enter.
I am not sure which tutorial recommending since I've read a lot of them, though you might want to see tutorials point, which will explain differences between python 2 and python3 if you choose the last mentioned.
@post 6:
I definitely agree, notepad all the way smile

Paul

2018-07-15 19:36:03 (edited by pauliyobo 2018-07-15 19:36:50)

sorry for double posting.
At some point you might want to look the docs as well which are in the pythondirectory/doc, so that you can have the references for modules, or just seeing the new things that are in the python release that you're using.

Paul

2018-07-15 19:53:09

If you're old school, you can use notepad, it will do nothing for you, but then again, it will not get in your way, and do things you do not expect it to do. If you want a different approach, you can try Notepad++. It recognizes many programming languages, selects them on load in by file extension, and provides suggestions while typing. An NVDA addon provides better accessibility and opens the suggestions up for us, since natively, they are not accessible. It will load in everything you've been working on when you launch it, it has tabs, so you can switch between files, and it can do auto indenting. The downside to all of this is taht you have to watch it closely or it will do things you don't expect, or maybe don't want.
And yes, do not even try to use Idle, it doesn't work.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-07-15 22:36:42

Hey guys, thanks so much for the advice on using notepad instead of idle. I wouldn't be able to find that anyway, but I'm sure I'll be able to find notepad eventually. I'm glad you're helping me so much because honestly I'm extremely nervous about learning to code, in fact so much so that I'm even beginning to wonder if I've even got the brain power to even learn to do it correctly since math is a four letter swear word in my house. I mean I have never ever been able to really pick it up. Not algebra, calculus or trig. I had to have a tutor to hold both my hands and walk me through it. Does that tell you all how stupid I really am? I will try this though, but I won't promise anything. All I can tell you for certain is that I've got a regular traffic jam of game ideas up here in my brain and it makes me sad that I can't make them come to fruition. Finally, I've been on the tutorials point website but for some reason I can't do a search for python. It doesn't seem to be very accessible with Jaws. I'll keep trying though. Have a wonderful day and I look forward to hearing from you soon. Since I'm wanting to make different kinds of simulation games, farming games and eventually our own virtual world. I give you that outline because I'd like to know what kinds of games to start out with that are small in nature and easy to build. I've often been told to build games that are small but that revolve around the kinds of games that I would eventually like to build in the future. Have a wonderful day and I hope to hear from you soon.

2018-07-15 23:10:57 (edited by pauliyobo 2018-07-15 23:12:25)

I searched for python3 tutorial tutorials point.
here's the one you probably need
the python3 tutorial

Paul

2018-07-16 01:07:12

Hey there Paul, karate25 here. Yep, that's exactly the tutorial I found on there. Thanks a bunch for showing it to me though and I honestly am feeling just a little bit better about trying to learn python. Incidentally, another type of development environment for writing in python is something called py charm. Have anyone on here used that? I've heard that the py charm community addition is good to use since it has a debugger and everything you'll need to write your code. Is that one accessible? finally, I've tried writing a hello world program, and just for fun, I've been doing it in python itself and I either get an indentation error that says unexpected indent, or an invalid syntax error if I try to rewrite it again. Here's how I'm writing it. print ("Hello Python!") have a wonderful day and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

2018-07-16 07:50:59

Hi.
I'll recommend the tutorial called: Learn Python the hard way.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2018-07-16 10:21:00 (edited by pauliyobo 2018-07-16 10:22:04)

@post 12
about pycharm, no I don't use it.
Here's something I'll explain about indentation, because I too, got stuck on it for a while
You use indentation for separating blocks.
A block is a group of code. If you learned BGT before or any c based language a block is a group of code between braces.
when you are at the starting of a script until you define an if, or a loop your indentation doesn't need to have spaces.
so your function should be like this:
print("hello python")
I'm sorry, this might sound a bit complicated though, but hope you understood me.

Paul

2018-07-16 12:52:17

About notepad++ Maybe i'm only the one who doesn't like it. I use another of these notepady things called notepad2. This thing doesn't take time to be loaded like notepad++, Is completely accessible itself, rekecnises programming languages, Have auto indentation support, and much more. It's a very nice one for me indeed

---
Co-founder of Sonorous Arts.
Check out Sonorous Arts on github: https://github.com/sonorous-arts/
my Discord: kianoosh.shakeri2#2988

2018-07-16 12:59:54

Notepad++ takes time to load? pops up instantly for me.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-07-16 13:45:51

notepad++ is slow in my end, that's why I don't use it.

Paul

2018-07-16 17:57:40

Hey there guys, karate25 here again. I really think I'm going to have fun with python now that I know how to print text without any errors. I've graduated from hello python to let's all beat the crap outa barney. Now I can move on to learning other things with python now. Like how in the world do I save a file in notepad and then ask python to run it? by the way, I'm saving my practice files on my thumb drive so that I'll be able to retrieve them more easily. I'm saving them in my music folder on my thumb drive by the way. So how would I ask python to run my programs? I can't press the alt key to bring up menues to run programs or anything like that but maybe it's just something so small that I'm missing it. Your take away message with all of this is that I think I've finally found a programming language that will work for me. I'm not getting overly excited yet but I'm very cautiously optimistic about my ability to learn and grasp python. I can see why it's a popular language and easy to pick up and learn. Have a wonderful day to you all and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

2018-07-16 18:07:49

hi there.
Glad you like python.
As for running your scripts, you should save your files with a .py extension.
then open the command line in the directory of the file and type:
python filename.py

Paul

2018-07-16 22:42:30

Yup notepad++ is a bit slow for me as well. I mean it's someway that i don't like it don't know how ti discribe it. It takes time to load when i start it for the first time after i log on into windows, And it might happen if I don't use it for a long time and try to reload it again. Plus, Notepad++ have some things that i don't like, For instance every empty square is spoke "blank" which i don't like. I think it spoke linefeeds blank as well.

---
Co-founder of Sonorous Arts.
Check out Sonorous Arts on github: https://github.com/sonorous-arts/
my Discord: kianoosh.shakeri2#2988

2018-07-16 22:50:32

okay. By opening the command line in the directory do I just press windows r and then the name of the file and where to find it? so if I'm saving it in the music folder of my thumb drive, I would type something like e:\music\python hello world.py for example? I would guess that I'd have to tell the computer where to find that file. Good lord, and I'm supposed to be in the modern age. I'm ashamed of myself lol. I ought to know how to do this stuff.

2018-07-16 23:38:18

Yeah its basic computer usage, you should know it, but I would recommend you type cmd, and do your python filename.py from there, because when it tracebacks, and it will, if you do it your way, you'll never see it, it will run, traceback, then since it has nothing else to do, it will just close. This way, it won't.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-07-17 02:27:38 (edited by Ronand 2018-07-17 13:05:24)

Hi @karate25

In answer to your question in @3, the difference between 32 and 64 bits is more important when you write programs that need more computational power and need to handle more RAM or very large numbers. The term 32 bit or 64 bit refers to the architecture of the microprocessor (the "brain") in your computer. Even though most laptop and desktop computers nowadays have a 64 bit processor that enables them to handle more physical RAM and more complex calculations, few programs actually take advantage of this extra power. A 64 bit computer can run programs written for 32 bit machines but a 32 bit computer can't run programs written on a 64 bit machine. So, people here recommend that you use the 32 bit python to make sure that is compatible with other computers.

Regarding your question in @21, once you open cmd you should use  "python e:\music\python hello world.py" without the quotes. It's also good practice to not have blank spaces on the names of your files; it is recommended to use a dash, so instead of calling your file hello world.py it is recommended to call it hello-world.py. This is to make sure that if you run your program on a Windows PC or a Mac or a Linux computer the system understands the name of your script correctly.

2018-07-17 23:03:27

Hey there Ronand, karate25 here. Thanks a lot for that guidance and advice. I found a link to both books called a byte of python and how to think like a computer scientist in the developer's room so I am definitely going to get my hands on both of those and read them and practice with them. I've read the reviews on a byte of python and I've read that some people after reading that book have actually begun building their own small games which I think is pretty cool. Although I fully understand and accept that I might not get to that point right away and I'm willing to work and learn how to get to get to that point. I'm going to let you know now that most if not all of my stuff will be free to play since I'm not really doing this for the money both since there's really not much of it to be made with audio games, but also because after 15 years I've finally managed to round myself up some employment that's relatively stress free and is able to be done completely from home so I'll be able to learn python and eventually make games if I reach that point. The other reason I'm not planning on charging for my games is quite frankly I'm doing it strictly for the enjoyment and the knowledge that I'll be bringing unique and new kinds of games to our community hopefully ones that haven't been done before. Virtual life, simulations and hopefully eventually a virtual world.

2018-07-18 02:20:42

Kudos to you @karate25. All the best with your programming! From experience I can tell you that it's not easy at first but once you get a hang of it, get into the right mindset, it becomes second nature. With determination I'm sure you'll be able to code some amazing audiogames. A somewhat "pro" tip about programming: if you have a problem with your code, it's very likely someone else has had it before and with some googling and asking around you'll be able to find an answer to almost any question. All the best!