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I am just letting those who do not know already that JAWS 2018 is out and that FS is saying that they are going to have a problem with a November 14 release of Firefox. I can follow their suggestion of switching to the Extended Support Release version of Firefox or I could basically curse Firefox and FS out, but that option will be no good. Of course, FS is really pushing for people to get their adaptive tech up to date. This of course means that they really want everyone to go to the latest version of JAWS, or at least everyone that uses JAWS. I am on version 15 of JAWS now, and if the pricing is right, it would cost me around $550 to make that upgrade without two extra SMAs, or $750 to get the upgrade with the two SMAs. I am guessing that I will, sooner or later, be forced over to NVDA do to the pricing and or the like. I still do not like the license change from V15 to V16 myself, but I do not like the price of upgrading either. Anyway, people can go here to see what it would cost them to upgrade.

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
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Lol. I like how they say upgrades or SMAs can be purchased over the internet for single user licenses in the US, but when I enter my serial number it says to contact them to upgrade it. Okay then!

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3 (edited by TheGreatCarver 2017-10-28 02:44:24)

cw wrote:

I am just letting those who do not know already that JAWS 2018 is out and that FS is saying that they are going to have a problem with a November 14 release of Firefox. I can follow their suggestion of switching to the Extended Support Release version of Firefox or I could basically curse Firefox and FS out, but that option will be no good. Of course, FS is really pushing for people to get their adaptive tech up to date. This of course means that they really want everyone to go to the latest version of JAWS, or at least everyone that uses JAWS. I am on version 15 of JAWS now, and if the pricing is right, it would cost me around $550 to make that upgrade without two extra SMAs, or $750 to get the upgrade with the two SMAs. I am guessing that I will, sooner or later, be forced over to NVDA do to the pricing and or the like. I still do not like the license change from V15 to V16 myself, but I do not like the price of upgrading either. Anyway, people can go here to see what it would cost them to upgrade.

Unfortunately, this is also effecting NVDA. This message was just sent over the NVDA mailing list:

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/28281

A further explanation may be found at:

https://nvda.groups.io/g/nvda/message/28293

Users have also reported that Firefox is more sluggish in version 57. Looks like I'll be using either Waterfox, SeaMonkey, or Google Chrome. Oh well!

As for Internet Explorer, I refuse to use that because of the inherent risks of using such an outdated browser.

TGC

"Today I choose life. Every morning when I wake up I can choose joy, happiness, negativity, pain... To feel the freedom that comes from being able to continue to make mistakes and choices - today I choose to feel life, not to deny my humanity but embrace it."
Kevyn Aucoin

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It's good to know that it is not just JAWS. I guess I will have to check out both water fox and chrome. Does anyone know how well chrome works with JAWS v15? I myself will work on getting a firefox fix into place for my system even if it mean replacing the browser. uggg. I personally like the fact that I can have my RSS feeds as part of my bookmarks. It makes scrolling through them easyer for me.

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
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5

internet explorer works better with jaws than firefox or chrome. Chrome doesn't work at all with jaws 12, and for some reason I still have that.

I am the blind jedi, I use the force to see. I am the only blind jedi.

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I personally use Microsoft edge and NVDA. I think that Jaws has all reddy got support for Microsoft edge. It's not as good as internet explorer or google chrome but it's good enough.ps: one mager problem for what ever reason, NVDA interacts with webpages in edge as with word documents. I have no idea why. That's why vizited and unvisited link quick navigation doesn't work.

Aleksandar
My search criteria on audiogames will never be the age of the developer, what ever someone else may say.
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Jaws 16 and microsoft edge don't work at all, at least as far as i'm aware.

I am the blind jedi, I use the force to see. I am the only blind jedi.

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8 (edited by flackers 2017-10-27 02:22:29)

The only useful thing I can see about jaws 2018 is the ability to OCR documents directly. Looks like the crappy OpenBook is out of a job, fingers crossed. It used to be that there was always something interesting worth getting the latest version for, but that hasn't been true for the last four or five. These days FS release a new version just to make money. Most of what they include could really be covered by updates, they just dress things up as new features. The most disappointing being the version that included the smart navigation as the big new thing. I felt this was a pretty pointless idea even if it worked reliably, which it doesn't. Having it off by default says it all. Don't know what happened around J15, but things started going backwards, to the point j17 for me was utterly unusable because of buggy behaviour.

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I  don't know about anyone else, but JAWS 17 started lagging the holy heck out of my machine after it was running for a while. It even made the fan start going nuts.

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10 (edited by raygrote 2017-10-27 09:35:46)

As for the original question about Firefox, I don't really know. I haven't used it in a while, I now use Seamonkey. Last time I tried Waterfox, nothing read. But if it's good or is compatable with NVDA, I'll give it another look, it is supposedly very fast. SOmetimes I use Chrome. Then again I don't do a lot of advanced things with my web browsers, so perhaps I could still use Firefox without much issue.

In terms of Jaws 2018, I stopped actively using jaws 2-3 years ago. I still have a demo lying around if I need it though, and there are times when I do.
In regards to OCR, what does Jaws use? Does the Win10 one work better? IN the brief times I've used both, I found the win10 one to read better, but I haven't done enough to do a representative comparison.

The reason I stopped following Jaws was because in 2015 I needed to reformat my machine, and I was already several versions behind as it was, with no upgrades left. So it was either switch to NVDA or tell my parents I needed to buy upgrades. The latter, while an option, wasn't very tempting. That drove me to use and learn NVDA. And while I was savvy enough to be able to cope with the change, some people are not. It was truly not at all as terrifying to me as I thought it would be, and I am so glad that I was forced into that. I certainly wouldn't have done it on my own but I feel much better for it. The reason I bring this up is not to start a Jaws vs NVDA war, because I will probably cut my head off in complete agitation if that starts, but to address a very real concern I have now that I've sort of gotten out and talked to some blind computer users.

I'm now volunteering an at organization providing support to blind/vi people and one of our services is equipment training. So I sometimes go to people's houses or help them over the phone with computer problems, and every single one I know has either been told to get Jaws, or uses Jaws already. Perhaps 3-5 years ago I would've felt more inclined to stay in the know about what Jaws is doing; after all I was still using Jaws at that point all-be-it an old version, but now I am really wondering how the Jaws 2018 update will affect people. Admittedly I haven't met many Jaws users, but the ones I have met were on Jaws 13, I think? there was even one on 10 ish but I can't remember. Sooner or later these people are going to have to upgrade, and I fear that with every new version that comes along, it's going to get worse. What are these people going to do when they are forced, as I was, to either upgrade or make a radical screen reader change? Of course whether it was Jaws 19 or Jaws 2018 wouldn't have made an objective difference in the way of things, but I worry that the name change to 2018 alone will stir some things in present and future clients I've helped, though I suspect most of those won't really keep current on that stuff but whatever. Some may attempt to stay in the know, so I wonder if I/we'll be needed more in the coming months as Jaws 2018 gets out of beta and people want to upgrade. Not that I mind that per say, but that paranoid part of me still worries that this will become a problem. It's a stupid concern I know, and maybe some of these people will actually upgrade before we get a call asking for help with something that only an upgrade could fix. Though most of these people don't even know what Windows or Jaws version they're on so I have to figure that out before we go anywhere *sigh*. The thought of saying, "Sorry Jaws can't do that unless you upgrade to the 2018 version and it's going to cost a bit," is for some reason a little more depressing than, "Sorry, Jaws can't do that." I'd feel so bad for telling them how far behind they are that I'd tell them to use a third-party program. Heck I'm on the latest NVDA snapshot, running on Win10 about to get whatever latest updates are out since I haven't checked in ages. But I don't use the built-in stuff much, and the stuff I do use I've installed the old Win7 versions so they are used by default. So it's conceivable that if upgrading isn't an option, then people could go that route. I really don't know. With the way Win10 is/has been advancing, this becomes more apparent to me.

Once again I'm not out to say that Jaws 2018 or Jaws anything is useless. I have no authority to make such a claim. And as I said, I don't think it's Jaws 2018 that specifically brought on my concerns. It's just something I've woken up to over the past 3-6 months as I've started helping clients.

Make more of less, that way you won't make less of more!
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The fundamental way jaws works hasn't changed in the 10 years I've been using it, so anyone who can use version 10 or whatever should have no problem using 2018. As for not purchasing the software maintanence agreement to keep up to date: although I hate FS's greed, you only make that mistake once. I started using Jaws in 2008 with version 8, which was a time of great change for MS with Vista and 7 coming out pretty much right after each other, and with all the changes in the way websites worked, you were forced to upgrade jaws tjust to get things to work properly. But then version 10 seemed to work fine for a long time and I got behind by two or three versions. This time when I was forced to upgrade, I expected it to be the price of one upgrade, but I had to pay for three, which cost me as much as the full price of jaws. The lady sales person was noticeably embarrassed by this outrageous price for what was just an upgrade to a piece of software. The greed of FS sickens me, and I'd dearly love to not have to give them another penny, and instead give modest donations to the worthy cause of NVDA more often, but I do like jaws, especially the simple scripting language.
Jaws is ingrained in my PC usage to the point that using a different screen reader feels like relearning to walk. On the subject of firefox, I've never been able to stay using it for more than about a couple of hours. I always revert to IE for ease of use, just occasionally using FF for the odd thing internet explorer can't manage, which is very much like my usage of jaws and NVDA. Chrome is noticeably faster than IE, but firefox isn't. Maybe the other browsers offer features to people more savvy than me, but IE does everything I need and is the most accessible with jaws. The dialogs being especially smooth to navigate.

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12

I don't use Firefox so that won't be a problem for me, but their new installer does have problems. Every time I try to launch it I get this error message:

---------------------------
Themida
---------------------------
Cannot find 'LocaleCommon.dll'. Please, re-install this application
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

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13

Sorry for the double post but I should have asked this in my last post and forgot.

The only thing on my computer that I can think of that might use Themedia is Code Factory's Eloquence for Windows.

To test my theory I'd need to uninstall it, but I'd first want to be sure all my settings won't be deleted if I do, and they'll be used again when I reinstall it.

Does any one know?

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I do not know if your synth settings will remain after uninstalling. Sorry for not knowing. For those who are wondering, I am a Firefox user myself. Yes, some of the dialogs are crazy. They are sort of like web pages. Anyway, once you got your settings set, firefox works ok or at least for me. As for JAWS, I am around four versions behind, but it looks like they will charge me $550 to bring me current. Yes, I went and checked on the pricing and it looks like if I got up to the latest upgrade and bought two SMAs, it would be around $150 cheeper than the full version. Crazy crazy. I am used to JAWS. I use it every day. I will have to see if NVDA is up to the standers I have become a custem to in the apps I used. For example, can I get all the formatting info I would want while using NVDA with word and excel? As I see it, windows 10 with NVDA or narrator may give JAWS a run for the money as it were. Think about it, if you are new to the computer, will you go for the free stuff or JAWS? Be fore you answer, take into account what people are tought to use along with the money that they have to spend. Now, for me, JAWS v15 on windows seven is ok with me. I just do not like the fact that a possible fix later on to firefox would cost me around $550 if I do not switch to NVDA. Now, I do not do personal about the problems from 16 on seeing that I have not use 16 on yet. I haven't seen the point over all. Now if I upgraded to windows 10, I would have to choose to pay the upgrade price or to switch over to NVDA. As for openbook, if I remember right, the latest FS cast talks like there would still be a place for Openbook even though JAWS 2018 has your basic OCR needs taken care of. The short version is that Openbook still could do a better job if you need a choice between different OCR engines If this does away with Openbook, it can do away with kirswell 1000 too.

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
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15

No need to be sorry you don't know about the Eloquence for Windows. If nobody knows, I'll see if I can get an answer out of Code Factory.

What Freedom Scientific does which I thihnk is totally insane and unfair is make you pay for every upgrade you skipped. So if you have JAWS 15 and want to upgrade to version 2018, they make you pay for upgrades to versions 16, 17, and 18, as if you'd been staying up to date all along but without the SMA. Even though I'm a died in the wool JAWS supporter, I think that it's so wrong on so many levels. Maybe they think it encourages people to keep buying their SMAs. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Despite JAWS gaining more OCR capabilities, Open Book still has a place for those who want to OCR a book or other very large amount of paper documents to an electronic form.

I am actually considering doing this to a couple of books I read as a kid, mainly because I remember enjoying them so much that I'd like to read them again, but BARD and Book Share don't have them.

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LOL. I feel sorry for those who are so far behind that the upgrade cost more than a new version of JAWS would cost. Picture over $1100 to bring it current. LOL. I hope they are not that stupid to charge that much. If they do and someone is that far behind, I may highly suggest for that person to really think about NVDA. I wonder what it would take to shame them into a more reasonable price if upgrade costs run that high... As for openbook, I currently use it to OCR any PDFs I need access to plus to take those extreamly few images of the printed page that I need to send out to people I know.

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
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17

Yes, I am still using jaws 12. I probably could upgrade, but since i'm planning on ditching my pc in the future I don't see the point. I don't even think any version of jaws works on win7 higher than like jaws 13 but idk.
My windows 1 0 laptop at school running jaws 16 does have problems some have pointed out. It doesn't lag, but quite often my speech will cut out and sometimes the computer freezes but sometimes just speech cuts out for around 30 seconds sometimes a minute.
I'm thinking of bootcamping windows onto my mac. Should I get win10 or not? I'm not impressed with how it and jaws work together so far due to the problems i've mentioned above, but its probably the only one I can get for free still, and i'm not going to switch to NVDA.
Is it even possible to upgrade jaws for free? I heard you could do it if you use ILMs from the version you have as long as they don't run out, but is this true? I haven't used any of mine before I don't believe, so I should still have some. There in the help menu right?

I am the blind jedi, I use the force to see. I am the only blind jedi.

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18

That is insane! It's not enough that the user purchases the product for the absurd price of $1200. If you don't keep up with your Freedom Scientific taxes for the privilege to continue to access your computer, you must pay for all the upgrades that you will never use. I'm also extremely concerned now that Freedom basically has a monopoly on commercial screen readers. As I've said, this product is only good for those in work environments that need the efficiency features like text analyzer and scripting capabilities. Forcing someone to pay $500 just to upgrade the screen reader for new versions of Firefox is beyond disgusting! People may have been able to get away with using old versions of JAWS on Windows 7, but the fact is that Microsoft has moved to a biannual schedule for Windows 10 which means you will have to keep your screen reader up to date or lose out as Microsoft makes changes. I'm personally on the Narrator and NVDA bandwagon and will only consider JAWS if it's required for a specific task in my career.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

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19 (edited by flackers 2017-10-28 01:17:50)

The latest version of jaws works with win 7. The problems that started happening around v16 seemed to go away with v18, and jaws became usable again. .

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20

if you call and say you want to buy jaws for people on fixed incomes and social security, you can buy jaws plus 2 smas updates for $240 or jaws with 0 smas for $120. Hal night from VFO told me about the $120 full jaws license for people on fixed incomes program.

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21

tell them jaws is only worth $120 or so. Or you could shame them into giving you a much lower price by saying you'll just donate your $1000 to NVDA project. Maybe 20 years ago jaws was worth $1000 but not anymore.

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I only use JAWS for Microsoft Word, as both NVDA and Narrator are both quite sluggish. I've started using LibreOffice though, so we'll see where that goes.

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I do not know how they would handle me telling them I am on a fixed income, but I have not thought about telling them that. I never thought it would be an option in the first place. I will have to get my ducks in a row and ask them I guess. I do not want to rob them of an income for the product, but the price for me to upgrade is a bit much to put it as an understatement.

All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.
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24

If I ever fell far behind enough that bringing myself current would cost more than a new license, then I'd just buy the new license and ditch the old one.

Considering all the support they get from governments and institutions, there's no legitimate justification for JAWS to be so expensive except one, greed.

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25 (edited by BlindJedi 2017-10-28 15:50:03)

As many people said in the NVDA vs jaws argumemt we had on here a while back, jaws is really only that price because of all the working and schooling features it has behind the scenes like scripting and office support for all of the microsoft office like powerpoint, exel,, word, outlook and the others. Its designed to be used in an office or classroom where as NVDA wasn't. And at the end of the day jaws is a product, there gonna sell their product. Why do so many blind people think they need everything for free because were blind? Not all the blind community is like this, but a lot of people think that for what ever reason. Not trying to start a flame war by saying this, but seriously, if your in that mind set, get out of it. Most products like jaws, canes, braille displays/note takers cost money, because, their products being developed, and to make more of them or improve the existing versions of these the developers of said products need money to expand their options and improve their products. They also need to live, and if developing jaws or braille displays is all they do, they gotta make a living some how right? I do think that jaws is a little expensive though, not saying its not. There also aren't that many blind people around though so that's gotta be partially why jaws costs what it does.

I am the blind jedi, I use the force to see. I am the only blind jedi.

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