I recently started playing A Dark Room and the Ensign again.
I wanted to relive what hapened when these games were made accessible, and re-read what the dev had put on the subject. However, I have noticed, that his big post about the blind community seems to ahve vanished from his website. In fact, his website is no longer a blog and seems to have completely changed, but it is still, definitely, him, that much I can tell. I think he once had reddit but even the posts on that are gone.
I don't know what's happening now, and it'll be a shame if some of this info has been lost to time again. At least for now we've still got the games.
He's probably discovering that you can't make a living in the audio games market place because it's so small, and is moving to the main stream market place instead.
I have heard that crap so many times, and while I will grant that the audiogame market is a small one, and that a dev cannot make a living solely based on that community, what pisses me off is the attitude that just because they are making mainstream games instead of specific audio ones, they cannot code for both. There is no reason why he or she cannot incorporate accessibility into mainstream games that they do make a living off of. Why can't devs program for the mainstream market, but incorporate accessibility into their code? This is especially true for huge companies with huge developer teams. You'd think with hundreds of coders, they could figure out a way to add accessibility, and because of the number of coders, it shouldn't be too much hassle. And for developers who have coded audiogames in the past, if he or she once programmed a game for the blind, and he or she has chosen to program mainstream games for the world, why not continue to implement access to us as well? I find the laziness and overall attitude baffling, since most programmers I know are total nerds who would relish a challenge like that.
I don't have an answer to the "what happened," question, but I will say that Dark Room is a mainstream game. The fact it's accessible is due to an interested blind player contacting the author, which is something I wholeheartedly recommend. There doesn't need to be such a big divide between mainstream titles and audio games, and it's a shame one still exists.
[wow]! I think you need a name change, with all that hate coming out of you your name just doesn't fit.
And why direct all that love at me? Was I the one who convinced them to switch to mainstream game development and abandon the audio game market? No. In fact, I'm not even sure my proposed answer is correct, it was just a guess.
If you feel the need to bitch, bitch at the developers that are the cause of the problem, not at the messenger. Besides, I never said that what I posted was the answer, I was just proposing a possibility.
Sheesh! I think its time to abandon this thread and leave you people to it. I don't mind talking about the problem and ideas that might help resolve it, but I'm not going to follow it down the road you appear to be on.
[wow], post 3, take it easy... Those games are mainstream games which has been made accessible...
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D
[ a-t ]@J love, when your throwing around words such as "that crap" you are getting pretty close to flaming, it is quite possible to express opinions without recourse to personal attacks, which is the way to cause all kinds of trouble among forum users including yourself.
@Orco, while I grant the provocation here, at the same time the same very much applies to you lets keep personal attacks and insult throwing off the forum please.
Okay, moderation over.
As regards the debate in question, it is actually true that A dark room and The ensign had access fixes built in, and in the games themselves there is enough information about this including several podcasts by amir, the developer even if the information is gone from his blog.
As for the mainstream games debate, like anything else it is a fine detail here.
Adding audio accessibility to a huge 3d graphics monster of the kind beloved by the major companies would be expensive and likely something said greedy companies wouldn't attempt for prophet reasons anyway. However, independent games that already are going well towards being accessible, games like A dark room and The ensign, king of dragon pass or adventure to fate are much different proposition, since in those cases not only is adding not usually an issue, but also the amount of support a developer can get from the community, given that the developers are! independent and likely will have a smaller user base anyway will make a difference.
previously this was only true of online browser games and muds, however now we're increasingly seeing it on Ios and Android, whether with text games or interactive audios.
So accessible mainstream games? probably not. Accessible independent games quite possibly.
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)
In no way was I displeased with Orko. I'm displeased with the big company developers. In no way was I flaming him at all. Now, to the debate, you said:
"Adding audio accessibility to a huge 3d graphics monster of the kind beloved by the major companies would be expensive..."
These companies probably already have massive sound libraries and all sorts of other things that they use from project to project at their disposal that they aren't going to have to spend any extra money on. They probably already have most of what they need, and it's mostly going to be a matter of implementing it correctly. And I bet that it would be a whole hell of a lot less expensive to a huge company than it is to a one or two-man indi development team. Yet the two-man team is more likely to try than the company that makes millions and actually has the ability to add fixes a hell of a lot quicker, with less hassle.
As to the argument that it's a pain in the ass or that it slows down release, I bet that it would be far less of a pain in the ass for a company with 500 coders versus an indi team of two, and with that many people putting their heads together to add things, it shouldn't take as long as a single dev or a two-man team trying to implement fixes, so if release gets slowed, with so many coders it should be marginal at best. But again, the team of two is more likely to try than the team of 500 or more. Go figure.
And my favorite one that I have heard before, that devs don't know about accessibility features or implementation: What a crock. Really? Any serious computer programmer who actually has a love for it is also going to be a serious nerd, one who loves to learn new things, and would enjoy the unique challenge and the opportunity to expand their knowledge. One of my really good friends is a software dev. When I first started talking to him, his website was not very accessible at all. When I presented the issues to him, within a week his site was totally accessible to Jaws. I'd get Skype messages in the middle of the night saying "I've added this, please test," or some such. The point is, the challenge, the ability to learn something new, to expand his horizons, was pleasing to him.
Se the recent announcements from EA about madern. Now this is a big step. THere's a topic about this and it sas that they are going to be implementing some stuff post launch. NOw that's awesome. While it's very different from A Dark Room, I think we have games like A Dark Room, King of Dragon Pass, and Skullgirls to thank as I think they have been talking, a little, about accessibility. We also keep on contacting devs. I unfortunately have hit a massive roadblock at my magic the gathering, Staneless have said they need approval before they can just add anything to the UI, even if it's just a menu. So yes, we still have a while to go but it's getting better, very slowly. It's like an incremental game ala dark room and crafting kingdom. You start small but every step you take, may eventually bring new thigns. Of course, there's surprises and shocks along the way -- for instance, EA is the latest crazy shock for me.