1 (edited by MAREK2000 2017-09-08 08:49:33)

Hi all,
Here is the latest status from SomethinElse. I am trying push them if they can provide me the ipa files, Apple could sign it for me, that is not problem. But as it looks they don't want cooperate so much.

I am trying get info who was the developer and trying to write him I think, that one was Paul Bennu or like this.
But if you can have ipa file don't delete me, but please write me a message to my mail. And here is the explanation from the SomethinElse:

Marek,

Unfortunately we are unable to provide any support in regards to Papasangre.

Game was developed by our team of developers which are no more, we don’t have development department anymore.
We don’t produce any digital content and are unable to support it either.

In regards to IPA files - we don’t have them and all raw project data has been archived and sent off site.


The last sentence :we don't pproduce digitall content" don't know what they have been thinking but it looks for me that they don't want distribute it.
Now I am afraid to buy any games for IOS because can't be ensured that will be not pulled from the store during September or October.

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What they mean by "don't produce digital content" is that they are a different kind of business now. They make things like marketing videos, they have literally no developers at all, no machines that have any code on them at all. Nothing. To reply to your emails costs them time and money, and to retrieve the old code from the off-site archives would cost them much more time and money, especially as they don't have any developers. They have no reason to spend that time and money in support of an industry that they have decided to have nothing more to do with.

Easiest to picture it as the company who made papa sangre having shut down forever.

However because that isn't strictly true, they still own the code. So even if you get in touch with individual developers who used to work for them, those developers can't just steal their old company's property and give it to you.

So it sounds like game over. Probably still worth contacting people like Paul just in case they have any ideas, but I really would not get your hopes up.

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As far as being afraid to buy games goes -

Even if a game is pulled from the store after only a year, if you paid not much more than the price of a cup of coffee for it then I'd say you've still more than got your money's worth from it.

Compare it the cost and amount of enjoyment from a movie rental for example.

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Hi,
We swill see. I would be happy if I should move it forward and can tell you, that you can still play it. I am not doing only for my own but trying to do it for all our community.
Second think it is principall but I spoke in differend topic.
We will see, if I will be able to do anything or if with my friend will programm new game.

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I'd just give it up. Papasangre is gone and that is that.

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I have to agree with previous posts. The company no longer deals with said software. They've changed focuses. It's a lost cause. Move on. Other apps have suffered similar fates for various reasons.

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Stuff like this is really terrible for game preservation. It's a shame many, many games are literally lost to time because of reasons like this.

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8

Agreed, but there's not much if anything anyone can do.

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Slightly off topic, but I do have to agree about holding off on app store purchases until after the dust settle after the release of iOS 11 and the dropping of 32 bit support.

Other wise you could find you just bought a 32 bit app that won't be moving to 64 bits.

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About app store purchases, as far as I know, Apps that are 32-bit don't Show up in the app store search results anymore.
Haven't tested myself though.

"Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you're doing, you will be successful." (Herman Cain, american businessman)

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11

As great as the games are and as much as this is really a problem as far as how lost ios apps are dealt with is concerned, I do have to agree with Liam and Orco here. Unless Paul says otherwise, but then again he's not the CEO of the company, remember. As I said before in another topic, this company has far more to be concerned about than actual program code, and even the programmers themselves. No doubt they have their games as a fully registered trademark, and as such they probably have copyright agents to deal with the big-name voice actors that voiced the game. This is not a bsc-like situation where we can ask the devs to just hand over the rights to distribute like we did for the audiogames archive. AS I said before, if they wanted to officially allow distribution of the games, all the parties involved would have to agree on it, and they would probably be investing more money into a market that, frankly, they don't want anything to do with anymore. Can the rights be sold off? I.e, the main somethin-else company could, if they're willing, sell off the rights to the games to their development department, and the development department could continue them if they were still interested? Possibly, indeed that's probably a more realistic solution than just letting the games loose into the public internet. But they haven't done that yet, and until they will, nothing more can be done except to contact Paul and ask. I wouldn't expect anything revolutionary though.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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I know that Papasangre was a well rated, popular game, but honestly, are you telling me that there aren't any good games that could take it's place on your iOS device, that you have to go through all this hurly burly for what? a $5 game?

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13 (edited by jack 2017-09-09 00:55:24)

Technically speaking, on the ios audio-gaming front the Papa Sangre series was as full-length as games ever got on that platform especially with binaural audio, but there indeed are many great games out there. The point is that this is not like finding even so much as a windows game lost to time. Apple apps are fair-play protected, ios11 can't run 32bit apps. End of story. If you have the games, continue playing them under your apple id. They can't be distributed across the net though, and even if they could they'd be drm-protected. Even if Papa Sangre and the other games were indeed the most epic audiogames for ios out there, keep in mind that there is still room for revolutions as Oriol works on Audiogame-utils for Swift.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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14

What I don't understand is why Apple can't use the 32-bit compatibility layer on top of 64-bit processors to run 32-bit apps. What's the problem with that?

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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I also do want to point out something that may have been said. When you buy a game or even a song, you are not buying ownership rights for that product. Instead you are gaining usage rights. So this means that a developer is not mortally or legally obligated to continue to maintain a product. For example, I was unable to maintain older software I had created for older versions of windows. The fact is that I did not owe the community anything, but chose to make as much of the software as I could freeware. The devs of Papa Sangre for reasons stated in previous posts can not do so. They are not the first, nor will they be the last developer to close up shop. Enjoy the memories you had of the games, and hopefully you got your money's worth. Do I think it totally sucks? Oh absolutely, but we live in a world where technology evolves, and older or legacy software just won't be able to run.

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When Somethin' Else dropped the games I figured that they were 32 bit and their head game designer retired.
What is more frustrating is they were just about to start selling a iOS game engine that allowed people to make games much easier.

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Phil, you bring up a good point. The engine, last I heard, was open sourced. There you go folks, there's your answer as to whether or not they would open source the games if they could. They open sourced the engine because the dev team had full control and full rights to that project. Not the games. And Liam is right. While you don't have a license agreement on installation of ios products to constantly remind you, hell you don't even have a displayed license agreement on some pc software anymore lol, the point still stands. You're buying usage rights to the software, and when it comes to ios where software is handled via a distribution network that is the app store, yeah, I'd say it's pretty much rentware. Get used to it. It certainly sucks to see possibly the most involved audio games for ios become lost to time, but unfortunately it's the way it is. Ethin, as for the 32bit compatibility layer, well, they can do it. They certainly can. But they don't want to. Apple is a firm believer in futurism whether their customers like it or not. I e, you go along with the new technology, or get trampled by it, nothing in between. The same may not be able to be said about the macs because you still have control over what operating system you run on those, at least more control than ios, but when it comes to IOS that is controlled by Apple and them alone, you're either staying the course or getting squashed by their futuristic changes, and they couldn't give two shits if anyone objects. Headphone jack was gone in the iPhone7, now the home button is gone. The iPhone 8 is almost entirely made of glass, bringing the durability level down some more, and shooting the repair revenue up as far as Apple is concerned. Macbook pro2016 has usb type c without giving the hardware manufacturers enough warning. That's not changing. Apple killed off mag-safe charging in the newest macs, even though it was the very thing they used to rightfully dick over the pc manufacturers for making power cords that, by their nature, brought laptops down to the ground if someone tripped on them. If you wanna talk hypocrisy, there's a prime example. Lol! But you get the idea. Apple is future-thinking, plain and simple. So this comes back full circle to the 32bit destruction. Apple believes that 32bit support is obsolete, by their definition of obsolete at least, and therefore want what is best for them, or what they think is best for the customers. Either deal with that if you continue to use IOS, or get Android if IOS isn't your cup of tea. Again, no in between, except get both of the platforms to play around with. Lol.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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Re post 15 to Liam:
Thanks for this great explanation. It totally makes sense. Many people think they buy something which works forever. This is sadly not the trooth.

Best regards SLJ.
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

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@jack, I consider 32-bit obsolete as well, though I'm certainly not against making an app 32-bit compatible if I must. But I'm usually very hesitant to do so, considering that it's becoming more obvious how 64-bit is the dominant factor and 32-bit is dying out.

"On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!]: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out ?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."    — Charles Babbage.

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20 (edited by shotgunshell 2017-09-10 21:35:46)

My question is, exactly how much money were Something Else allowed to keep from their products? I think they quit because they weren't earning enough from the games they sold to make updating the game every time a new version of IOS comes out worth it. I'm pretty sure the full on 32 bit to 64 bit conversion has something to do with money, but how would removing compatibility for 32 bit give you more money. It seems like a pretty bad idea for business, because not only does it not make a difference in profit, but if anything their finances will plummet because customers will get extremely angry that their older apps that they used every day don't work anymore. It seems like it just screws everyone in the end.

You can follow me on twitter @brogar2000, and my Skype is garrett.brown2014. If you want to follow me on any of these things, please tell me you're from the forum, or else I won't follow you back. Also, it depends on who you are.

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21 (edited by Chris 2017-09-10 21:49:05)

First, Apple does whatever they want. If you don't like that policy, stop buying Apple products and services and go elsewhere.

As far as I'm aware, all the games are 64 bit compatible and should run on iOS 11. The company simply chose to remove them from the App Store and cease development. I suspect they gave up because the blind gaming playerbase is incredibly small. I doubt many sighted people were interested in these games. Also remember that they weren't charging that much for them to begin with. I'd imagine that their sales significantly dropped after a certain number of people purchased the product. They finally realized that it wasn't worth the effort to develop for such a niche market. I hate it as much as everyone else does, but the reality is that companies want to earn profit.

Does anyone have this Papa engine? Rather than complain about the loss of old titles, why doesn't someone use the engine to create more great binaural games? Does anyone know what platforms this engine supports? I'd love to have more binaural audio games on Windows, iOS, Android and macOS.

Grab my Adventure at C: stages Right here.

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22 (edited by jack 2017-09-11 00:40:04)

@Shotgunshell, with regard to your post about Apple and decisions that may screw people over, ask yourself this one question. Have any of Apple's controversial recent decisions ever been motivated by pure logic, and have they been all that ethical, and have they any concern for pleasing all their users? The answer is a most definite no. When Microsoft released Windows Vista out from the gates of hell, that was a disaster, a nightmare waiting to happen, as they didn't give hardware manufacturers enough time to prepare. But the difference between them and Apple is they admitted they were in the wrong, learned from their mistake, at least a little, and released windows 7 way later, when manufacturers were ready. Now let's look at usb type c. I'll imagine that at the release of the Macbook2015, the percentage of usb type c devices was in the single digits. They made a mistake by adding that in with an out with the old, in with the new approach. And no, dongles are not a solution. The very reason Apple hasn't learned from their mistake and added in usb ports is simply because they can make more money through selling dongles. Same with the headphone jack, although they might as well be losing *some* of the revenue now with the cases that contain built-in dongles. Those manufacturers still have to pay Apple for licensing though. So at the end of the day, what does it all come down to? Only one word, profits. And remember, Apple's general market are folks who don't know what 32bit and 64bit is, and couldn't give two shits about it. The people that pick up an iPhone off the shelf and use it, knowing that it *just works* as Apple likes to put it. Not the geeks, at least not primarily. Am I writing them off? Certainly not, as there are certainly good things about Apple just like there are ups and downs of any company. But I'm not afraid to push buttons when it comes to pointing out the drawbacks. But I digress. This being a topic about Somethin-else, let's address these last few posts, shall we?
I don't think it has much to do with sales, more to the point the difficulty of updating so many components grew to be a pretty thankless task, i e, they'd love to be spending time making more games, not updating them to work on the next new annual series of devices. As for 64bit support? Doubt it. That stuff has to be updated manually or it isn't gonna work. Unless they already updated it for 64bit, which at that point it wouldn't work on 32bit only devices.
Chris, in regard to why they quit, I don't think it has much to do with sales, more to the point the difficulty of updating so many components grew to be a pretty thankless task, i e, they'd love to be spending time making more games, not updating them to work on the next new annual series of devices. As for 64bit support? Doubt it. That stuff has to be updated manually or it isn't gonna work. Unless they already updated it for 64bit, which at that point it wouldn't work on 32bit only devices.

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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@Post22 The post was mainly asking in regards to the business, not the consumer. In the eyes of a businessmen, I would assume that stripping 32 bit compatibility wouldn't have any advantages. Did they do this for profit or was opinionated?

You can follow me on twitter @brogar2000, and my Skype is garrett.brown2014. If you want to follow me on any of these things, please tell me you're from the forum, or else I won't follow you back. Also, it depends on who you are.

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if you have your phone or Ipad jailbroken you can use appcake to get the games.

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25 (edited by jack 2017-09-11 03:40:05)

Uh, right. But whether you bought the games or not, they'll obviously eventually stop working for good. Within a few software versions, I'm sure. Keep in mind that the games, as unfortunate as this is, are not, and cannot be officially declared abandonware. So getting it on any non-regulated app store is not possible according to the letter of the law. The good news is that this is not yet another Bavisoft, as the company is at least being upfront and honest with us.
@shotgunshell Well, it could actually make financial sense for Apple's benefit. A lot of 32bit apps are getting pulled. They're being converted to 64bit, or becoming lost to time if a dev loses interest. A lot of folks using 32bit devices will lose access to their apps. And guess what that means? More revenue for Apple from purchases of the iPhone1000, I mean 8, or any other new 64bit device that you don't have to vomit up $1000 for. Lol!

I'm the only adventure at c: master hahahaha I have unlocked just about everything!

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