1 (edited by sorressean 2017-10-29 16:25:40)

I'd decided to take a break from Redspot and have moved on to other games, but I logged on today between homework problems for some mindless killing and noticed that Sam Tupy himself is now the leader of another huge team, so I wanted to bring all of this out into the public, because everyone should know how this game is ran.

Prior to the update and even after, there was lots of discussion about certain members being removed from UKA that people didn't like. For example Luke (You'reFucked/Luccianno) was a top pick because people didn't particularly like him, as was Sito. UKA decided to hold a vote, but there was also a lot of contention at times with Nakon as team leader and some of the decisions he was making. I initially thought that we were on the right track to unifying the team and we staged a team vote to determine who should be left out of the team, but before the vote could become finalized, it was decided that the team should be dissolved through a sequence of events which I will do my best to explain below. Before I do so however, it is also worth note that during this vote Sam himself accrued three collective votes from Amine, Sito and Hamada who voted for him to be removed because they did not believe that the developer should be on the team; or at least that he should be playing as sam, as that opened us up to a lot of accusations of favoritism and cheating.

After this last big release, one of the big topics of discussion in the beta team and in UKA itself was simply how to deal with the team and make the game more fun for everyone. We all agreed on chopping tons of health off our base and spent a lot of time determining how to balance the game itself through the team; whether that included making 100% sure that nonagression pacts were followed or just splitting up. What brought about this discussion at least for me, was the destruction of Spectra's base, which included a lot of those from UKA who were beta members, and most notably (although it never had a chance to be deployed) included two people with mini guns. This event took place  less than a day after the release of the game. This was problematic for me and many others simply because we as a team were using our knowledge as beta members to destroy another team, when information on how to get the minigun was not known to anyone else at the time, and it was our resources that allowed us to have this gun in the first place. A lot of us agreed on cutting the base health down to 50 million, which would be around where the addition of mettle and would started to diminish in the amount of health it would add to the base, and would have resulted in us losing a net of about 136 million hp all told. The second issue however was what to do with all of the items inside the base, as now that item grabbers were much less effective, we basically had a ton of items that noone could get. Lots of ideas were eventually proposed, but none really surfaced as a great solution.

During this discussion, multiple STW admins got on teamtalk with a few of the UKA members, and we hashed out some of the issues that were apparent and collectively decided on a few things. first, sam came to the revelation that he's not much of a gamer and more of a developer, and realized that having all his friends as beta members on the most powerful team in the game was detremental to the progress of the game. Here, I am not sure why this was an issue because we're essentially losing things for being acquainted with Sam, but we'll move beyond that. This discussion resulted in a few points being raised:
* Many of the people on UKA were admins, if not all. This is simply because we were friendly with Sam and thus were around and could make sure that people weren't cheating.
* Many (save maybe one member) of the beta members were on UKA. The only exception I can think of to this is JimmyDub.
* UKA's size (16 at the time, if I remember correctly) was quite literally more than 50% of the player base, and thus it was hard for others to build up.

Given these points, we decided that ultimately it would make sense if a few things were to occur:
* The UKA base would be destroyed, as we weren't able to come to any other consensus on how to best manage the base and the items inside. This would allow us to give a better prospective on what it's like and help sam better direct the game.
* The team cap would be limited to 5, to prevent huge teams like UKA from growing again.

After the UKA base destruction was to take place, we had a team member (Luke) who was magically and randomly kicked from the team. No one understands who did it or why, but this essentially solved the problem of what to do with the resources. Sam then decided that he couldn't wait for the team and bases to be destroyed, because in his words "the team was ripping itself apart from the inside" and decided to stage a huge show of blowing it up, which caused tons and tons of lag for the server while he detonated massive amounts of sat bombs while receiveing lavish praise from the player base about how cool it was that UKA was going down and thanking him for doing that.

Interestingly enough, none of the points we agreed on have occured. Part of the reason for destroying the team was that we had beta members, admins, and a developer all on board as well as a huge member limit. This hasn't stopped Sam from recruiting a couple more people and building yet another huge team, consisting interestingly enough with beta members, admins and developers. Also worth note is that the team cap of 5 never was implemented, and so UKA rises again; this time under the control of Sam with only people he likes in it. I'll let you folks be the final decision on whether or not Sam wants to grow the game, or whether this destruction and rebuilding was nothing but a power play staged to create the team that he wanted and seed full control to him. While the argument could be made that the team could be destroyed, there's something to be said for the fact that they currently have 2600 kills, which is disproportionate to any other team in the game.

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And, what did you say there? Sam now has a team of his own friends and has kicked everyone else out? rooooooooooooooflfllflflflflflfllflflfl This is something witch will make me laph the rest of the days of redspot. And, needless to say, this isn't going to launch me back to playing redspot. Only thing that Sam Can do to make the game better is to move it back that old, fast, fun death match, where only that you had to do is run and kill, and where there were no things like base, item grabbers, even no Items. And anyway Sam has proovved enough I don't think that anything will manage to give him back his good old reputation.
So, good luck with this, hmm, how should we call it, a super developer and beta tester and admin non working distruction team management? rooooooooooooooooflfflflflflfllflflfllflfl.
ps: if you have hoped to make someone to return to redspot, I think that you have failed like a rabbet eating a huge tree. big_smile

Alexander Ferrumite
follow me on twitter. @ferrumite666.

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Naw, my goal wasn't to try to get people to return. I'm finished making excuses for sam's poor choices and narcissistic attitude. I just wanted to highlight how what was supposed to be the game moving in a great direction has failed, and done so in such a spectacular manner.

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I've stopped playing redspot, and even stw. And as of now, I won't be returning any time soon, if I even return at all. Sam has proven to me multiple times that he cares little about his players, some points are, very high pitch and health damaging speed hack detection, which, might I add, doesn't work at least 99 percent of the time. Also it seems as though the admins ban people for no reason other than they don't like that person. This whole uka thing really put me off of redspot, as it is no longer a game where you can log on for 10 minutes, kill a few people, get killed a few times, and log off. Redspot is a game where you litteraly have to play for hours on end just to see any kind of noticable change in skill, if it can even be called skill since all your really doing is grabbing items that usually only give you quick bursts of power unless you grab hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of items at a time. It has now become a realtime stratigy thing built entirely on the large amount of drama surrounding it and the young 12 year olds who continue to create more of it.
So my advice to you kind people on this forum, is that if you want to maintain your hearing, and might I add your sanity, stay away from redspot and might as well just stay away from sam's games all together.

I am the blind jedi, I use the force to see. I am the only blind jedi.

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1. This team I have is actually composed of less beta members than you may think. There are many people on this team that I meat by allowing them on the team.
2. The reason the cap never got added is because everyone was talking about it, and we decided not to encourage coward play as in, when everyone is offline, go destroy the base with no defense possible. If I limit a team down to 5 members, the bases would just get destroyed the moment we went offline and everyone's team would last maybe 12 hours.
3. Dude yusterday we were almost destroyed. Playing as the big team or whatever again, I can tell you it is really really hard to get a base above 17 mil health. So we very easily could, get destroyed. If someone was smart, they would go to the sky island and get bitcoins, then get some hp and shields and 20000 throwing stars and come finish us off in 20 minutes.

I am a web designer, and a game developer. If you wish see me at http://www.samtupy.com

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Is that how you have 2600 kills, by fighting people who are geared up? These sound like lots of excuses to me, you should know how hard it is to get 20000 throwing stars, I'd imagine that you guys are on the island defending those bitcoins (because why not), etc.

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Rory wrote:

I've stopped playing redspot, and even stw. And as of now, I won't be returning any time soon, if I even return at all. Sam has proven to me multiple times that he cares little about his players, some points are, very high pitch and health damaging speed hack detection, which, might I add, doesn't work at least 99 percent of the time. Also it seems as though the admins ban people for no reason other than they don't like that person. This whole uka thing really put me off of redspot, as it is no longer a game where you can log on for 10 minutes, kill a few people, get killed a few times, and log off. Redspot is a game where you litteraly have to play for hours on end just to see any kind of noticable change in skill, if it can even be called skill since all your really doing is grabbing items that usually only give you quick bursts of power unless you grab hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of items at a time. It has now become a realtime stratigy thing built entirely on the large amount of drama surrounding it and the young 12 year olds who continue to create more of it.
So my advice to you kind people on this forum, is that if you want to maintain your hearing, and might I add your sanity, stay away from redspot and might as well just stay away from sam's games all together.

the health sound is not a problem for me at all. the only time it was a problem  was with an old headset, and that's because when it made that  sound my headset would make popping noises and things like that. nothing hearing related happened to me though. also I hear the speed hack sound a lot especially with this damn processor I have in here, and I still hear just fine. not sure why people say the speed hack sound causes hearing loss or damage. it use to scare the hell out of me the first few times I heard it, but now I'm so used to it that it don't bother me at all.

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First the 2600 kills has nothing really to do with me. I'd imagine we have those because redspot is a killing game. Cenently we've been trying to get the minigun and the cannon, just like everyone else. I don't see an issue with that. And no, we are not on sky island defending the bitcoins. I know this sounds crazy, but all of our members are not on at once. We don't have the people to defend the base and kill and defend sky island at the same time.

I am a web designer, and a game developer. If you wish see me at http://www.samtupy.com

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9

I find it interesting that the team you're defending also consists of both developers, one of which ragequit when he died twice to UKA because UKA is op. There are solutions to bases being destroyed while members are offline, many of which have been implemented in other games. If you were less obsessed with adding 500 weapons and achievements that require you stand on your head and spin counter clockwise while chanting the national anthem backwards while also computing the square root of 1321221 in your head and spent more time solving balance issues through code, this wouldn't be an issue and you wouldn't have the excuse that your team needs to consist of 17 members to support all 5 of your bases.

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And there is another huge point that needs bringing up.
In a game with a team system, if your friend asks to be added, a lot of times you just say sure. You don't even think about it. That person is your friend. Why the hell now.

So the question is, why should I be any different. There are 2 teams. There is my beta team, and there is the team I make when I feel like relaxing and playing a game. So when someone that I know asks to join my beta team, sure. Why the hell not. When someone asks to join my game team that I know, sure, why the hell not.

Teaming with friends is a natural human instinct. I don't know why no one wants me to team with my friends. I don't get it. If all of you can team with your friends in any game, why can the same not be said for me.
And also, throwing stars are very easy to get. 1 volley with 35 stars is 50 dollars in the store. so you could get 3500 with 5000 dollars, which is only a few bitcoins, less than 1 pack from the sky island.

I am a web designer, and a game developer. If you wish see me at http://www.samtupy.com

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Sam, why do you actively play the game? I know its your game, but developers usually aren't actively playing like you do where your the best player in the game and look down on the other players. Maybe you just like the feeling of power so created redspot to feel like that. But in fps games, developers don't play daily and don't use the their admin powers to their advantage. In games like call of duty, developers may come on every once in a while as a surprise, but they're not usually unbeetable like you are on redspot. And even aprone, when I asked if he could mission with me because I wanted to see how much of a boss he could be with a minigun, admited to me that he's only as good as a player who's been playing for a few weeks. Developers don't play their games. They do to test stuff, but they don't play to the same level you do. Redspot would be much more enjoyable if you and the other admins didn't ban together and become the most powerful team in the game. I mean, personally I think bases and teams should just be removed all together, but you probably aren't going to do that.

I am the blind jedi, I use the force to see. I am the only blind jedi.

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1. Please provide proof that I use my admin powers to my advantage.
2. Please provide proof that I am the best player of the game. I know many players who could nail me in that game is they choose.
3. I play my own game because I find my own game fun.
4. Hold on. You think I spent 2 years coding redspot just so I could have the feeling of power?

I am a web designer, and a game developer. If you wish see me at http://www.samtupy.com

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13 (edited by sorressean 2017-10-29 17:54:11)

I don't have a problem with you playing your own game, adding beta members.
I have a problem with you destroying a team because you didn't like it, then deciding shortly thereafter that you were going to build another team just as big and use the same excuses we started with for why UKA shouldn't be destroyed for why your team should exist. I have a problem with us all coming to an agreement and making a choice that we thought was for the betterment of redspot for you to then take it and shatter it and build your own team. If you want to play, play... But you quite literally are once again the most powerful team with members with exponentially more kills than anyone else in the game, simply because you didn't bother to hold to any of the points that we discussed and decided would make Redspot a better game for everyone. If you want a fight, team caps would let you have fights, and your team caps would let those multiple people on your team build smaller ones to make the game more fun for everyone. The issues aren't that you specifically are playing, just that literally nothing has been done to combat a lot of the issues which we spoke about. You seem to be under the impression that you have to have a base, despite the fact that most people who aren't you and/or your team don't keep bases for long. The concept we spoke of when we had that big long talk was that bases are not constants; they're something you fight for and hold; if you go offline and it gets destroyed, you build another one. Simply put, you wanted a system that would not allow for another base like dabs to be created, yet you are trying to state that you need 17 people on a team to protect your team. You've also not really bothered to address the fact that one of your developers ragequit because of UKA but is now part of the biggest team in the game; I guess that only matters when you're not on the receiving end of getting killed.

Lets do some math here. In order to simply destroy your base you claim needs 20k throwing stars, you need:
3500=5000 dollars
20000/3500 = 5.71
5.71 * 5000 =28550
IIRC, bitcoins give between 200 and 240 a pop. I'm going to call it 220 for the sake of calculation:
2220*20 = 4400.
28550/4400 = 6.48
that's 6.48 packs (call it 7 since you can't get .48 of a pack) bitcoins just to destroy your base. one would also need to shield up, get lots of health and not be uninterrupted by any of 17 players in order to make this happen.

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Actually, bitcoins give between 200 and 350 dollars. But that's not the point here is it big_smile The reason dabs got destroyed is because it A, had way way way more health than any logical person would ever get there base up to. Like I said, 17 mil health is the highest you can get to before it starts becoming plain stupid to add anymore. And again because of the items that were in storage that is really really really hard to get now. With this new team it's different. We don't have item grabbers usefulness like UKA  had. We have different people. We can't get nearly as powerful as UKA got.

I am a web designer, and a game developer. If you wish see me at http://www.samtupy.com

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15

I only skimmed the first few lines of this post... and oh my gods... can we NOT do this again? Please? It appears all people seem to want to do for entertainment these days is bash Redspot. Enough is enough I tell you! We all know where this is going to go, and I have had it with seeing these posts! I don't know what you hope to gain, but we've been over this many times over many topics, so why make a new one? Enough is enough!

"I am one with the Force. The Force is with me."

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Well, this topic makes two things clear to me. First redspot will never change. It will continue to be a power trip for you and those who stroke your ego will get the farthest in making changes. I'm sorry I can't be that person. It's also blatently obvious that you can't give up the power of having a team for the betterment of the game; you through your actions and excuses have made this pretty apparent. I've said what I wanted to say, and I'll leave those hollo excuses to make my case for me. I am of the oppinion that it won't take long for people to start trickling away. Unfortunately redspot is the only larger game that allows for PVP fps; I can only hope that someone will build something else so that people don't have to choose that or nothing, because it is that new game, should it ever appear that will do the most to show you just how much your players really like the game. My points can stand on their own, those who will understand them will, but it's obvious that excuses will flow forth and nothing what so ever will actually change. Enjoy your new UKA.

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@15: if your still reading this anyway, smile
I've seen you contribute similar comments to threads of this nature. Don't get me wrong, I don't think its an exaggeration to say everyone reading this is tired of it for one reason or another, this excludes those who continue to get entertainment out of it. smile
However you've seen how far posts such as this go.

I'm gonna go back and provide a couple examples here. although a member of this team, I too agree with some of the points given, mainly about the repetitive nature.
Just this morning actually, one of our team members thought it would be a wonderful idea to put a shit ton of sandbags on the bridge, which required using more than 1 concussive to get through, easy. I complained about it, some other people were in agreement, the hole 9 yards. I therefore spent over 30 minutes easy destroying. then gave another player concussives and stuff.
I'm not asking for a metal here, and know this is barely the point of this thread, however to say we're not allowing other players to have a chance is false.
I encourage a team to go on there and destroy the base, god this sounds exactly identical to RTU so I'm gonna stop. What it comes down to though is this. The game itself is obviously focused on power, in fact a player by the name of Lucas was able to fortify the island, get a decimater as well as a ton of health and bitcoins, and camp out buying then occasionally killing players. People on game complained about it sure, including the dev himself. However this wasn't brought up on here to my knowledge. If it was the developer, any of his friends, or even slight acquaintances, we'd most likely be seeing a topic of this nature pop up. Beta members obviously know about new features, achievements, etc. But this knowledge is very commonly shared on the chat, there's even a redspot spoilers guide now.

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@post 11.
damn, i still can't get why do people need to put on admin power when a developer or simply an admin play his own game.
only because a developer is playing his game this doesn't mean he needs to use admin powers. and maybe the admin powers could be only kicking and banning players. we don't know so make those accusations is pointless.

If you want to get in touch with me you can follow me on Twitter
have a nice day.
Paul

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The admin powers are to kick/ban and to see compinfo (this includes username, computer name, path of executable (C:\users\foobar\redspot\redspot), etc. That's literally all. Sam has any other commands he writes, but admins can't cheat. I've seen sam gather items as well, and I've seen him get killed by people so I can gaurantee he doesn't also cheat. He should be able to play his own games without being accused of that, and that's not even the point of this topic.

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you know, this is exactly the reason why I'm sort of glad I'm actually banned from playing redspot. So while I play other games that don't throw up shitstorms every .420 femtoseconds, I'm going to read this, get pizza and beer, and laugh about all of it. Redspot, stw, ultrapower and similar drama fests are also a clear reason why I will never create multiplayer games for this community if I ever get serious with programming, Until the community has collectivly grown up that is.

Bar, bar, bar...
Bar is my name and to go bar is my aim...
Sometimes I'll go "Bad bar",
But in the end its always bar, ahem beer, ahem bar! beer bar!

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community collectively growing up? What a delusion.
Also, admins are now able to force players AFK, in the event they're not responding to inquiry as well as send serverwide notifications, warnings, e.g. when the servers about to restart

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at #20: why do you pretend you're better than the community? A game and the community is what the developer lets it be. Many choices made by the person running the game are what creates the community around that kind of game. Lots of drama surrounds Redspot, stw and etc because they don't take steps to prevent such issues from occuring, but come up with excuses and keep adding items to try to keep people interested in playing. It's a matter of how the developer handles him or herself; I play many games that are managed much better and have many less issues. While i dislike alter aeon for example, Dentin handles issues as they present themselves and keeps working on the game; I can log on and play right now and not experience a lot of issues that I might by logging on and playing Redspot or STW. This of course is a bit of a bad comparison as Alter isn't PK mandatory, but hoepfully my meaning is clear.

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that is not at all what I ment. I am not better than many of the people on this forum, hell anyone could go back and simmply take my older posts from about a year back as proof. But my opinion about creating online games still stands none the less.

Bar, bar, bar...
Bar is my name and to go bar is my aim...
Sometimes I'll go "Bad bar",
But in the end its always bar, ahem beer, ahem bar! beer bar!

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I understand what you mean sort of. and I'm saying that there are a lot of good people in the community who will play the games and not cause trouble; but for those that do, it's down to the developer to deal with the issue. I'm obviously spilling issues from RS into the forums, but the number of issues and problem players on a game can be a reflection of how that developer handles that game.
Lets take redspot for example:
Lots of players cheat and lots of others have an issue with it. This creates a ton of problems for the game, etc. Solution: tools can be given to admins (I suggested an admin console long ago) and fixes can be put in place to help prevent this. I didn't say fully prevent, but help.
Lots of players cheat by abusing bugs. This again creates issues; bugs can and should be fixed, not determined to be to hard to fix every iteration of the update. For example, one of the most common bugs is that of putting in any kind of input; whether using the menu for storage lockers, putting in base codes. This will sometimes depending on lag move you back and forth across a base, or you can hear players drawing weapons (now doing combos) sometimes wihle they put in their base code. I've mentioned this issue on two consecutive updates and it was decided to be to hard; the only bugs that get fixed shouldn't be the low hanging fruit that you can clean up in 30 seconds or less.
Things like this, proper management etc make the community a better place to be. The one negative that Redspot has going for it is that this is a pk game, so feelings and egos will get hurt more often than anywhere else, but there's nothing to be done about that; with better management solutions that would just be the usual for any kind of PK game.

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@20
So is the community responsible if someone, say, makes a table witch would crash under a smallest peace of paper and they complain about it? Does that meen that we shouldn't say, hey this is bad for some very good reason like the table example above. I think that this forum was ment for discussion, and that everyone has a right to disagree with anyone because, well, they can. If you think that everyone who wants to criticize something, he should only delete the game and let it go on? Everyone has the right to comment on any game and on any espect of it as long as it doesn't get personal. about post 22, don't know how mutch does developer shape the community, but his aditude shurely makes the game better or worser.

Alexander Ferrumite
follow me on twitter. @ferrumite666.

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