I feel like this is something that should be addressed here, if there's nowhere else where I can put this, maybe I can put it here and attract attention somewhere. I don't know. But I feel this needs to be stated somewhere.
I backed code 7
on kickstarter, with the understanding that there will be a blind friendly version of the game. It looked promising, like something that would be very easy to accessify, and then contacted the developer about it. They were very, very enthusiastic, which I applaud; they even made a blind friendly version of the game's demo.
So I decided to keep my money in it.
Fast forward to today. The game was just released, without a blind friendly version. The developer said that the blind friendly version would come out "later". Now I feel like I was played, because there is no date or anything. I am extremely disappointed, because I have effectively purchased a game that I cannot play at all. I guess the lesson here is that if you promise something, do it at launch. I feel even emptier inside because the developers built up the excitement to fever pitch, and now I can't play simply because I'm blind. If I had known, and hadn't backed the game, I never would have dealt with this, but it's always nice when a mainstream developer thinks of us. However, it's not nice when they say they're going to do something, and don't deliver on it. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
So as much as I fervently hope that a blind version will come out, I do not maintain any hope of this happening. (and he also did the same thing to the germans, promising a german version and not delivering, but this is a minor point since we are audiogames.net). Just my 2 cents.
Wait what? A german version is a minor problem because we are audiogames.nett? This comment is so stupid I don't even know what to answer on this.
And secondly, he did say that a blind friendly version will come out, so where is your darn problem? I just don't get why some blind people just stress out on every little thing they find, just because you have to wait a little longer.
People these days.
The entitlement oozing from this post is astounding. The game only came out today, just relax. If it had been, say, a year and still nothing, I could understand. Posts like this are why people are hesitant in dealing with the blind community.
It's actually really simple. If you launch something, and have pre-order financing through it, then make it accessible to the backers that made it possible. The reason I'm mad is that I paid real money on this understanding, and it did not come to fruition. It's like saying "OK, you can preorder this computer, but it has no CPU when it launches, only for you and a few other people, even though you preordered it on the understanding that it would have a CPU. It'll have one "later"."
the german comment was my error. I apologize about that one, and that didn't come out the way I wanted it to, so I'm sorry. But I do not apologize about the thread as a whole.
If that was only day ago, then it's not worffe doing something like posting this topic. How ever, if it was even a month past I should have taken some auction.
I've seen something like this too many times to count. The promises made weren't accessibility oriented, but after a while it becomes clear that the promises were made as a tactic to garner any funding they can with no real intention to keep those promises. The up and down side of this is that a developer can only pull this deception only once because after that people begin to become wise to the lie and won't support them anymore.
Case in point is Steam Punk Neverland and Watch Tower Chronicles, how many of you prepaid or reserved your copies before it was released and are still waiting for them after more than a year? At this point do you really expect to get the games you paid for?
And how about all those unfinished stories out there? Games where you only got the first chapter with promises of the rest of the story to come later, and then the developer quits the audio game market leaving us with just the first chapter. Examples include, Chillingham, Time Adventures, Blindside, etc.
The feeling is that developers think that we are such a small part of the over all market that even if we all raised our voices in protest, nobody would hear us. So they get away with it.
I myself avoid the whole question by not funding any kickstarter or go fund me campains or anything along those lines and don't preorder anything. I just wait patiently for the product to become available, then buy it if I decide I want it.
Sadly, that's the issue with kickstarter in general. It's pretty impressive that they made the game. Kickstarter is starting to become for empty promises, so finding this thread doesn't surprise me. It's been an issue of broken kickstarter promises in one regard or another. I agree with the posts saying that it has only been a day and just wait it out, but I also understand that if you put something like that out, and people pay money for something, you do have to deliver.
9 (edited by hamada 2017-08-11 23:43:15)
Oh [wow]! I was really surprised when I sau that. the game has accessability already. the devs have put it on. I am playing code7 the new episode. with speach and everything.
make sure from the thing before you accuse others guys. all what you need is press alt pluse v when you get in to the main menu, and speach will be turned on.
you probably wana apologize about the thred now, when you realise that accessibility exists.
I am sure not many people know about this alt +v thing, but it's already been told in the main topick of the game.
It's a problem with crowdfunding in general. Remember that you are paying for a product that doesn't exist, and if something happens to it and your money is not refunded, you're fucked. that doesn't mean crowdfunding is bad (the Pebble Smartwatch was funded on Kickstarter, for instance) but it is a risk you are taking. As to the original point of the thread, I second what people have said here.
[wow], so these guys are sighted guys who I think wanted this to come out, the blind version takes a bit more work, probably more things to do.
And guys there are no shortcuts, no synths, its all audio.
On that note from working with sonnar, which is still working, not always notifying me on releases on whats going on, etc, do any of you realise how much actually goes in behind the sceens.
Now I can understand your frustrations having been on the user end, hell I was a pirate once in the early 90s when it was cool, I understand user pains as well as players.
But if you want broken promises look at bavisoft, look at james north, and look at all the other companies bar one that is that failed because life got in the way.
When I was 20 I thought I had a lot of time.
I am now 35 years old.
And gaming and such rocks.
Life doesn't, in fact sometimes life can fill up a lot.
One thing the general user thinks is that we guys do this for our jobs.
And while some do the majority don't, we have lives and jobs and other such things offline.
Or we are trying to keep cash coming in and the like for the future.
Thats why audiogamehub has subscriptions and that sort of things.
Fact is this company is barely starting out.
Now look at breakerbox, eventually they come through maybe a bit sloppy with their releases and the like but most of the time the stuff is top notch.
Point is, if you want things to be quick, then expect a quickish game.
Most of this new stuff is experimental, if it wasn't it would be another game clone or clone of ultrapower or something.
Now I do realise some devs and some have shown that their communications skills can be less to be desired and thats a problem but otherwise, most are generally good.
Oh and does anyone go on at draconis or gma to see where their next release is and they hardly communicate.
If anyone should be going on at anyone its valve and steam so we can use it fully without mucking about I don't have time to play steam games not even time to fiddle.
The only thing that was released today was some sort of intro, none of the four episode that make up the main body of the game have been released, but you can preorder those.
Me? No thanks, I'll wait for it to be released and there is actually a product to deliver. While I'll miss out on any preorder discounts that may be offered, I'll still have my money when for whatever reason the game never gets past the intro or episode 1. Just like Blindside, Chillingham, Time Adventures, and etc.
the only thing i found annoying is the game uses the default windows tts
One proverb which I've seen the truth of proved again and again evil shouts, good whispers.
Especially in a small community like this one, and especially when people have a lot of ignorance, stupidity and yes even down right evil to deal with on a dayly basis, it becomes truer than ever.
of course, in the case of unfulfilled dev we're not so much dealing with evil as sloppy planning but the same holds true.
Have there been a lot of occasions unfulfilled dev promises? Yes most certainly, going right back to max shrapnel, final defender and castle quest back in 2006, this is why several devs then stopped offering any sort of assurances announcements at all until something was good and ready (david greenwood is a primary example).
There are however plenty of other examples of games that have come out, or received promised access changes no problem. Adventure to fate (in both respects), a dark room and its sequel, zero site extended operations, the bockerano daibuken 3 translation project etc etc.
And yet what is it that people remember?
I'll say for myself on the occasions I've financially backed projects, if those projects did! go belly up in terms of access (star traders anyone), I got my money returned no trouble.
So, yes, you will always get devs who announce something and make good on it, however you equally get devs who produce good things, or indeed add accessibility to existing games after promising they will do so.
I did not personally back code7, but this was because I was getting married at the time and trying to save money, however I might well be buying the games in the future, so to this one I say hurrah, and urge anyone who wishes to buy it! Also, where is the topic in new releases if indeed one just needs to hit alt in the game to get speech?
he's talking about the prologue having speech. that's been around a long time.
The first episode which came out today still doesn't have speech, although it was supposed to.
and as far as david greenwood and such, I believe that is the right way to handle it. Don't make promises at all, if you don't think you can keep them.
I have to agree with Crashmaster and Dark particularly. Patience is the key here, ladies and gentlemen.
I think all things considered, this isn't the worst kickstarter offense in the history of kickstarter most certainly. While it is questionable that this happened, I think I must also agree it's worth waiting a few months to see what happens. If nothing else, if this is a big deal for those of you who backed this, take this is a lesson as to why backing crowd funding efforts is risky. Especially if the reputation of the dev in question is unknown. Reputation most certainly is the most important currency. I've definitely heard of more questionable situations when it comes to videogame devs doing crowd funding. Too much can go wrong, and when it does, it's bad for both the dev in question and the backers. Some devs handle the situation well. Others... Well... not so well. Let's see what the dev's next move is.
19 (edited by kevin.glaap 2017-08-12 08:20:23)
don't worry. The blind friendly version is on its way. It'll come in an update in a few weeks at the latest.
We're just two people and don't have the capacity to release everything at once.
We've been trying to communicate this through our Kickstarter updates for several months now, where we stated several times that both the german and the blind friendly version will come out a few weeks later.
If you start the game on Windows you can already see that the initial programming is there by pressing "CTRL+V", but not everything is working yet.
I'm really sorry that you have to wait a few more days, but we want everything we release to have a certain quality level and that just needs some more polishing.
We'd like to work together with the audiogames.net community in perfecting the experience as we did with Episode 0.
I hope you understand that this is just a misunderstanding.
We're not some evil corporation, trying to cheat you out of your money
We genuinely want to make this work, we even met with the accessibility group here in our city to get their feedback. We hear your community and we want to have a proper version, that is tested and polished.
And to be fair: We DID explicitly say in the last two Kickstarter updates that the German and blind-friendly versions will not be finished until release. It was not just a release surprise
Thank you all for understanding
Zein from Goowolf Studio
@Orko: Have you ever got promises that the stories of Chillingham, Time adventures and Blindside will continue in a future release? It's quite normal that a story ends so it can continue later on, if the developer or writer feels like continue the story later on. But I have never seen any promises. Why should a story be totally finished? I think it's better there is a possibility that it could continue with an open ending.
Regarding Code7: I thought the previously released speech function just could be used in the new release. I look forward to get the accessible version. Yes, we got told from the very beginning that the accessible version won't be released the same day as the mainstream version...
no, we were told well after the KS campaign ended that the accessible version wouldn't come out the same time. And by then, it was too late.
I'm sorry if I keep harping on this and not letting it go, but we really have no proof that anything's going to happen until it does.
23 (edited by Lirin 2017-08-12 12:52:18)
Why people are doing this? just why? While I can understand everyone who backed the campaign and is expecting the game to be playable sometimes it needs extra work and backing something is just trusting someone. I am pretty sure they will work on it as much as possible so just wait patiently.
24 (edited by ideamonster 2017-08-12 13:48:36)
I understand you're upset that you can't play the game right now, but you have to cut us some slack here. Back in September we had to estimate the game's development almost a year in advance. That's what estimates are, they are not set in stone. In March we saw that we will not make it to the planned release date in April. We postponed the ENTIRE game, not only your version, to July. Then we had more delays. It was not until June, where we decided to postpone the german and blind-friendly version until after release, because it was just not doable for us. This is how game development works. Some things are just not up to us, even if we try to make it happen.
We promise you, the accessible version will come. It just takes time.
And if you back something on Kickstarter it is always a trust investment, you will never be sure anything is going to happen until it does. You have to be aware of that, when backing a game. Just remember that for future campaings.
As for us, we try to keep our promises, because it's important to us.
@harrylst: I'd seriously recommend just being paitient. How do you think the sighted community would feel about a Hero's call when they discover that an audio version got made first before their graphical version? It's like this here. Think of it as the opposite. They're bringing it out for the majority first, and are still going to implement the blind friendly version, but as, basically, a post launch patch. This, these days, is how games work. I can understand why you are upset, but goodness, this is one day after launch. If itw as a year after the whole game had been launched, then yes. But it's a day, and they are considering accessibility still. Or would you rather that devs stopped doing stuff for us because we're too impatient? That is seriously what's required in this community, patience. Heck, a Hero's Call didn't make the June release date. Am I angr? No, I'm going to wait for as long as possible because I know it's coming. Same with this game here, Code7. If accessibility is coming, then seriously that's all that matters at this point?