2018-05-22 04:41:48

Has anyone else experienced this issue? The -no-dwrite command line tag no longer works when added to the steam shortcut, or at least doesn't sem to.
Has anybody found a way around this? Or are we pretty much SOL.
Thanks.

"You know nothing of death... allow me to teach you!" Dreadlich Tamsin
Download the latest version of my Bokura no Daibouken 3 guide here.

2018-05-22 04:47:15

doesn't work anymore I think, I ran into this too.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-05-22 04:55:40 (edited by Ethin 2018-05-22 04:56:08)

It works fine for me. At least, nothing has changed.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-05-22 05:04:14

Hello folks. Yes, it is working fine for me. The only change I noticed is that I must use OCR to navigate around.
Best regards, Haramir.

The true blind is the one who refuses to see.

2018-05-22 07:12:06

Yeah, OCR still works... but for whatever reason I can't use review cursor nav with NVDA any more. Which was the whole reason for no-dwrite in the first place, as far as I know.

"You know nothing of death... allow me to teach you!" Dreadlich Tamsin
Download the latest version of my Bokura no Daibouken 3 guide here.

2018-05-22 07:25:44

same, for me, oCR works, but review cursor does not. This causes issues. I already have my steam configured in the most unfuckified format, which is list. The others are ridiculous and you don't want them, because they'll either display info in a grid, or like a table with game title and info at the left, and a separate pane with graphics and more info to the right. Those make navigating a nightmare. Even with list though I have to fight with it with OCR, because it will want to show parts of the left column, the title, and then parts of the right column, which has a cloud graphic for those games that use cloud sync for storing save data and the status, like installed, downloading, not installed, etc. So its more a sort of up and down the field trying to hit the right game. Fucking PITA!

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-05-22 10:44:14

I've had this issue for a while now.  Wonder why it stopped working (i.e. whether it was something in the latest Windows update) or something on the Steam end of things?

Regards,
Sightless Kombat.
***If you wish to refer to me in @replies, use Sightless***

2018-05-22 11:45:47

This problem is fixable.

You need to go to Steam options and change the font scaling option to default, and then you can change the no direct write switch in the same place.

Actually, if you already have the command in your Steam properties for the desktop icon, once Steam restarts after changing that option, your review curser should work.

HTH.

2018-05-22 14:40:06

silly question, how do we get to the options and change it if we can't use the review cursor?

2018-05-22 17:06:11

It's doable, its just gonna suck majorly.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-05-22 21:55:55

and this is why we have google, https://www.maketecheasier.com/change-steams-font/

2018-05-22 22:17:48

@11
This is useful to know, however the option that Post 8 refers to doesn't seem to exist in this file, unless it's just really difficult to find and I've missed it completely.

Any help on this is appreciated.

Regards,
Sightless Kombat.
***If you wish to refer to me in @replies, use Sightless***

2018-05-23 02:40:00 (edited by austingrace 2018-05-24 01:26:05)

Here is my question. What the heck is the problem with the Valve corporation and why don't they just make their crap accessible already????? I'm not a programmer but come on folks. You would have figured by now they would have gotten their act together. I do use steam because it is one of the few gaming stores available. I do work around the accessibility issues. It is a bit of set up in the beginning but it is doable.

2018-05-23 03:05:39

@13, that is the exact attitude that makes the sited community dislike, if not outright hate, blind people; this attitude of "company's must make their products accessible or else" and other nonsense. No company has to make anything -- yes, anything -- accessible unless required by law, such as if the product is for employment, education, a public service (i.e. road signs), etc. A consumer product, like Steam or the microwave in your house, does not need to be made accessible. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. The reason Steam doesn't do that is for the simple reason of profit. We pose no true benefit to them, so they see no reason to do it. It would gain them nothing. And before you say that we're a large amount of people, keep in mind that we're only about 40-thousand something people, if not slightly less. 40-thousand something people is pretty much no profit for them. Please get rid of that outrageously dumb attitude about how *everything under the sun* should be accessible or you won't use it. Its extremely stupid and (I'd even say) quite immature.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-05-24 01:23:04 (edited by austingrace 2018-05-24 01:24:22)

I'm just being honest with my last post. I'm sure multiple people have contacted them on this issue myself included. I have even offered to help them test their app and give feedback. I do use the steam  app BTW. I always like to work around things and not use accessibility as an excuse.

2018-05-24 01:31:26

@15, I get that. But the way you all who have "contacted" them on this issue is only making the problem worse. You don't demand accessibility, just like you don't demand for a 250000-dollar car, or a 500000-dollar luxury mansion. You ask for it. And for vehicles and homes, you buy them. But when it comes to accessibility, you never demand shit. Never. Not even in "extenuating circumstances". You ask for it. And if you don't get it? Too bad, deal with it. You don't like that? Tough, its life. Blind organizations have this habit of demanding everything when it comes to blind people. And since organizations like the NfB are supposed to "represent the blind community as a hole," it gives the entire community a bad light. IMO the NFB should be shut down, if not completely rebuilt from the ground up by honorable and trustworthy individuals who actually know how to play the game known as life rather than acting like arrogant pricks. But that's not the point I'm trying to make here. I get that you were being honest, I really do, but don't demand anything when you contact a business. Never. Its rude, its disrespectful, and it makes you look stupid. If you want a business to do something for you, you ask for it, kindly and (possibly) professionally. I say "professionally" because you will earn far more respect from the people running that business if you ask things professionally than if you hadn't. And its been clear for years now that valve doesn't care about accessibility at the moment, and no disabilities act or law is going to help you in this. They've made their decision, now you deal with it. If they want to add accessibility, they'll add accessibility on their own terms. If they want blind people to test accessibility for their products, it'll most likely be them who sends out the feelers, not you.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-05-24 02:39:00

I did some googling of my own yesterday in an attempt to find out more info, all I could find though were a few registry keys that didn't seem to be related, and the steam config files which are spread across way too many places. Although if someone with more technical knowledge than I wants to look through those, the files are in steam\userdata\config and steam\config.

"You know nothing of death... allow me to teach you!" Dreadlich Tamsin
Download the latest version of my Bokura no Daibouken 3 guide here.

2018-05-24 02:44:11

I... would not mess with those manually. I just had a brief skim and it seems like the files are very dependent on a looooooooooooooooooot of factors. And that all the data is in the cloud, or so it seems.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-05-27 15:31:10

hi, can someone help with the steam problem? what must i change in the steam.styles file?
thanks

2018-05-27 16:18:14 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2018-05-27 16:50:22)

@14 etc it is legally required. The steam client contains communications functionality. under legislation called CVAA it is a legal requirement for that communications functionality and any interface used to navigate to or operate that functionality to be accessible to people with no vision at all. Steam is bound by exactly the same laws and requirements as an Xbox, a PlayStation or an iPhone, meaning the compliance deadline for it to be accessible was October 2015. That's following a five year period to implement it, the law was signed in in 2010. Products launched prior to Oct 2015 are exempt, unless they've had significant updates since, which steam has.

Games themselves are covered too. The compliance deadline for in-game communications functionality and any UI used to navigate to or operate it is any game launched or significantly updated after Jan 1st 2019.

2018-05-27 16:45:20

Steam's been around for a good long time, way before 2015, so they're counting on that exemption, or more likely, just don't give a damn.

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2018-05-27 16:50:44 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2018-05-27 16:54:20)

"Products launched prior to Oct 2015 are exempt, unless they've had significant updates since, which steam has."

The point is that Austingrace is not in the wrong by demanding that someone stops breaking the law. Your legally protected human rights being infringed isn't something that you should have to ask politely for and then if nothing happens just accept it.

2018-05-27 17:56:18 (edited by Ethin 2018-05-27 19:04:18)

@ianhamilton_, I appreciate your research. However, that doesn't exactly do much, does it? Nope. I've checked this law for myself (https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/21 … y-act-cvaa) and it says nothing about private consumer products (a.k.a. steam). Plus, Steam is a gaming platform, not just a communications protocol. Valve therefore is exempt from this law. I've also found this (https://www.fcc.gov/general/advanced-co … nu-block-4) and this (https://www.fcc.gov/general/twenty-firs … lity-act-0). Clearly, if Valve has not made their product accessible, then clearly either they are exempt from this bill or they fall under a completely different title. So, clearly, you are incorrect.
Also, I've just read the bill -- specifically SEC. 104, and section 716 is added in that bill of 47 U.S.C. 601 et seq., and section (a)(1), says:

(1) In general- With respect to equipment manufactured after the effective date of the regulations established pursuant to subsection (e), and subject to those regulations, a manufacturer of equipment used for advanced communications services, including end user equipment, network equipment, and software, shall ensure that the equipment and software that such manufacturer offers for sale or otherwise distributes in interstate commerce shall be accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities, unless the requirements of this subsection are not achievable.

Additionally, it continues:

(b) Service Providers-
(1) In general- With respect to services provided after the effective date of the regulations established pursuant to subsection (e), and subject to those regulations, a provider of advanced communications services shall ensure that such services offered by such provider in or affecting interstate commerce are accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities, unless the requirements of this subsection are not achievable.
(2) Industry flexibility- A provider of services may satisfy the requirements of paragraph (1) with respect to such services by--
(A) ensuring that the services that such provider offers are accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities without the use of third party applications, peripheral devices, software, hardware, or customer premises equipment; or
(B) if such provider chooses, using third party applications, peripheral devices, software, hardware, or customer premises equipment that is available to the consumer at nominal cost and that individuals with disabilities can access.
(c) Compatibility- Whenever the requirements of subsections (a) or (b) are not achievable, a manufacturer or provider shall ensure that its equipment or service is compatible with existing peripheral devices or specialized customer premises equipment commonly used by individuals with disabilities to achieve access, unless the requirement of this subsection is not achievable.
(d) Network Features, Functions, and Capabilities- Each provider of advanced communications services has the duty not to install network features, functions, or capabilities that impede accessibility or usability.

So, in summary:

  • A company must make their service or manufacturing system accessible unless they are not able to do so.

  • They must not install any Network Features, Functions, and Capabilities to impede accessibility.

  • If subsections (a) or (b) are not achievable, that company shall ensure that the product remains accessible with existing technologies.

It also goes on to say this, which utterly and completely annihilates your argument:

(g) Achievable Defined- For purposes of this section and section 718, the term achievable' means with reasonable effort or expense, as determined by the Commission. In determining whether the requirements of a provision are achievable, the Commission shall consider the following factors:
(1) The nature and cost of the steps needed to meet the requirements of this section with respect to the specific equipment or service in question.
(2) The technical and economic impact on the operation of the manufacturer or provider and on the operation of the specific equipment or service in question, including on the development and deployment of new communications technologies.
(3) The type of operations of the manufacturer or provider.
(4) The extent to which the service provider or manufacturer in question offers accessible services or equipment containing varying degrees of functionality and features, and offered at differing price points.
(h) Commission Flexibility-
(1) Waiver- The Commission shall have the authority, on its own motion or in response to a petition by a manufacturer or provider of advanced communications services or any interested party, to waive the requirements of this section for any feature or function of equipment used to provide or access advanced communications services, or for any class of such equipment, for any provider of advanced communications services, or for any class of such services, that--
(A) is capable of accessing an advanced communications service; and
(B) is designed for multiple purposes, but is designed primarily for purposes other than using advanced communications services.
(2) Small entity exemption- The Commission may exempt small entities from the requirements of this section.
(i) Customized Equipment or Services- The provisions of this section shall not apply to customized equipment or services that are not offered directly to the public, or to such classes of users as to be effectively available directly to the public, regardless of the facilities used.
(j) Rule of Construction- This section shall not be construed to require a manufacturer of equipment used for advanced communications or a provider of advanced communications services to make every feature and function of every device or service accessible for every disability.

I think that's very self-explanatory, don't you think?
Therefore, considering what I've said above, Valve may not be able to follow this act because their UI libraries do not allow it, and said UI libraries may not be under their control. Clearly you have not read the law in full -- please see https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments … 3939A1.doc for details. Also, might I remind you that OCR, in any of its forms, is technology that people with disabilities use to access inaccessible software and, therefore, follows this law correctly? It may not be the perfect solution by any means -- I agree with that -- but it works, nevertheless. Please do your research before making bold claims that Valve Corporation "must do something."

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github

2018-05-27 20:47:56 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2018-05-27 20:53:46)

Ethin I'm not quoting research I just did. I'm pretty intimately familiar with CVAA already, I don't need to go give the full text yet another read, I've done that enough already over the past five years or so.

You've really got the wrong end of the stick here I'm several ways. Such us understandable enough on your first read-through, it is some pretty heavy going stuff.

CVAA explicitly applies to the games industry. It divides the games industry into three buckets; consoles, gameplay and distribution networks, and games software.

Because none of those three are primarily about communication, the FCC is able to, at it's own discretion, grant temporary waivers instead of them all having to be compliant in 2012 like most industries were.

The waivers for consoles and networks expired in October 2015. The waiver for games expires on December 31st 2018. Google ”CVAA games waiver" for more info.

Steam is a gameplay and distribution network. Therefore its waiver expired in 2015.

No one has the ability to excuse themselves on the basis of it not being achievable. How it works is that you build a case for inachievability, which is based primarily on affordability (and obviously cost to implement Vs Valve's bank balance is pretty cut and dry - https://www.pcgamer.com/market-data-fir … st-year/), and then submits that request to the FCC. It is then the FCC, not the service provider, who decides if it is achievable. You can see that in what you pasted to me - "as determinable by the commission". "The commission" refers to the FCC, the federal communications commission.

A strong factor in the FCC's decision making is whether anyone else has already done it. No one can argue to the FCC that making windows software accessible is inachievable, because many others have already done it. As of course steam had more than enough money to be able to do it, even a ground up rewrite of their UI would be a tiny drop in the ocean of Valve's finances.

So no, OCR does not cover it, because they're pretty solutions only kick in if the inachievability criteria is satisfied.

I sent you a link in the EA thread to the talk by Karen Peltz Strauss. Watching that talk will inform you about how it relates to Steam too.

2018-05-27 21:51:13

@24, you've got it the wrong way. It may be the FCC that is the final arbiter about what is achievable and what is not on the legal end of things, but it is the company who is the arbiter of what is achievable and what is not on the "real" side of things. If Valve really wanted to, do you really think this law would stand a chance if the lobbied hard enough -- which they most certainly will, if pressured -- to get it repealed? The one thing that you seem to have forgotten is what I stated in post 14: that Valve only cares about money. the more money they have, all the better for them. And they'll do it any way they can, even if that means violating a few laws here and there to get what they want. Its called this little thing known as bribery, something that our federal government has been filled with since almost its inception. You pay someone enough money and they'll keep their silence. How do you think Valve has not managed to be pegged by the FCC for violating this law already? Loopholes. They've taken advantage of, and will continue to take advantage of, every single loophole possible. And if they must, they will get this law removed. You may have been in the industry for 10 years. But have you actually developed true games with a massive corporation like Valve or Gearbox? If you have, then you clearly know that, if these company's and publishers wanted to, this law would *not* stand a chance.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.
My Github