2018-06-05 02:29:31

With the CVAA law coming into effect in Jan. of this coming year.
I thought this would be a good time and a good topic to talk about.
Do you think or feel that developers of video games should add accessibility for gamers who are blind?
Personally I think that it is a great idea for developers of video games to add accessibility features.
Features such as text to speech to be able to navigate the different in game menus.
Rumble function to indicate different in game actions.
Audio panning so that someone who is blind will know what is going on in the game.
Audio cues to indicate different types of in game items.
I would like to hear your thoughts on this topic.
By the way let's be respectful with one another as we talk about this topic.

2018-06-05 03:54:20

A great idea, as you said in post 1, but not an ideal one.  the market for accessibility amongst mainstream gamers just doesn't exist.  We make a minority no matter how many of us there are, and accessibility features thus far have done nothing to endear us to the sighted community.  I sincerely hope i can be proved wrong.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2018-06-05 04:14:50

As long as its something we turn on and isn't on by default, then yes, but keep in mind that every studio will not have the budget to implement the same kinds of features as other larger ones. There will be a lot of push back from sighted gamers, though probably short-lived,and there will be an equally positive movement from players who think its cool that accessibility is a thing, maybe they have a family member or friend with a disability, and they think its cool that the publishers / studios are designing inclusively. Just remember that when you stick your head out, expect violent reactions, at least at first, though most of it would be targeted at the studio.

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2018-06-05 04:32:29

I have had different ones mention to me that if developers was to add accessibility features in a pre existing games it would be more difficult to add then what it would be if adding from the beginning of development of a game.
I believe that there should be an option to enable and disable the features.
Something that would be cool is if we could have some kind of contact with the different video games company to work with them on accessibility features.

2018-06-05 07:11:01

@4, those developers who you spoke to and who told you that are very much correct. It is incredibly hard to add accessibility to something that is already released to the public and/or that is already fully developed than it is to start from the beginning. Its equivalent to you attempting to, for example, completely rewire your house, or reinstall the plumbing of that house (or something equally as foundationally dangerous) to that house rather than just building your house from scratch. In that sense the same can be taken to development of a game: you have to completely rewrite the parts you want accessibility in to have accessibility, and when it comes to things like graphics, that can be incredibly difficult, if not outright impossible. And while it would be awesome to talk to the studios themselves, we must also keep in mind to talk to the publishers too, because they call the shots. (Of course, that doesn't apply if the studio is a publisher itself, like EA is.)

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2018-06-05 09:27:52

Another source of push back from the mainstream companies is going to be due to anti-cheating/anti-botting efforts being destroyed with the addition of accessibility controls.  In many games, automated bots plague the communities as ways to do everything from aim perfectly each time you fire, to harvesting resources while you sleep.  The single biggest defense these games use are controls that are difficult to be automated.  The same features that make a game inaccessible are the same features that make games either inaccessible, or at least very limited for bots.  Giving access to the very small number of blind gamers will also open the gates for cheating bots.  I can see many gaming communities being quite pissed about that, and possibly shifting the blame on the minority group that pushed to have such policies put into place.

In my youth, when I used to make many of these types of bots for the fun/challenge of it, I can think of several times I used a game's high contrast mode to make a cheat work, or accessible keyboard shortcuts that were added to help those unable to easily use a mouse.  smile

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2018-06-05 12:34:44

Simple answer; yes.

Something like text to speech for menus SHOULD be very quick and easy, as it SHOULD be taken care of at engine level. Unfortunately it isn't currently taken care of at engine level, but I'd hope that once developers start getting their head around text to speech properly that they'll start putting pressure on the engines to did it once and for all instead of every studio having to do their own implementation.

As far as gameplay goes the easiest sell is accessibility features that benefit all players. The work done on Killer Instinct is a wonderful example of that, with blind accessibility considerations such as ensuring that every sound is unique and adding in an extra volume slider to be able to adjust the volume of HUD sounds just make the game better for everyone.

There will of course be studios who want to go the extra mile and dedicate resources to features that are solely for blind gamers. But it's worth remembering that blindness doesn't exist in a vacuum, it can be difficult enough to try to get resources for barriers relating to much more common conditions such as colorblindness or hearing loss, so any opportunity that can be done to do things easily add cheaply and to benefit all players is really valuable.

There are lots of quick wins and low hanging fruit available, go for them first.

2018-06-05 12:39:25 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2018-06-05 12:40:43)

Ironcross32 -

"There will be a lot of push back from sighted gamers, though probably short-lived,and there will be an equally positive movement from players who think its cool that accessibility is a thing"

Depends what stage you're talking about. If it's at the point of people with disabilities (blindness or anything else) talking about accessibility issues they encounter and how they could be solved, then yep... Pushback is ever decreasing, but it still exists.

But at the stage of finished features being launched, there's close to no pushback, it's usually almost universally "players who think it's cool that accessibility is a thing". Not necessarily people with disabled relatives either, often just people who really love the game they are playing and are excited that more people are now going to get to experience it too. Seen it time and again, covering accessibility for all kinds of conditions but including blind accessibility in Injustice, Killer Instinct, and Madden.

Which does help to give a little faith in humanity smile

2018-06-05 13:24:09

In a word, absolutely! But it should always be an option that can be disabled, sighted players won't need or want them, so why force it on them. Also, it shouldn't be just one control that turns  on or off everything, different people have different levels of blindness, or a single person might be experiencing progressive vision loss. The totally blind will need or want most of the accessibility options, but someone who is only partially blind might want only a few.

2018-06-05 20:50:25

I don’t think that the older games will add any accessibility features, since the problems related with them already covered in the topic earlier. I also think that they should be enabled by the gamers themselves, that way; the sighted players will not be inconvenienced. It would be kind of like Narrator in windows, or talkback in android.

But the reading menus with screen reader can be quite helpful. I can say that since I am completely blind gamer, who has no vision at all. It is quite annoying for me to depend upon sighted people for such information.

But let’s say, the audio cues are added in the game, the menus and all the text options can be read by the screen reader. It can make fighting games more accessible, (they are already my favorite genre of games,) and also the tactical, and turned base games.

But how would the developers work with open world games?

They will have to design different cues for characters standing, walls, objects and such. Exactly like manamon. (Also, it will increase the time and budget for the development of the game as well.)

But we have to also understand that most of these things can be done on only with a game, which is being released for PC.

Since I haven’t heard about any screen reader which works with gaming console… the pokémon series still will be out of my reach.

The last one is just one of my feelings.

2018-06-05 20:51:18

@6, I know. I'd advocate for the keeping of controls as they are; most games these days allow you to either modify the button mapping or alter it to another preset one that suits you more comfortably. Keeping cheat bots out is practically a top priority, far more so than accessibility is simply because cheat bots are far more destructive to the game than accessibility could ever be. Granted, overdoing accessibility can certainly destroy a gameplay experience but cheat bots have this bad habit of utterly annihilating a player base for a game and thereby making it completely hopeless for continuation.
@7-8, for the engine-level accessibility, do keep in mind that most mainstream games choose to use in-house game engines, so adding that kind of accessibility would definitely be possible, though I hope its togglable -- I'd hate to have it always on, always off, etc. There also, like 9 said, needs to be a loooooooooot of accessibility controls so we can configure it to our liking. I have been in discussion with several developers of the Godot game engine though to see if we can make the editor accessible, and while I never started the thread I definitely jumped on-board and gave my input. Last I heard someone was going to see about either making accessibility with the editor through the scripting language they have, GDScript, or by using a headless editor so you can do pretty much everything from the command-line. (I suggested making the editor GUI directly through the C++ code itself, but none of us really wanted to go through all that code considering how complex the editor is.) I'll probably go and get the ball rolling for UE4 and accessibility; hopefully I can establish something like what Godot is doing where they either use an integrated scripting language or interface instead of having to completely rewrite half the editor.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
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2018-06-05 21:24:10

Hey, Dark Eagle.
The Xbox one has a built in screen reader that reads all of the menus on the system including the Microsoft store.
The only thing that it does not read is in game menus.

2018-06-05 21:25:13

How about an option on the last screen of the installer that asks if you want the accessibility options turned on, as well as a hot key in the game to toggle them on and off.

The big challenge will be to come up with a hot key everyone can agree upon, otherwise each developer will end up choosing something different.

Just look at Windows and MacOS, I'll bet that just like Windows, MacOS has a hot key to turn on its screen reader, and I'll bet the hot key Apple chose is nowhere even close to similar to what Microsoft chose.

2018-06-05 22:32:08

Hello,
Maybe for windows the hotkey can be an interesting one such as ctrl+alt+insert.

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2018-06-05 23:36:24

@Cyco:

thanks for informing me about that, since I do not have a xbox, I was not aware of such information.

@Orko:

I really like your idea. let's say, a checkbox for installing or enabling the accessibility features.

2018-06-06 00:22:34

@11 no, most mainstream developers do not use their own bespoke engine.

According to Statista for UK devs it's 62% unity, 47% bespoke, 12% unreal (some overlap).

2018-06-07 03:24:34

Hello everyone, karate25 here. In answer to the question yes. An imphatic yes for consoles as well as pc games. I think it's long overdo and I think that even though we're a minority as some have stated and a fact that I completely agree with and fully accept, I believe also that the pushback will become less and less as the sighted community grows more and more accustomed to seeing totally blind gamers inside of their virtual worlds playing alongside them. They'll start to think nothing more of us being there than one of their friends or relatives. This is so exciting but again I know that it'll take time. But it sounds as though the laws comeing into effect will make it easier.

2018-06-07 04:13:04

@ianhamilton_, that does not make my point irrelevant. While most may be reduced to some, companies sometimes still do use they're own game engines for one reason or another.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-06-07 04:38:09

I am glad to see all the responses that this thread is getting.
It is always wonderful to get different points of view on things like this.

2018-06-07 05:44:24

One major problem I see with getting accessibility into engines themselves are engines like Unity where they're closed-source. In such an engine us getting that would be impossible (history has shown us that doing this is, without a doubt, a definite impossibility -- Unity just won't listen to us -- see https://feedback.unity3d.com/suggestion … sibility). And, before someone brings up any laws like the CVAA, I doubt Unity will listen to that. They'll most likely need to be forced and strongarmed into doing it, and even then they'll make it as sucky as possible.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-06-07 09:59:30

I've been seeing a lot of stuff over twitter over the past few days, and here's a question I have. How much is too much. What I mean by that is how much can you really alter the game and its still the same underlying game with the same relative level of difficulty. You can change button configs, OK that's been in games for years and years now, but accessibility features that do more than switch to a grayscale mode, or a high contrast one, change UI scaling to make text easier to read, etc. So where is the point where accessibility features start to come into play that make games easier. In my opinion, they already are too easy. You get these games that have tutorials that hold your hand at first, then you already know what to do. Also, this concept of if you fail a mission so many times, you can say OK, make it easier, or just pass me on which I kind of have mixed opinions on. On one hand, I don't like it because it just means you can beat the game with a minimum of effort, on the other, think if you paid $60 for a top tier game and you literally can't get past a certain spot, kind of sucks if you literally can't play any further, and that may or may not have to do with accessibility. For instance, some people just might not possess the coordination, even though they don't have a disability.

Already, we're seeing things that bypass quicktime events, rather than trying to find a way to work inside the system and be able to still experience that part of the game. Also, let's say a particular game is sort of a button masher, and someone comes along and says, I can't press the buttons that fast, I have X that is preventing me from doing it. OK, so they turn on this mode that the developers included that means you can either hold a button down, or use a mod layer, like you press one button or press and hold one button while you press another to do this type of action. Now, someone with no disabilities can find this in the settings, and be like oh hey nice, and well, if they do it on their own time, who cares, they bought the game, and they should be able to play it how they like. It's not something I would necessarily agree with, but its their game, their time, their business, and they can play it how they like. But, a lot of games have online modes, if not exclusively online, or primarily so, with maybe a single player story that's sort of secondary. Now we have issues. Let's say Jenny has cerebral palsy, and needs controller accommodations to  play whatever online game. It makes things on a level that she can cope with due to limited dexterity or mobility or motor control. Sam, Jenny's 11 year old cousin sees her playing and knows this game, and realizes she's playing it differently. He knows when he plays this game there's a lot more going on a lot quicker. He wonders why Jenny's doing so well but doesn't really seem to be playing as furiously as he has to in order to play at the same level. He finds out (either by asking his older cousin, or just by exploring the menus of the game) about these accessibility options, turns them on, now Sam, an 11 year old able-bodied boy is playing the game online even though he doesn't need the accommodations.  What's more, because he doesn't need the accommodations, he actually is doing better than most other people on the game because he has normal dexterity, mobility, and motor control, so he can be ready. Sure, its weird to get used to at first, because you're not hitting buttons rapidly, but he eventually figures out a system.

Now, how is this to be dealt with, and I know it seems a little further down the road, but I tend to look for problems that are a little further down the road since that gives adequate time to come up with a solution. To me, Sam is cheating, even though he's not using mods or hacks, or external programs that allow you to inject code or data into memory, etc. But how would they ever detect this type of thing? DO you see where I"m headed with this, if the publishers ban someone, and say they were cheating, how will they know for sure. If they mistakenly do this, and it gets out that they banned someone who had a disability for using the accessibility features of the game, there will be a huge backlash against that developer / publisher. The media will have a field day about it. But, the people in charge need to make sure that people are playing fairly, so how do they do that?

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2018-06-07 17:03:55

Ironcross, I completely agree with your Sam and Jenny example.  That will happen, and it would start happening from day 1.  Fully sighted players will undoubtedly start using whatever accessibility features give them an edge.  Back in the early 2000s, I remember it being popular for players to enable very high contrast graphics when playing first person shooters in multiplayer.  Obviously those settings were not intended for players with "normal" vision, but it allowed you to spot a hiding sniper from halfway across the map.  I remember modded texture packs being passed around that took that idea and pushed it even more by adjusting the texture graphics themselves and making those even more contrasted.

Games eventually had to start trying to detect players using modified texture packs, and they could leave out some of the graphical settings to limit this exploit.  If we look at this as a required accessibility feature, they wouldn't have had either option.  If these features (essentially exploits) had been permanently left in these games, eventually all serious/competitive players would be using them just to give themselves an equal chance.  Once that happens, players who originally needed those accessibility features are now just as far from an even playing field as they were when none of those accessibility features existed.  Assuming they are forced to, the developers would then have to come up with some new way to give them a boost in the game to let them compete against the new generation of sighted gamers that could see and shoot halfway across the map.  Whatever they come up with will also start being used by the fully sighted players and the cycle continues.

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2018-06-07 19:28:19

Post 21, I fully agree with, and post 22 also has a really good example, and its one reason Danny and I are pretty much against game accessibility in mainstream titles (people will find a way to seriously abuse it). Now I'm just resigned to it, I've tried making my points and no one listens. tongue We could do medical checks of everyone who plays but that would take way, way too long. We can't really send option sets over the network for the publisher to see so that they can do the medical checks either, again that would take way too long. I personally can't think of any solution to this. Which is why, in a sense, while I think it would be cool, I just see no way of ensuring that only disabled people use it, which is why I'm against it.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-06-07 20:34:08

I'm against some of it. But the rumbles that Madden uses to let you know when the kick meter is up, etc. I don't know how it works because I don't have the game, but I read the info about it, that kinda stuff, I don't see how having that being used by a sighted person is going to significantly boost their abilities. They could use very short audio cues for QTE's, and again, having that on I don't see how it will boost someone's ability, especially since sighted people seem to be so reliant on their vision, having audio will just confuse them more, but you could assign a tone to each button that you plan to use, and blip it at the appropriate times. A lot of them do not put the entire sequence up on screen at once, because partially, the character's actions change depending on if you get it right or not ,so let's say (and I'm using an Xbox controller layout for this example) the sequence in full is A, X, Y, Y, Y, LB, A, B, A. You usually don't see that on screen all at once, you generally see your char doing something if you fail, he like stumbles whatever, so you see one button at a time. There would be an audio cue for each of those buttons, and one if its required that you rapidly tap until the next one comes up. The only example I can come up with at the top of my head right now is the original Mercenaries, when you would try to hijack a tank with an enemy inside it. It was awesome if you succeeded, because you'd climb up there, open the hatch, chuck a grenade in there, wait for it to go off then jump down inside. If you got it wrong, you'd usually end up falling off the tank and you'd be stunned for a second or two as you get to your feet. QTE's usually give you a certain chance to get it right, its not like boppit in that one wrong action and you're done. They also have to compensate for human reaction time, especially if you go from a tap button as fast as you can to normal sequences again, there needs to be some wiggle room so you can stop tapping and hit the button, so a fudge factor where wrong input isn't counted against you for say, 300ms or so.

You also don't really see QTE's in multiplayer, at least, I never have, doesn't mean there aren't any, but in general I can see where a few tweaks here and there wouldn't hurt.

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2018-06-08 01:12:29

Hmmm.
The same can be put with the old code injection style readers use, graphics intercepts and all the extra accessibility things we use there is always a caviat it doesn't matter what it is but there will be drawbacks to everything.
Sadly the easiest way to handle it is get rid of the issue all together.
Sadly that means the disabled person suffers on the other side with all the data breaches and the like its a tough nut.
Comprimises need to be made but what and where and how is the question.