2017-11-19 16:20:58

So lets have a good debate. For many years persons in the blind world say that Uber is such a bad company for not accepting service animal X Y or Z. First of all I would like to point out that Uber is not a taxi service it is a tech company with a app. So my question is why do so many blind people complain. I would agree that this type of wining is really hurting us as a whole. I agree that Uber can deny service anyone it so chooses because it is a private company rather than a public one. But because a few blind persons complained I think this is going to say to Uber drivers that I shouldn't pick up blind people no matter what. So I ask this constant threat of suing over this and that because it some how doesn't fit the ADA I ask is this really doing good for us or is it hurting us. And then I would ask to look at the backgrounds of the people that are screaming the loudest. Were they in blind schools there entire lives and not exposed to many sighted peers? Lets have a good debate and not a flame war.

Bitcoin Address:
1MeNca7h6m8du4TV3psN4m4X666p6Y36u5m

2017-11-19 16:45:22

Y'know, I'm not an expert here, but for someone who's trying to avoid a flame war you're doing a mighty fine job of starting one.

That having been said, the answer to your question boils down to this. Refusing to serve a person with a disability is discrimination. Discrimination is illegal. Therefore, refusing to serve a person with a disability is illegal. If you don't want to serve people with disabilities, then please to be getting out of the customer service business. I don't care if you're a restaurant, a grocery store, a taxi company or a tech company with an app. There is a customer service aspect to your business, therefore, the rules of customer service apply. Those rules include not being a prick to people with disabilities. It really is that simple.

2017-11-19 17:26:05 (edited by Orko 2017-11-19 18:03:22)

One reason why I don't use Uber is because before they got a license to operate in a local county, they told their drivers to work anyway and if they got cited the company would pay the fine for them. Besides not being a proper, much less legal, way to run a business, the citation doesn't show up on the company's record but shows up on the driver's record instead and the driver is never compensated for taking the hit.

There is also the problem of their corporate culture of sexual harassment against women in the work place as well as reports of the work place being generally hostile towards women. I'm not going to encourage such bad behavior by using their service.

And then there's the issue of drivers refusing to accept blind passengers with a service animal. Regardless of whether the blind customer complains or not, it's just plain wrong and damned inconvenient to have to find a driver who will take you.

And finally there are all the reports of rides gone horribly wrong. Like the driver that decided to start shooting people as he made his Uber rounds, or the driver that did personal errands while transporting a passenger, the passenger eeventually got out of the car when the driver stopped for a traffic light and even though they never got to their destination via Uber they were charged for the ride anyway. Now just imagine being a blind person in that situation.

Uber says they do background checks before accepting a driver, but with all those reports of problem drivers, one has to wonder about the truthfulness of that statement.

Thanks, but no thanks, I'll stick to using taxis. Except for one driver who took a personal call while transporting me and ended up missing turns by several miles and then charged me for the extra mileage, I've had no real problems with them. They might cost more than Uber, but at the end of the day, when I get to where I want to go without any problems or worries, I consider it money well spent. And that distracted driver? He's no longer driving a taxi, he lost his taxi driver's license after I complained.

As far as I'm concerned, Uber has a very long way to go before they'll ever reach the level of trust taxis have already earned.

Why would this topic have to be a flame war? If every one who posts a message here simply says why they use or don't use Uber and respects every one else's choice, there shouldn't be a problem. And for those who insist on creating a problem, there's always the ban hammer.

2017-11-19 18:05:05

The problem with most of post 3 is it applies just as well to taxis as well. There's a reason there are cameras in most cabs, and it's not just for driver safety. Drivers are well known for inflating the prices they charge you by taking the longest route, knowing you pay more the longer it takes them to get you from A to B. Cab drivers are just as likely, if not more so, to refuse to pick up a disabled person with a service animal, and less likely to deal with the consequences of having done so. Cab drivers have been charged for assaulting passengers.

A noteable difference is you have the option, with Uber, of not getting the same driver again. I've called taxi companies and explicitly asked them not to send a particular driver. The very next time, I've gotten the exact same driver. I've called the city to report a driver for a number of offenses that the city has decided should provoke a removal of cab license. Drivers still have their license, and it gets swept under the rug. I used Uber before it was legal to do so in this city explicitly because I was tired of the taxi companies. I will probably use Lyft if it comes to this city for exactly the same reason. You could not pay me to get in the back of another cab so long as I have anything to say about it.

2017-11-19 18:59:05

I don't use Uber because I live in the boonies and there's nothing to do besides Wal-mart and occasionally the movies, and there are easier ways ATM. Also, all I hear about Uber is blind people on Twitter complaining, and Libertarians on Facebook and Reddit complaining about regulations. So it's not especially encouraging. This could change, of course. I maintain that the US are big enough that we could all have bubbles with very little overlap, so when I want to know what the situation is, I try to localize my research. Berkly isn't Memphis isn't Orlando isn't Cleveland isn't Ann Arbor, and within each of those cities are more bubbles that remain unaware of the bubbles within the same neighborhood. I'd go so far as to say that a huge number of online conflicts come from people in different bubbles failing to realize the extent of this.
But, eh, what do I know? I could be misled by my bubble.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2017-11-19 20:19:02

I have not had a bad Uber Experience yet. However I do not use a guide dog. I have had drivers that walked me to the door of my house, and some that just left me to figure it out on my own. I did not ask them to help me in both instances as I mostly use it to go home from somewhere and I know my street well. I've heard stories of my friends being refused Uber because of their guide dogs and that's just messed up! They have to take them and if they are unwilling too they should not be an Uber, Lyft, or cab drivers. So I wouldn't say that Uber is a bad company for not excepting guide dogs because you can report drivers that won't take you for that reason. It is more on a case by case service depending on if the driver is a dissent person. My question would be what happens if you report a driver for not taking you because you have a guide dog. Do they get a warning? How many warnings if at all do they get before being let go and if let go is it easy to just make another account under a fake name? I would hope not I'd hope that they would have to get some sort of background check or something.

Kingdom of Loathing name JB77

2017-11-19 22:32:46

Anybody can get on social media and say pretty much whatever they want regardless of whether the story they tell is true or not.

The news media, where I get my information about Uber from, at least tries to verify that the story is accurate before they broadcast it nationally or even locally.

When I see messages like #4 who claim to have had nothing but bad experiences with a service that I've had only one bad experience with, I have to wonder what the drivers on the receiving end of those negative remarks would say about the passenger making all those negative claims. You're right, there are cameras in cabs, and their not just for passenger safety either. just as there are bad drivers that shouldn't be driving, there are also equally bad passengers too.

I'm not suggesting that anyone here is a bad passenger, but to be fair, all we are getting here is one side of the story. I think it would be interesting to hear how much the picture changes when the other side of the story is told.

2017-11-20 00:48:07

I'm glad I don't have a guide dog and that I don't have to put up with this. I use Lyft because they are a lot more lenient than Uber. The Americans with Disabilities Act has a specific section for private entities as well as public ones. And I want to include everyone with disabilities, not just people who are blind. For example, Many Uber and Lyft drivers do not have wheelchair-accessible vehicles because they are a private company. Lyft does have an option for access in the settings menu I believe. I am not an attorney so I can't give egal advice, but what we have to consider here is petty complaints versus true discrimination.
Think about other minority groups complaining because they were denied access to use a store's gendered bathroom. Or not being allowed to enter a venue because os a person's race. That's why we have the civil rights movement protecting minority individuals from being denied access to both public and private entities.
So is it an entitlement issue that we have, or is it true discrimination? Will we ever be able to tolerate and have patience for the other side rather than pushing so much, even if we have a valid reason to insure that we get equal access like everybody else?

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2017-11-20 00:54:16

Hi,
I am not entirely sure of the reason for this, but from what I am hearing, Uber have recently had their license revoaked from London in the UK, and hearing about Uber not accepting guide dogs, also does not want make me want to use them, even though I don't have a guide dog. So, these two things have made me feel very much against Uber, and I would rather use a taxi. Luckily, where I live, there isn't much of a problem when it comes to longer vs shorter routes.

2017-11-20 01:17:58

I don't think I can live without Lyft. I found it to be a lot cheaper than a traditional taxi service. Before that, I relied on paratransit service because of my hearing loss, I cannot safely cross lighted intersections to use regular public transit. By utilising Uber or Lyft, I've been able to run errands any time I wanted to.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2017-11-20 05:36:34

The thing is Every time I ever used Uber in little rock I never had any problems with it. The drivers were nice and they even helped us out. I have never used lift so I don't know about them. But I don't think a place of work or even a ride sharing app should have to take you any ware just because there is something in the ADA. I my self am against the ADA because I feel it never goes far enough. It failed to educate the sighted world about the blind. And just because your a protected class of persons doesn't mean you should get special privileges. Now this entire thing was because maybe what 5 people got denied for service because of there dogs. But there also those persons who think everyone should have a dog and that guide dogs are the greatest thing sense sliced bread. I wouldn't  trust my life to a animal that sniffs its own butt. I feel that some blind people think there intitled to everything just because there blind. But I digress. I guess I don't like a lot of people in the blind world they seam like a bunch of snobs. But then just because you get denyed in one city doesn't mean your going to get denyed by every single driver in that city or any other city. Oh and yes I would really like to know how these blind people were treating the drivers. What if the driver could get sick do to dogs did the blind person ever think about that or did they just wine and pout. I'm not saying that every driver is bad but I guess your going to get something like that when you release things to the public.

Bitcoin Address:
1MeNca7h6m8du4TV3psN4m4X666p6Y36u5m

2017-11-20 07:11:17

If you are against the ADA, you should go more into detail about it. True, the NFB and Kennith Jernigan said that blindness itself was not a disability. It was an inconvenience, like being left-handed in a right-handed society. It was attitudes and perceptions about blindness that was a disability. And sighted people cover up their own disabilities because they are so light-dependent, as Michael Hingson once said.
But here's the problem. I am totally blind and severely hard-of-hearing that I am technically considered deaf-blind even though I have some residual hearing to be able to communicate with hearing aids. But even with that, I cannot cross streets independently, and therefore I feel like I have a true disability because I am force to be more interdependent rather than being purely independent. The older philosophy of the NFB only focused on people with just blindness, but now there are newer intersectionalities that are hoping to change that.
I personally agree with you about the guide dog thing. And if you look at the What's Wrong with the Guide Dog Schools, you can read my post there.
If you think that blind people are entitled to have their guide dogs and expect the driver to accommodate them, what about those with service animals for other disabilities, like a therapy dog, a hearing-ear dog, etc?

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2017-11-20 12:10:48

OK, i could say a lot of things here. But lets keep it to some simple points.
Discrimination: Is it discrimination to say nno to a blind person with a service animal. Yes  absolutely. Unless that driver  has  an allergy or the dog in question has a history of bad behaviour in a car. Rejecting them on the reason alone of not wanting to take that animal is discrimination.
Does the behaviour of the blind person  involved matter. Well yes. but  unless the the driver has taken them before and had a bad experience with them. The behaviour of such a passenger is unknown.
Does the wining  do more harm then good? Well first can we just address the hypocrisy of saying you don't want a flame war right before suggesting that a bunch of people are wining is pretty solid their. But i would suggest that addressing discrimination in any form is a good thing at any level. If uber drivers taxi drivers and such are rejecting all blind people on the words of  a few. I bring you back to that hole discrimination thing again.
People will have good experiences. Some will have bad. I would also be willing to bet some blind people make shitty passengers.
But these services allow  many blind people to main tain  some level of independance. So attempting to take that away  is just not right!

Words Are Hard

2017-11-20 12:23:56

But what is truly discrimination is there a solid define for that or is that how it is preseaved by the person?

Bitcoin Address:
1MeNca7h6m8du4TV3psN4m4X666p6Y36u5m

2017-11-20 13:04:41

Perhaps you should take the time to learn what a word means before suggesting that its  being used incorrectly.

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Words Are Hard

2017-11-20 15:06:05

I have always used lyft, and honestly, i've never had a rude or weird driver. The 3 times i used uber. On my first trip from my house to the down town train station Dallas, The driver kept asking me if i'd like to stop roadside for a little bit of *fun*? but at least i got there. My second trip, brom down town back to my house, the drivor was driving super super slow, racking up the cost, and then dropped me off a about 2 miles away from my house and i was lucky enough that i was near a phone store that i knew the people of and someone guided me to the buss stop and so i went on the public buss, and the 3rd was from a train station to a hotel and the guy kept asking me to please please please please not give him a bad rateing and was driving super fast and jumping stop lights. I know this cause i was with someone at the time that had vision. so anyway, i use lyft ecause they are more acomidating, and frindly overall. Useing lyft for 4 years and no crazyness

I like my uptime down low and my servers all hacked. Can see me droppin' twenty-fours with a router in the rack.
Ya like ya Switch-Ports hot and ya servers all hacked. If ya pings real high and ya networks pitch black.

2017-11-20 15:25:32

this is why I either A, I audio-record all of my rides, or: B. Video-record some rides if there is any reason to believe there is going to be a problem.
Again, I can't give this as legal advice, but I heard that in most places, audio-recording can be made legal as long as the parties are consentual, which could even be you yourself, which sort of sounds backward but okay. If nothing bad happens, I delete the recording and move on. If something unusual did happen, I'd keep the recording so I'd have evidence that could be useful.
So far, nothing like this has happened yet. I was never dropped off far away from my house before. I made sure of that.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2017-11-20 15:36:37

Aaron has pretty  much said it for me.
In the UK it is the law that public transport must take service animals of any sort, be they guide dogs, dogs for the deaf or any other sort of service dog, and yes, not doing so is discrimination, just the same way not taking a passenger of a particular race would be.

The occasions I've had drivers  refuse me because of a dog I phoned the company and calmly and rationally explained the situation, there is even a long and protracted saga about me flying to the states with my dog which has culminated in several airports in the UK now obtaining the license to transport services dogs out of Europe which they previously didn't have.

I haven't tried Uber specifically (though frankly what Earnie said about a  driver basically try to molest him/her really puts me off), however my concern with uba has more to  with taxi stratogies.

In the past I've always found that I've got on best with a taxi company when I use them repeatedly, when i can get to know the drivers and when I discuss things in Advance. There was a company in Durham I used for close to 15 years, and all the drivers new me and would be extremely helpful,, likewise there is a regular company I use in London.

The occasions I've had bad taxi experiences, they have usually been with random  taxies outside a station etc.

I'm sure uber have some responsable drivers working for them, however the fact that your essentially picking from a huge pool with little to know training or chance to vet who you get or discuss things in advance would make me wary of using them, even were it not for various off practices, such as not taking service dogs.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-11-20 18:03:20

Dark makes a very good point here. When I call for a taxi, I always call a favorite company, by now they and their drivers know me and we all get along very well. Although I usually only need the driver to tell me where we are in relation to my destination so I can get to the building on my own, most drivers will at the very least follow me on foot to make sure I get to where I'm going. If I'm going to a destination for the first time, I'll usually ask the driver if they'd mind helping me find the door, and I've never had one refuse.

I believe that much about your experience depends on how you treat your drivers, they are people to and are deserving of at least some respect and consideration. Although I'm not extravagant, I do make it a point to give the drivers a decent tip. The drivers at the taxi company I use know this and are always friendly and helpful and don't try any shady tricks like taking the long way to pad the fare.

I used to use the local parra transit but stopped when I found out that they contract with taxis to provide the transportation and are always telling passengers not to tip the drivers. Knowing that, most taxi drivers would try to avoid having to take parra transit passengers, and I don't blame them.

I used to use a different taxi company, but after encountering that distracted driver that charged me for his mistakes, I switched to the company I'm using now, after complaining to the old company about the driver. Apparently I wasn't the first complaint they got about him because they fired him and submitted whatever report they had to to have his taxi driver's license revoked.

2017-11-21 17:46:27

Well to an extent things are different in the Uk since it's not the practice over here to tip taxi drivers, something my lady has had to get used to. tips  are not expected over here accept in restaurants, though it's still possible to have a good relationship with a taxi company as I said by simply using them a lot and being a decent person.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)