2018-06-22 06:12:52

Hi everyone! Has anyone bin noticing that they have no good audiogames for the mac? I mean, yes you can get windows but I mean for those who don't want to run windows, why can't their be audiogames for the mac?

And not only that, their are no good audiogames for the iPhone? What is going on here. Are developers trying to make more audiogames for windows? Yes I do also agree that windows is a good platform. But why can't people just make audiogames for the mac, example would be A hero's call. That would be great if it were on the mac. So far not. It's for windows only for windows. And yes they did take a lot of time to put it on windows, now all they need to do is they need to port it onto mac so that [mac] users can play the game as well. Yes, you can get VMware fusion or Bootcamp, but still. Many audiogames are not their for the mac, and I'm starting to wonder about some of these developers. Everytime I go to the App Store I always see games for the mac, but they are not accessible.

And I'm sure developers will not listen to us, well some of them will but many of [them] not. But anyway. Just my opinion, but I really think their should be more audiogames for the mac, besides windows. And also for iOS. We really should have a audio game crossover, if you will. But yeah. Thanks. I hope you understand this situation I'm having and other [mac] users are having who don't have VMware fusion.

2018-06-22 07:25:17

@1, look at the amount of entitlement here! Woohoo!
I think that most of your questions can be answered by simple logic: Windows/Linux is easier to program for than iOS and MacOS are. And BGT isn't exactly cross-platform.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2018-06-22 07:32:42

I don't know about mac but there are WAAAY more games we could play on ios than there are on android. Not that there aren't any but not as many and not as diverse. Thats beginning to change thankfully.
Also you have to take into consideration how difficult it is to port stuff from platform to platform.
Try checking out applevis for mac audio games because I know they're out there. In fact, oriale gomez is working on one if memory serves

2018-06-22 07:56:09

Before you go spewing crap like this any further, at least read up on the developer requirements apple have. In order to develop for apple platforms, in this case the mac, and be in the appstore, you need to pay a hefty fee of at least 60 bucks a year, and it might even be close to if not well over 100, i can't remember exactly. And i might be wrong, but I think that's also only if your game gets approved, otherwise you don't get in there at all. And also, while there aren't a whole lot of games for the mac, there are a few. Not at all nearly as many as there on windows, but still a few. And what the hell are you saying about the iphone having no audiogames? Dude, there are at least 100 out there that are at least some what playable, check applevis for god sakes.

I am the blind jedi, I use the force to see. I am the only blind jedi.

2018-06-22 08:18:14

Hi.
Because of the negative energy in the first post, I will let you find out for yourself what great games we have for the Mac.
So, you are bitching at the developers for not making accessible games for the Mac. Well, learn Python, and start making more accessible games for the Mac than we already have. If you are just that negative, then do something about it instead of just sitting there complaining about everything.
If you really are a gamer, then you have the choice of installing Windows. But instead, you just limit yourself and complain. You also have the choice of using Wine, which I don't have much experience with. But the options are there, if you really want to play more games than we already have.
Regarding IOS: Well, I don't agree there. We have a lot of audiogames there as well.
Again, it just seems like you are complaining the hell out of everything, instead of trying to do something about it.

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2018-06-22 08:37:58

Isn't a blind legend available on mac?

That game is pretty good, even if it doesn't have replay value.

Then you have that game with the coins, I think it's called change reaction.

I'm sure there are others, I don't have a mac so I'm just going off what I've seen on the net.

Oh and if rumours about ios apps working on mac next year are true, then you should have a lot more games to play next year.

2018-06-22 08:47:38

Hmmmm, Eric I sort of wonder where you got the idea that there are no audiogames for the Iphone. As people have said there are hundreds, go and check applevis or have a poke around the database over here.

As for the mack, no, there aren't many audiogames, but there are a few.
Off the top of my head there is change reaction and silver dollar by Draconis, the games from audio.it such as the inquisitor games, grail to the thief, A blind legend and blindscape, and possibly more that I am forgetting.

There are then plenty of browser games, and the mac interactive fiction player zoom which can play if games.

I've heard of a mud client called tintin that can run on mac, but I'm not %100 sure on that.

Either way, unfortunately yes, the Mac is a little under represented in audiogame terms as compared to windows or Ios, but that unfortunately is what happens when its difficult to write games for the system, indeed I'll admit that was part of the reason I decided not to get a mac myself.

Still, there are a few games out there and you can always run with wine etc, and Windows and Ios are going strong games wise.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-06-22 09:56:55

As you can see, most audio games developers use BGT to code their games, so there isn't much games for Mac.

2018-06-22 11:38:50 (edited by musicalman 2018-06-22 11:40:57)

Erik, I will spare you a rant because I'm tired. But I agree with everyone here. I'll admit, some of my favorite IOS games have gone for good because of no more 32 bit compatibility, which is sad. Smack Me, Echo here to Play, Mouse Kick, Ear Monsters, Blindside, and a few others I can't think of right now no longer exist. I also liked Sixthsense, but I'm not sure if that's around either. I won't mention Somethinelse because that is a more involved case, but those games are gone too. And I've heard that sideloading apps is not at all easy, so even if I still had .ipa files of those apps, they probably couldn't be transferred on my phone now, and even if they did, I doubt they'd run now. Meh. But, we still do have some games for IOS, and I haven't checked Applevis lately so there may be a few I don't know about. I also don't have a Mac, but if it will indeed be possible to port apps to Mac very easily, I hope some mobile games can take advantage of that! I've wanted to get a Mac for experimenting with things that I can't try on Windows, but I don't see myself ever using it full time, in fact the Mac may sit on a shelf forgotten because that's often what happens with my stuff. And there are too many irreplaceable Windows things for me, the plethora of old and new games being one of those things. Testing Mac games would certainly be one more thing to use it for though.

I'm genuinely curious about this. Why do we actually have more games for IOS than Mac? Is it just that mobile gaming is more popular than Mac gaming? Or, is there something else to it like differing requirements for IOS vs Mac?

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2018-06-22 12:25:13 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2018-06-22 12:29:46)

"Is it just that mobile gaming is more popular than Mac gaming"

this, to a ridiculous degree. Mobiles are the main gaming platform full stop, let alone just out of mobile Vs mac. Consoles and PCs and especially macs are a small drop in the vastness of the mobile gaming ocean.

iOS - 800,000 games.
Android - 700,000 games.
Steam for PC - 25,000 games.
Steam for Mac - 7000 games.
PS4 - 1700 games.
XB1 - 1500 games.

There are just under 400 accessible or mostly accessible iOS games listed on applevis. So that makes a total of 0.05% of iOS games that are accessible, i.e. one accessible game for every 2000 inaccessible ones. Take from that what you will.

2018-06-22 13:25:29

Ian interesting stats, though also remember that in terms of this community there is far more by way of legacy stuff.
I doubt many but hardcore fans these days are running copies of quake and other early 2000's pc games, but in audiogame terms since the total pool of games is so small, any loss is keenly felt.
therefore windows is supporting quite  the legacy in gaming terms, as well as new releases.

Another question is that of screen reading software.
part of the reason the Iphone took off so well in the VI community is its inherent accessibility out of the box, and also how easy it is to make games accessible for the platform.

With NVda being increasingly a fully functional screen reader on Windows though, and the fact that even narrator is more than a token alternative these days, the argument that the mac provides out of the box access is a lot less strong than it used to be, which, along with its generally more expensive price tag is likely making it a less attractive alternative for Vi computer users, which in turn means less people have them, which in turn means less developers write games for them etc.

Then of course as others have mentioned is the fact that Bgt is not available for Mac.
Whatever people say about Bgt I can say its massivly increased the amount of games being produced, heck at risk of sounding like a grumpy old geezer, I remember the days when you were lucky if you got a new game release a month.

We're also getting more sighted developers involved with audiogames too, look at cases such as code 7, and theyy once again tend to produce games for windows, something which I cannot explain, though if indeed developing for the mac is inherently expensive in itself that might have something to do with it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2018-06-22 13:36:57

@OP Holy entitlement, Bat Man. Jesus, I would recommend you actually try to code a game rather than bitching all the time. GO on then, download python ,if you're on a mac, you probably have it, open your terminal and type which python, and you'll see if its there or not. Also, try which python3 to see if it comes with 2 and 3 installed. Get Pygame or Pyglet and get to town on it. Weren't you the one that made the topic that was like why aren't there any good audio games anymore? I don't even have any words. The world doesn't run on fairy dust. It's not like someone says let's port this game to mac, and yay, so it be. Also as pointed out above by another poster, the developer's account on iOS is expensive, so you have to make money or you're eating that cost.

I really can't say anything more, because it probably won't make a difference, entitled blindies just want more crap spoon fed to them.

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2018-06-22 14:32:28

Though I heard in 2019 or so, MacOS Mojave would be able to runs the iOS apps. So if you happen to own an iOS game, you could try to run with your Mac, if the developer of the game willing to port their iOS apps to run on Mojave.

2018-06-22 16:02:23 (edited by jack 2018-08-06 21:55:06)

Ray @musicalman don't worry, I'll spare you from having to potentially write the rant, here we go...
Erick, it's obvious to me you haven't done your research about running games on the mac, nor how much of a small market it really is for developers. Of course, when the opportunity comes out to show entitlement, these last few threads you've done just that. Vmware fusion? Really? Yeah I purchased Fusion, regrettably having to pay for upgrades which is kind of annoying but alright, I'll take it. But if people actually have $2000 to spend on the mac, they probably will have enough money to spend on fusion. Why not use the extra money towards that instead of the, quote, Apple Care program. On a related note to that, I'm proudly going the third party route for my mac's battery repair (there's no way I'm taking a 5day battery/top-panel repair for a wopping 485bucks. Anyway...Fusion itself? It's so easy a 2 year old can use it. They designed the thing with user-friendliness in mind. And If you're so inclined, as you pointed out you can bootcamp the thing and that's as free as it gets. Hell, thanks to Intel, Mac is just another pc. If you're that pissed about there not being enough games for mac, you can bootcamp windows on it, remove mac osx's partitions, and just have another extremely best-in-class luxury pc that runs windows very smoothly, and you can play all the games you want! And even simpler than that, I'm a trifle disappointed that you didn't pick up wine! I'm trying and failing to package all the l-works games into wine. I say it's failing because some games aren't working, judgement day/super Liam/pigeon panic in particular? But I"m still trying. If you run games through wine, you can run them as if they were native mac apps. It's that simple. If you don't know how to use wine then figure it out for crying out loud.

erick wrote:

But why can't people just make audiogames for the mac, example would be A hero's call. That would be great if it were on the mac. So far not. It's for windows only for windows. And yes they did take a lot of time to put it on windows, now all they need to do is they need to port it onto mac...

Don't make me laugh. Seriously dude? Do you realize how much work went into coding not only the game, but the game's engine, that was coded from the ground up by the one Ian Reed? Also, Ian is unfortunately not actively coding the engine in Out of Sight Games anymore. Even if he was, do you honestly think he'd spend all the time coding the engine, then the game, for such an uncommon gaming platform that is the mac? How long would that take? a year? Two? Yeah, I don't think so buddy. Again. Run A hero's CAll through Wine, and your case of game withdrawal is gone, just don't have too much wine to celebrate. Lol!
Anyway, with the windows game market being small enough, the mac is even smaller as the amount of mac users in this community is probably fewer than windows and mobile combined. Fortunately for the mac you don't exactly need to put your games on the app store, so you don't have to pay Apple's ridiculously huge contract fee of exactly a hundred bucks a year. And this is why I'll never develop for ios. Lol. But it's still a lot of time spent developing games for a mac and it won't get much return. Think investment vs return dude. Why invest all that time, and get a quarter of that returned if you're lucky? It's just not worth it.
And while we're on the subject of games that aren't on the app store, why the hell didn't you mention the most recent development of javascript electron-driven games? DarkDefender, Cyclepath, and just recently Beatstar? You've really been hiding under a rock haven't you. Those games now run better than ever on both windows and mac! So if you're gonna play the entitlement card, one just don't play it, and two, get your facts straight!
Whew, we made it. Rant over.

2018-06-22 17:14:28

Eric, you ask why people can't "just make games for the Mac"—an example being A Hero's Call? Well, since you asked...

Let's travel back in time, to a time when a young idealistic creative lead (let's call him Joseph) was talking to a hard-working engine developer (let's call him Ian) about what platform AHC was going to be released on. "There's a great big market out there on Mac," Joseph said. "It would be so good if we could release on both platforms, wouldn't it? Think of how many more customers we could reach!"

You do know we can't just release the game as-is on Mac, right?" said Ian patiently, knowing that Joseph was pretty ignorant about these things.

"No," said Joseph. "I'm technically ignorant. Why can't we?"

"Well..." Ian proceeded to go into a bunch of technobabble that means nothing to Joseph. Things about libraries, and dependencies, and frameworks, and stuff that I couldn't explain to you if I wanted to, cause it's all over my head.

"So," Joseph said, pretending he'd understood anything Ian said, "what would it take to port the existing game over to Mac?"

"Basically I'd have to rewrite the engine," Ian said. "And then we'd have to maintain two separate versions of the engine, one for Mac, and one for PC. Oh...and you'd have to buy me a Mac, too, because I don't have one."

...so, you see, developing a game for two platforms essentially doubles the work-load for independent developers. This is especially true for blind developers who don't have access to modern engines and other tools that might make cross-platform releases a little more seamless. And if you want to suggest that developers simply contract out to have their game sported...let's just say I happen to know from some firsthand experience that the costs of porting a custom-built game to a different platform is considerable. So considerable that it's safe to say that nobody is making enough in the audio games market to make it a sustainable option.

So, I agree with your statement that it would be great if A Hero's Call was on the Mac. I really, really do. In fact, if you care to donate $20,000 or so to Out of Sight Games, or if you have a way of doubling our player base, we just might be able to make that happen. After all, as you say, now "all" we need to do is port it to Mac... Or you could go with Jack's suggestion, and use Wine. It's a bit cheaper, after all.

PS: Jack, your post #14 earned a thumbs-up from me.

2018-06-22 18:22:37

Thanks, Joseph couldn't have said it better. Believe it or not, some of the big-names in the video game market use wine for their commercial mac ports. GTA San-Andreas? Available in the mac app store for $15, uses an engine from Trans-gaming called cider, which is just souped up wine optimized specifically for games rather than your office programs. Probably by including all the high-end graphics drivers, directx, all all the stuff that is trivial to obtain on the pc but aren't native to the mac. Want proof? You buy Grand Theft Auto San Andreas from the app store, show the app's contents, and under a trans-gaming directory is, you guessed it, a windows xp c-drive containing the exact copy of the game as if you had bought the dvd for windows. As for whether Cider gives you any advantage in this case? I'd say no, because Wine handles A H C pretty well. But just so that Erick knows that even mainstream developers could say no to a direct native mac port because what's the point? What's the point if existing compatibility layers can run the software just as well? What are you losing out on other than the ability to play A H C with your beloved Alex voice? Lol.

2018-06-22 18:47:50

+1 to 14 and 15
The thing is about San andreas, I got to hear someone playing it over Skype once, and the sounds are shit compared to the PC version. I don't know if I would buy it just for that reason alone, the quality is just not there, but that is cool that they were able to do that.

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2018-06-22 19:08:12 (edited by Ethin 2018-06-22 19:11:50)

One of the other reasons AHC is not portable to the Mac is that AHC uses the .NET framework and windows-specific libraries. you want it on mac, Erick? Why don't you donate $25000.00 to out-of-site games for the mac port, then donate $225.5 million or so to Microsoft to get the entire .NET Framework ported to Mac and altered so it actually makes sense on Mac in the first place, M'kay? Honestly man, you've gotta be the most entitled guy on here. You want this shit so badly? Make it yourself! You know... you remind me of rich people who turn out to be arrogant assholes because everything was handed to them on a silver platter and, as soon as they enter the real world, they find out that life doesn't work that way. So what do they do? Those rich, arrogant assholes bitch and complain, and spend millions and millions of dollars on useless shit that will never, ever get used. And when it finally, finally happens, you know who's cheering? Only that one rich, arrogant asshole, because everyone else on the planet hates him. Harsh lesson of reality, sir: Life doesn't give you everything! This is not a game where you can type in a few cheat codes and *** boom *** -- you get it immediately! You want something, better work for it!

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2018-06-22 23:18:51 (edited by jack 2018-06-22 23:27:44)

I think we need to start this a h c for mac auction while the bids are low. Ethin just pushed the minimum bid up by 5000 bucks! Lol. Minimum $70000 for Dustin the Apple I anyone? Lol. All kidding aside, I do agree with you on that, Ethin. Typically the people who pull this stun are the ones that don't even research let alone try to make their own games. You bought the Mac, arguably the most developer-unfriendly platform out there so live with the reality. Voiceover isn't that special anymore because the very company that was at the forefront of first party screenreaders is now trailing behind Microsoft and Google. So you really don't have much to brag about by owning a mac nowadays. I'm not just saying this, I feel the same way. The 13inch Macbook pro2015 used to be an unregretted purchase, never mind the 120mb...I mean 128gb ssd. Now just to upgrade my ssd I'll have to pay 500 bucks (yes it's a Transend jetdrive I'll be buying for those curious) and with powerful storage comes a high price. We hardly have this kind of money to throw around so as a developer, they too don't have the money to spend on a few macs to test their games on!

2018-06-22 23:26:33 (edited by jack 2018-06-22 23:29:47)

On the topic of GTA sounds. Either the game is compressed, or the sound support on the mac isn't that great. Although I ran the game distribution on a regular windows machine and it really wasn't that much different. Something tells me they might've compressed it a bit, but it's still around 5gb. I doubt Apple really has a space limitation for the app store, but if they do that would be the most ridiculously hypocritical thing they could do, considering their developer sdk is 11gb. Don't ever buy a 128gb mac if you wanna be a developer...oh wait you might have no choice if you're gonna max out with 8gb ram.

2018-06-22 23:46:43 (edited by jack 2018-06-22 23:48:06)

Plus Erick, how can you call yourself a gamer without hating the mac at least a bit. Ok, maybe a casual gamer from the sound of it, and a lot of folks are anyway so there isn't anything wrong with that. But it is the machine that demotivates custom-build market so much it's not even funny. You get a custom-build and can enjoy mac OSX in a hackintosh while it's still intel-based, because Apple is going to make future builds based off of their own chipset because they hate outside parties it seems. Frivolous lawsuits against Qualcom, yeah a few royalties not paid but cry me a river...stop selling $350 homepods and $1200 generation x-ish iphones and you might not be out as much. INtel, I wouldn't say they hate intel, after all it may seem like an amicable departure but the long and short of it is that they now want control over the mac down to the very last thing they can control. Where was I? Oh yeah, this means you can't, uh, virtualize the mac once they make the switch? So there. If you're a gamer you either love custom builds or you just love a lot of system resources if you're serious about getting a killer gaming machine. This whole death of Mac OSX innovation is for another topic though unless someone takes the discussion further. Lol.
No wonder Apple Maps went down, it's not like they had a sense of direction anyway. Lol! And this is sadly so far gone from what Jobs would've wanted. Speaking of which, where the hell is our open source Facetime, damn it! Lol.

2018-06-22 23:49:12

Hi again.

I do understand that many games are for mac, but what I'm also trying to say is that some of those interactive fiction games are not that great compared to audiogames.

I do not like games without sound, and I also have a friend who don't like games without sound.

And yes, their are some games for iOS but all we see is just card games and only 1FPS game. Yes I might develop a game but will have to save up for it because I might need more then one developer to get my ideas out. So yes I will make a game but for now we just need to see more action games for iOS, and maybe mac.

I've tried wine, oh yes I have. But I don't really care for it at all because some of the games don't really work. I use VMWARe fusion. And I did buy it, the pro version. So for now I will be sticking to VMware fusion. No complaints here. Was just giving a statement that their needs to be more good games such as action for iOS and maybe the mac. Look at the Blind swordsman, they created it for windows. They also created it for iOS and now they have it for mac. The iOS version I'm not sure where it is, but I don't really care about that game, either. 10levels. Survival mode is good but... really!!!

Oh, and A Blind legend. That game is so good, until you get to the ending. Otherwise it's,, well, okay. Yes I do like A Blind legend, but I was hoping for extra content. I guess they didn't wanna create more extra content, don't really care anyway. At least it's good.

2018-06-22 23:51:33

Yes I am a gamer but I really love the mac.

2018-06-23 00:05:18

Ok, so here we go again with the cardgame discussion. Ok, you don't like text games, sure, that's fine. Other people do though, so maybe *they aren't good* is not the right thing to say in this case.

2018-06-23 00:15:22

ugh, just ugh.

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