Hi,
What are the exclusive games for leasey, just out of curiosity?

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There are 4 games. Treasure Troll and Truffle Troll are a pair of 2 related side scroller adventure games, made by Philip for Hartgen. The third game, from what I've heard, is a full-blown farm simulation similar to games on ios like hayday that were otherwise unplayable. The 4th one is a Tetris/Bejeweled kind of game called Matchmaker, written by Damien. People have been complaining why there is no Leasey for Nvda, but that just isn't possible. They are commercializing a product, yet it must remain open source as for gpl, which they as a commercial company aren't cool with. Which is fine for them, obviously they only cater to a specific group of customers. What would be more practical would be to make the games center stand-alone, maybe update the games to support more than just the Jaws api as it seems. I honestly don't know the first thing about how these games are operated besides how to run them as described in the manual, because they don't come with the trial version of Leasey. But they do hook directly into Jaws, that much I know, for why would they make games for a system that directly hooks into Jaws that makes you have to unload Jaws to play them? I proposed a proper offer to Bryan of what I would pay if the games central were stand-alone, about $60 give or take for those 4 games. I've yet to hear from him, but I'm sure it's a relief for him to get a message like that as opposed to all the hatemail he's gotten about why there isn't Leasey for Nvda and why the games central isn't free. Um, if you're gonna win him over on this, asking to make the games central free is never the way to go. You make a proper business proposition on the matter and then you can talk if he gets back to you, but only then. Indeed, I'm sure if I made a deal with each dev, i e, could I pay this much for a copy of this game stand-alone, they would consider it, realizing the exclusive situation the games are in. Unfortunately, I doubt they'd be legally allowed to carry through with such a deal, or would they ? Aren't those games technically also the property of Hartgen as well, so resale by another party wouldn't be allowed? Or would these devs still have just as much rights to the game as Hartgen does? Can't be sure.

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They are:

  • Matchmaker - a matching game similar to Bejeweled

  • My Country Place - A farm simulation inspired by Facebook's Farmville

  • Treasure Troll - A game where you as a troll have to catch falling pieces of treasure

  • Trouble Troll - A game where you, again as a troll, have to keep up with incoming orders for different flavors of ice cream. You have to complete the orders on time and accurately

The problem with these games is that they are all written in BGT which has the keyboard hook conflict with some JAWS users, and they all need a running screen reader to be accessible. Normally I'd just switch to NVDA to play these games but they are all written using the JAWS API so they won't work with any screen reader but JAWS, and if you have the keyboard hook conflict they don't work even with JAWS. Hartgen doesn't care because, as they say, they don't have the keyboard hook problem.

I misspoke earlier, the Leasey games module does not have any of Jim Kitchen's games in it.

And finally, I was successful in finding Q9's registration data, so I can now play it without having to install Leasey or it's games module.

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29 (edited by jack 2017-08-11 23:31:27)

I wonder if there was anything changed in that Leasey version versus the stand-alone version sound-wise.

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30 (edited by jack 2017-08-11 23:35:19)

As for the Jaws Api usage, if I'm understanding this correctly, the games are supposed to speak through Jaws but have no keyhook installed, so getting them to accept keyboard input is a bit of a nuisance. If that's what it is, that's quite ironic since they were supposed to be games playable straight through Jaws. I don't mean that as an offense, just pointing that out considering these games are supposed to be launched through Jaws, and only speak through Jaws. If you put Jaws to sleep, I don't know if it will still speak when using the games. In the case, the games would be speechless. Then again, I could be wrong. I haven't tried the Jaws-specific games myself.

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I don't know if this will work, but I'm going to try it because I'm interested in both the Match Maker and My Country Place games.

I just doenloaded VG Storm's Adventure at C and noted that it has an option to install or uninstall the hook for JAWS. I'm curious if this hook is global in that it would benefit other games or if it only works for the Adventure at C game.

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Probably isn't universal. True, you could keep AAC running to keep the keyhook going, but that would be sacrificing more cpu power if you plan to play other games. What there needs to be is a bgt script/executable that, when launched, will install the keyhook universally. When the game is done being played, you can simply quit that executable via task manager. Better yet, assign a system-wide keyboard command to install/uninstall the keyhook that you can execute right before and after launching and exiting the program respectively. That could then make the Leasey games play just fine.

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Yeah, that would work, and I'd be willing to pay for it if it worked.

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34 (edited by jack 2017-08-11 23:36:27)

If you mean the universal keyhook manager, that would be free, of course. Now that I mention it, I am attempting that myself. Sure, it would be an extra window in your alt+tab list, but I'd say it worth it, far less annoying than constantly killing your screenreader to play games.

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35 (edited by jack 2017-08-11 23:37:30)

Well, just coded this thing, and looks like it won't do us any good. Looks like the keyhook only applies to the active window, just as I thought. So the answer is no, unfortunately a universal keyhook is not an option, unless we can get it to apply system-wide. The solution would be for Hartgen to add the keyhook into their games.

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I don't mind having to switch to NVDA to play a game that won't play nice with JAWS. For self voiced games or games that can use SAPI, I just configure JAWS to go into suspend mode and all is fine.

For those games that need a screen reader to provide their voice, if they won't work with JAWS, then I just switch to NVDA while playing the game.

So the only real problems are the Hartgen specific games written in BGT and using the JAWS specific API to provide their voice.

From my own discussions with them,Hartgen's view is that since the keyboard hook conflict doesn't affect them, there's nothing to fix. And they'd only entertain having the games rewritten to use the universal text to speech APIs that use SAPI or work with any screen reader would only occur if they decided to release the games module as a stand alone package that doesn't rely on JAWS or Leasey, and frankly with their attitude towards the keyboard hook problem, I just don't see that happening.

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37 (edited by jack 2017-08-11 23:41:25)

Lulu said they have a major game under development, but once that game is well into development stages, they will give some serious thought to a stand-alone games module. Lulu is the head of game design over at Hartgen Consultancy. Anyone who wants proof, here's the sourcecode. When using Jaws, without the Keyhook installed, you will need to use the passthrough command to down arrow to initiate keyhook, which by default is insert+3. Once the keyhook is initiated, you can happily arrow your way through the menu with no problem, but try launching another game that doesn't have the keyhook installed, and it won't work.
#include "dynamic_menu.bgt"

void main()
{
show_game_window("keyhook manager");
tts_voice voice;
dynamic_menu menu;
menu.add_item_tts("initiate keyhook");
menu.add_item_tts("destroy keyhook");
menu.add_item_tts("exit");
int choice; //stores our choice selections

do
{
choice=menu.run("Keyhook manager ready. Choose an option with the up and down arrow keys, and press enter to select.",true);
if(choice==1)
{
voice.speak("Keyhook initiated.");
install_keyhook();
}
else if(choice==2)
{
voice.speak("Keyhook destroyed!");
uninstall_keyhook();
}
}
while(choice!=0 and choice!=3);

// The user pressed escape or chose the exit option.
exit();
}

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It must be a hell of a game as they've been saying that for about two years now.

I put it in the same basket I put other promised games that never came to be.

In other words, I'll believe it when it actually happens.

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39 (edited by jack 2017-08-12 00:37:35)

Technically this blurb about the ambitious fantasy game was posted in March of 2016, at least as far as the Audiogames forum is concerned. Nevertheless, almost a year and a half, so Orco your point would still stand about it being a considerable wait, although for all we know the game may've been put on the backburner while Leasey had its major update this year.

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40 (edited by Orko 2017-08-12 01:32:15)

Not to dispute what you've said, because there was an update recently, but I'd hardly call a version 3.2 to 3.3 a major update, now if they'd released version 4.0, then I'd call it a major update.

Now that you mention it I do believe the new game is a fantasy role playing game and those things don't happen overnight. Just look at what happened to Entombed, for the longest time there was rumor of a version 2 and there was even an alpha floating around for a while, but the web site has had version 1.20j as the official release for about five years now. Personally I think that development on Entombed died out long ago.

Check your PM

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41 (edited by jack 2017-08-12 02:23:42)

Yeah, not sure what's up with Entombed development, haven't heard much from Jason in the last 2 years give or take. Not much details of this new Leasey title have surfaced as of yet. Check your pm's.

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About NVDA addons having to be open sourced, technically they'd only have to be open sourced if you wanted them included on the NVDA community addons page. You could close source it if you just wanted to host it on your own site, which is what Leacy does anyways. I heard something from someone that a while ago, they said that if people donated enough, they would consider an NVDA addon, but I could be wrong about that, someone will have to remind me.

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@Jack, Check your PMs

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44 (edited by jack 2017-08-12 15:18:25)

Garret, it's not that simple. Nvda addons have to be open sourced as per the gpl. Plain and simple. At least the modules that nvda uses directly. It's why, this isn't an addon but, any game that uses the nvda controller client dll includes a copy of the gnu gpl. Because the dll is licensed under gpl. Btw, check your pm's again, Orco.

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