2017-08-14 17:36:52

I'm testing out a game which uses a google capcha system and I'm confused.
it does have an audio alternative which is good, however at first the audio alternative did not work. I hit the @play@ button and nothing happens, even when I download the sound file as aan mp3 the file is completely empty no sound in it at all.

I send the developers an in game message since its possible if they don't have any blind players the system is broken,
however I go  today to see what is happening and suddenly the audio works, hurrah! (even if I did have to solve about five of the stupid things, they were at least audible).

then however for no reason the same thing happens again, no sound.

Is there a problem with google capchas. Oh, and no I am not using firefox or webvision, google should provide an accessible alternative anyway and there is one, it just doesn't work for some reason, or at least it works some of the time and not others which is crazy, and makes offering feedback to developers rather difficult.

bloody capchas! the things should be made illegal!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-14 17:45:28

Agreed, especially know that there are systems available to defeat them.

Although it isn't free, and I think it should be, I avoid the whole captcha issue by using Captcha Be Gone. It's not often that I need it, but when I do it has always gotten me past the captcha will little fuss.

2017-08-14 17:53:31

I actually asked Q about a pay as you go system, aka, pay a few bucks for a good supply of captcha solving attempts rather than monthly or yearly, but he said that wouldn't be a reliable revenue to keep the service up. I guess he does have a point, people could play, rarely encounter captchas, then it'd be a few years before they pay again. I guess a stable revenue may be required if we don't want the service to go the way of Webvisum and Solona.

2017-08-14 18:04:10

Okay this is getting even more confusing.
I now go and try the game  and this time the audio works,  I get an audio file playing which tells me "we're sorry but we can't access your request because your network is sending other security information" or something like that.

I believe the audio worked because I restarted my pc, which is insane, however god knows what this stupid securiety thing is.

I have always found google's capcha system to be about the only usable one I've seen, but this is just bizarre! also if I don't hear back from the games' developers soon I don't know what I'll do.

Btw, what is capcha begone/
I tried solona, but everytime I sent the screenshot I was told by the person at the other end "there is no capccha" and even had my account threatened with closure, indeed I never got solona to solve  one single capcha which was odd indeed.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-14 18:19:56

And of course can I find a contact address for google or any information about this stupid security thing? Can I buggery, and I've heard  back from the games' developers, either via in mail or chat and they don't seem to have a private message link.
So yet another inaccessible game for us that could be accessible if it weren't for these stupid security measures.

What is really bad about this one is that theoretically there is! an accessible alternative which the site has already implemented there is just the small problem that it doesn't bloody work!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-14 18:33:23

@Jack

Yup! And at less than $40 per year it's not like it's going to break the bank.

@Dark

Captcha Be Gone is a browser add on that solves captchas. They have versions for Internet Explorer, Firefox, and I believe Chrome.

https://captchabegone.com/

2017-08-14 18:37:13

Thanks orco I'll have a look.

One thing I can't be sure of with this google business is whether the devs are making background changes. I suspect as much, so I've sent another in game mail. It is odd indeed, especially the bit about security.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-14 19:21:50

Well I've tried capcha begone, as if it does what it says on the tin it should be a good thing indeed.
however I'm severely disappointed thus far.
I tried it on the two versions of the google capcha. On one it said @capcha not found@ on the other it just said @solving capcha please wait@ for a very! long time. and did nothing, just sat there (and by long time I mean about five minutes on the one page).

I hope I haven't wasted my money on this thing.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-14 19:34:14

You may want to ask Q about it then, report the page as one that doesn't have a solvable captcha. Funny, as I always found Google captchas to have the checkbox that says I am not a robot, and when you check it, it verifies you. Apparently this one uses the way the button was clocked or pressed to verify you. Automated programs will hit the switch in an unusual way compared to how human either left click it or press space.

2017-08-14 19:52:10

Hmmm, who is Q?

I have seen those checkbox capchas, but this one isn't like that. There are two versions, version1 or a version 2. Version 2 is the default but I tried 1.

Version 2 it would not detect at all, version 1 it just sits there forever saying "please wait" and fails to solve anything.

www.google.com/recaptcha was the url I was directed to for help, though it certainly did not do.

I also tried it on two of the web game voting sites which are notorious for having stupid captchas, one it didn't work with at all, one, a maths question it solved without an issue, so thus far results are one out of three for captcha begone, well technically one out of three and a half given that it wouldn't work with either rversion 1 or version 2 with the google recaptcha on flight of dragons game.


I hope captcha solving rates are higher than this in the future.

I will now go and cheer myself up by trying out billy vs snakemen, which is an online browser game I've always wanted to play but never been able to sign up for thanks to the lovely captcha, and we'll see if captcha begone can improve its odds.

Btw, if anyone is interested the game in question was flight of dragons. A torn mod but one with an interesting emphasis on crafting and exploring rather than battling, it had more npcs than most plus I like dragons and quests.

Here is a link if someone wants to try the game

And yes its my referral link, I wa shoping to post about this properly in new releases if the audio captcha thing can be solved but since I've not heard from the devs I don't know if that will be happening now.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-14 21:43:27

Besides the omnipotent jerk who pestered Picard and his crew, I believe that the Q refered to here is the developer of Captcha Be Gone.

I've had Captcha Be Gone sit and do nothing only once and it turned out to be a server problem that was fixed the following day.

I also believe you have a 30 day money back guarantee so if you find Captcha Be Gone doesn't work for you, you should be able to get your money back.

You might also want to try Remola, it's another Captcha solver but works on a percaptcha rather than a timed subscription method. You buy X number of captcha solves for Y dollars or pounds.

I've never used it myself so I can't report on how well it works or not.

2017-08-15 01:23:02

Well I tried captcha begone on another one and it worked. However ironically flight of dragons, the game that caused the problem in the first place now have fixed  audio captcha alternative, either that or it was a server side issue with google.
I'll try captcha begone on it since it might be that it was not displaying correctly while I was getting that silly error message, goddness knows.

Since I've paid for a year of this I might as well see how it works, as I am always running into captchas, especially in  browser games, I was just disappointed on its effectiveness on the first few I tried.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-15 01:51:56

Yeah, I've encountered situations where error or other extraneous messages hide or make a mess of the text I'm interested in. It really gets challenging if the messages are displayed in a way that's invisible to the screen reader, then you have no idea why what your reading sounds like alphabet soup. Fun, fun, fun.

2017-08-15 08:21:41

I haven't found that sort of problem, but as I said a couple of captchas just plane didn't work.
this one on flight of dragons seems to be coming and going.
  the audio alternative worked no problem. Today it worked, but required multiple solutions (at least four), and then stopped working again.

I assumed that it started! working because the admins got my in game mail and solved the problem, but now I am genuinely not sure, I've sent another mail but I'm about ready to give up with this one.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-15 11:26:15

I haven't really tried any of  visual assistant aps yet.  was tempted by tap tap see, but put off by the problem of having  a limited number of opportunities dependent upon a blind person's ability to take photos.

I certainly wouldn't mind paying for that type of thing, it's what I get disability bennifit for after all, however I don't especially like the idea   having to essentially be charged for my lousy photo taking skills big_smile.
It's something I probably need to investigate.

As it stands for Captchas I suspect flight of dragons is just an unreliable implementation, though I'll try the game a little more before I give up entirely.

For google captchas generally they have usually been the best available in the past, indeed I can think of some occasions like in bloodwars where I have recommended google captchas to developers who use inaccessible ones as an alternative, the problem is I can't think of any other sites that use a google recaptcha system that I can compare flight of dragons to, indeed as I've not been playing browser rpgs for a while I've seen less by way of captchas in general.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-15 15:13:55 (edited by Orko 2017-08-15 15:16:24)

I would use Be My Eyes or Be Specular over TapTapSee for help with captcha solving mainly because you get such mixed results with TapTapSee, where you can ask a specific question with the other two apps, and they are all free.

I hate audio captchas and just ignore them and use Captcha Be Gone on the video captcha instead. The audio is often so heavily processed that it can be quite difficult to understand what is being said. Not to mention that, like Dark, I've found that audio captchas are hit and miss as to whether they'll work or not.

2017-08-15 15:43:21

@Tjt, I'll have to check some of these assistant programs out if indeed they work as you suggest.

@orco, google's audio alternative has for the most part been quite easy to understand, at least accept for one notable occasion when it wasn't and there was a huge outcry until it got fixed.

if you go to www.google.com/recaptcha you can play a sample of the audio which actually  not hard to hear in this case.

I suspect in flight of dragons the problem is either that the developers have been tinkering with the thing, or the implementation itself is buggy, which might also explain why captcha begone isn't working on it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-15 16:31:36

I remember the last time Google captchas were legitimately hard to understand was in 2012 when the numbers had a lower volume than the background noise did . Now, it has almost the same amount of background noise but the numbers are way easier to hear. When the server functions, that is.

2017-08-15 17:24:14

I think audio captchas should be a text question that you have to answer, it becomes audio when your screen reader reads the question.

2017-08-15 17:40:45

apparently the reason people do not use text questions in captchas  that those are easier for spambots to answer.

In terms of preventing spam registrations they don't seem to do much good, though in many online games and voting sites they are used to prevent people botting, which  is one reason they use audio, i.e. sound files rather than text.

Okay if it works, is understandable and quick to do, but not if it doesn't.
I've given up with flight of dragons entirely for this reason though I did leave them a message that if they want the game to be accessible they can contact me.

'Jack, yep, I remember those google captchas with the background noise, those were a pest, but were possible if you listened, the ones I really! hated were the ones where you'd have a heavily distorted voice that was literally impossible to hear, very obviously a system created by people who did not have to use it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-15 19:07:29

Yeah, the ones with background noise could be gotten with some careful listening, but the ones with garbled voices were just as bad if not worse than the video captcha.

If you really feel the need for a captcha, the best approach I've seen is a text captcha that can only be seen by a screen reader because the background and text were both the same color. It could be put on the page right next to the captcha so it created a captcha that could be solved by pretty much anyone.

2017-08-16 09:02:59

Again though Orco, the problem is a bot script could still pickup the text from the page even if it were the same colour as the background.
That is why they use distorted images that won't respond to ocr.

on the other hand, I don't exactly see how a bot could scan a sound fileand gather what numbers were needed for the captcha (if someone could write such a sophisticated bot, they probably wouldn't be wasting their time making a bot program anyway), which makes all  inaudible and distorted things doubly stupid.

Interestingly enough, Flight of dragons and the hole captcha system is built  on code taken from an earlier version of the torn city game.
Torn city went through several captcha systems to prevent bots, some of which weren't accessible but the devs fixed, and since Torn city is probably the only game I've ever seen where players try to actively swindle newbies (someone tried to persuade me to sell a rare item for a pittance of its value), I could see players there using bots. But hay the game is all about crimes anyway big_smile.

Flight of dragons is built on earlier torn code though with a few interesting editions, in particular a far more interesting exploration system, though it seems the implementation of the dodgy google captchas is all their own work.

Just for some contrast I also tried out blade of eternity the other day as well, also built on old torn code, though again with heavy modifications (especially in crafting), and that one doesn't have any captchas at all so goodness knows.

As usual the moral seems to be while small devs are always nicer than huge companies, even some small dev teams can be less than accommodating big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-16 14:54:58 (edited by Orko 2017-08-16 14:58:02)

I realized that after writing that message, duh. In that case, the best captcha is no captcha at all.

The original idea of a captcha was to create a test that only a human could solve, but as technology improves, there will, and has, come a time when the captcha test can no longer make that determination, making them pointless.

2017-08-16 15:43:03

Well you'll get no arguments from me on that score, though btw, interestingly enough just after this I saw a game with a text captcha, so obviously they do exist.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-08-17 22:57:50 (edited by Orko 2017-08-17 23:19:02)

While just playing around I wrote a text captcha in Pure Basic that generates random math problems like What is three times six. If you use your arrow keys you'll notice that there are no numbers in the text of the math question. The captcha asks that you answer in words rather than numbers, so the answer to the above question is eighteen. Also it randomply chooses the function so you might get an addition, or a subtraction, or a multiplication, or division, or a percentage problem. It also randomly chooses the phrasing of the question, so one time it might ask what is twenty one divided by seven, but the next time it asks, how many time does seven go into twenty one? To make answering the question easier it restricts answers to integers, no fractions or decimals. It also generates problems that can be solved in your head, nothing so complex or with numbers big enough to need a calculator. A short but interesting project.

---

A note for those that might be interested, despite being more than a year old, Captcha Be Gone is still selling at the introductory prices. You can either subscribe for $3 per month or $33 per year. I don't know what the regular price will be, if he ever switches to charging it.

Also, be aware that they do not send a subscription reminder before charging your chosen payment method. I just got a receipt, thanking me for renewing for another year. Although I would have just let it ride, it would have been nice to get a notice ahead of time just in case I had decided not to renew.