But the people who can't use their apps anymore would probably be thinking, "No, screw you Apple, you're probably going to do something to take my money again," and Apple won't get anything out of it, right? Although I suppose there are people who are gullible enough to buy another device, thinking there's no way they can get screwed over again, because all they can think about at that given moment is, "When can I message my boy/girl/best friend," or something like that.
I would also like to know what the problem was.
Obviously I am not a developer of mobile games and I also can't know how development for IPhones works.
But if I as a company develop apps for apple, wouldn't I be bound by contract to update my code for each new Apple device every year?
And wouldn't I be required to know this before I actually get my app released in the app store?
This looks to me as if this company thought, "hey, let's make games, but on a locked down system without knowing that we must update more often than on a computer."
And then they seemed surprised that they would have to regularly update These games and then they were seemingly so shocked that they ran away in fear and changed Business type just to get rid of it all.
Sounds stupid and it probably wasn't the way I described it here.
But you should know before you make Long Lasting decisions.
And it looked a bit like they were behaving like children.
I thought you have to join a developer program or something with clear terms and regulations.
Shouldn't there be something in the contract which states that the app developer has to maintain their product because of frequent software updates or new generations of hardware coming out?
And wouldn't this company have been informed that 64-Bit support was coming even before the public was told?
I mean that's what developer programs are for, so that commercial hardware manufacturers or software developers can usually get preview builds to test that their new products will run when the next operating system or device comes out?
And finally, does anyone know if maintaining software compatibility for their games would have been that expensive?
I mean, their games were already initially developed, sounds and music were paid for, respectably sound designers as well, voice acting was already done. So they would only need to get the latest SDK for IOS 11 or whatever the current version to be supported was, check the code and possibly run it just through an updated compiler once someone looked the code over...
And if the SDK and its tools were of good quality, shouldn't there be "helper tools" which either check for compatibility in the code, or partially convert projects to the new format?
Isn't it also possible to migrate projects between different versions of Visual Studio as an example?
And if we are talking commercial development tools/engines, project conversion/migration should be part of the package.
I don't know if it is with IOS, but I would like to know.
Why is that apparently too expensive to continue with the update cycle? Why did they drop game development entirely?
If they had said they won't support their current games, that was one thing, but why they did not simply say they would make a new game if creating a new port/version is too complicated is beyond me, because surely someone bought their games and thus they should have earned some money through it...
Since I don't know if creating a new game supporting current hardware is cheaper than updating existing ones I wonder if that decision was a good one from a business point of view.
I would like to know what actually is cheaper, updating existing code to support IOS 11, or to create new code from scratch not including costs for sounds or voice acting if a new game was to be developed.
28 (edited by ianhamilton_ 2017-09-11 21:11:28)
shotgunshell - as far as I'm aware the upkeep cost Vs revenue was the initial reason. although that won't so much be because of the share that Apple take of the money, bear in mind that they had no advertising or in app purchases, once someone has bought it they get no money more money after that. But that's only the initial reason. Since then they have stopped making software altogether, they're now solely an advertising company and don't have any developers, all of the developers have left.
lord_raven - no, you are under no contract at all to keep things updated. you can also pull anything from the store any time you want
Also, earning some money does not equal earning enough money to make it a profitable enterprise. Audiogames are pretty niche small market things, and given their voiceover talent etc they will not have been cheap to make. Far easier to turn a profit making a mainstream game that also happens to be accessible... e.g. diceworld. And far easier if you aren't tied to a premium upfront cost business model.
It's not a case of failing to foresee any need to updating, it's a case of the OS update frequently completely breaking the game. That's not a reasonable thing to predict.
If I had built an app that had managed to make enough sales to cover its development costs but not much more, and sales had dropped off to a minimal trickle, and I was then hit with successive high update costs that I knew future sales would not be enough to cover.. I'd pull it without a second's hesitation.
Also Somethin Else did not change the type of business they are, they just closed one small division of the company. Companies usually do that when the division is not making a profit, or not making enough profit compared to other areas so they want to divert their funds into the more profitable areas.
And that really shows Ios's unreliability as a platform for incredibly involved audio games of this type.
Although I suppose there are people who are gullible enough to buy another device, thinking there's no way they can get screwed over again, because all they can think about at that given moment is, "When can I message my boy/girl/best friend," or something like that.
You nailed it. Those are exactly the kind of people Apple will feed off of to buy the latest and greatest handset, because when their old device slows down they're just gonna think it's getting old, and will have no idea that Apple is force-stalling them to get you to upgrade. I e, the people who buy an iphone without using a computer first, and want something that just works.
30 (edited by shotgunshell 2017-09-12 06:44:22)
So Apple sets an expiration date in the software to make it slow down on November 22 or whatever date they choose, or does it have to do with the actual device?
A few comments:
1. Papasangre 2 is working only in IOS 10.x. Papasangre 1 is working in ios 11, but there are some limitations.
I think, that it is not problem of 64/32 bit applications.
2. As I read somewhere the first papasangre came with higher price about 4 or 5 usd but the apple refused to the 1 usd or something like this.
3. Android is possible run both 654 resp. 32 bit applications, same windows and Linux and I don't see why apple shouldn't as well.
4. The papaengine wasn't released for the reason, because they wanted money and they will share with big company who will pay as much as possible.
5. About signing Ipa files, I am having older versions papa II is working but not papa 1, but I installed all of them on several devices two iphone 4s, ipad 2 and not required an applied.
6. Problem is that I restored from the backup for me backup is full backup and not that it is downloading the files through the internet. In this case I asked if somebody is having the ipa files apple don't have problem to sign it because I bought but I dont' have them.
7. About games there are many games but most of them don't work so well on IOS 11 and buy now something when are still some 32 bit applications in the store.
8. I offered that I will buy the engine with the papa games, for example create come campaign or whatever, but they don't want discuss with one person. When I was in the UK I forged visit them and speak directly.
As I know from the mail they left the dev account till the end of the cycle in 2016 of Jun or something like this and didn't pay for next year.
But still they and I believe that they have the code or the games and waiting if somebody will come with big money.
Remember that in the store are more than 5 years not updated applications smaller companies or individual people and they are still there.
With app purchases it was their fault but I think, that they should left the applications in the store minimum Papasangre 2 or Audio defence. Why they created after few years new games if they saw, that it will not earn money?
Next think is that the papasangre 1 wasn't developed primary for blind users. And I am sure if they could write that they need support from the community like as NVDA or tapinradio they should continue. Next think is, that the advertisement will earn them another money.
33 (edited by jack 2017-09-12 22:48:11)
Apple doesn't do 32 bit support because they don't want to. It's possible, but they choose not to do it. Papa engine, last I heard is open sourced. The games are lost to time unless something else comes.
Don't be so anry I aske donly the ipa files the rest is on my own if I will be able paly or not.
Papa engine wasn't released as opensource as I wrote before.
If the Papa Engine wasn't open sourced, I did miss that. Last I heard they were actually open sourcing that. Well damn.
Last what I read was, that they will sell only to the big companies.
They probably only can sell to the big company. They are, after all, no small company either. They can't expect to get the investment back from that voice talent used with our audio games market, because it is small at best.
am not sure, but I suppose, that the voices of the persons girls and the Papa man in the first and in second the person who was going through and woman and man voice wwere voices of their employees. For me it sounds logicall, why find another than use my own employees?
Now we are trying get the game from another iphone for my friend who don't want lost it we can try amazing.
Yes, the original Papa Sangre used their own voices. The Nightjar was the first game in which they used a big-name actor.
Sad now that sixth sense is going the same way as the rest. I suppose once I update, if I do update, it will no longer be workable on my I7.
Bigger problem I see, that new iTunes don't have the apstore, what means, that you will be not able download the ipa files to your computer.
Interesting that papasangre and audio defence still working with ios 11, but because developer didn't payed the years 99$, they gave them away from the store, but they forged for the people, who bought it.
You're telling me they forged the apps for the folks who bought it? Does this mean...that they're still obtainable?
I'm confused as to why people are still obsessing over this company. The apps aren't being supported any more.
Yes it is problem, you bought the game and you aren't able to get to the game.
And why I am still trying to get the app? I payed for it and if they put it away from the store and I wasn't able to download or get to the older phone, where it is working, I feel defrauded.
There was Apple mistake as well and all participants are putting hands from it away and telling that you must solve with another company etrc.
My problem is not, that they didn't pay the dev. account I bought the game and for me as user is, that I want to paly or get money back.
I am 99% sure that wasn't problem of the compatibility. But it looks like, that I found the way, how to get to the apps or how to extract from the phone if somebody interested.
I really don't think they can! refund everyone. They don't have all the funds to do so, Apple takes 33% remember, and they used a lot of the investment towards, well, the games. As for Apple, they have bigger fish to fry. Trust me. I did the same thing when the svox voice server apparently sent down and I couldn't download the voices anymore, I asked Google for a refund considering the company wasn't around anymore, they said if you can't contact the company, they can't be of any help. And I was like awwh screw it, it's no financial crisis anyway. See, when you're spending pocketchange on an app, you really can't lose your shit if you don't get a refund. Sure, it totally sucks that the company is gone, I totally get that. But when so many parties are saying they can't do it, that should generally be a sign that it's s o l at this point.
Ok, but if it is happening in more than 6 aps not only those games? I must think, that something is wrong.
I never played any of the Papa Sangre games, so it sucks to see them disappear from the appstore.
“There are four things that we ought to do with the Word of God – admit it as the Word of God, commit it to our hearts and minds, submit to it, and transmit it to the world.” — William Wilberforce
Ios 11 maybe? Don't know what else to tell you unless they're 32bit apps. Those won't work, period. That is, if you've upgraded to ios11. I jumped off the ios train a long time ago, all be it still using it on occasion. Too limiting, and app distribution is too tight.