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@Rastislav
Swamp? I am sorry to say that but this kind of FPS (which isn't really an FPS lol) is the most bad example and it's showing me how the game SHOULDN'T be created. This is of course only my opinion but playig games like swamp I always feel like I am playing totally not accessible game.

Maps are mostly empty, there aren't sounds, ambiences and if there's somethig it's rare. It's suposed to be FPS so audio should be fully 3d (binaural) to give you a true feeling of your surroundings. If I need to count on the numbers like Z and Y axis than sorry, I'll quit from this as fast as possible.

Actually I am waiting for Ghorth's FPS which will be a true 3d experience and this is really how games should be created to move the audio gaming scene on. Most of current games are based on old techniques and and my hope is to have more and more ground breaking games in the future. Examples? A hero's Call, Shadow line, BK3 and even Cyclepath which is just a simple game but Ghorthalon knows how to make games.

No offence here, again, only my opinion and apologies if someone felt offended.

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I do not completely agree with the opinion of Lirin, in such a game as Blindcraft, the kordinate grid is very important.
Survive the Wild is an example of what a 3D game should be.

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If someone will use good engine which could support full Z/Y/Z axis in binaural audio it will be great and ideal for this kind of game.

love is my destiny.
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Hi guys,
so, I see I made a little furore here, so I will bring things to the right form.

First, about mouse and keyboard. I of course wish that all blind players encouter a playing with mouse, it is really fantastic and can not be defeated by any keys, because you do have more accuracy in your hand, than in pressing the keys. Hovever for first, this is mainly my opinion, others can have theyrs and second, I realise that many blind players doesn't have mouse and don't want to spend moneys to it, also when taking in fact, that it is very cheap game controller. So, Blindcraft will be of course ready also for this kind of players, hovever using of mouse will be possible too for those from us, who wants it.

About Survive the wild, this is for another topic, hovever it do have difference from Blindcraft, or few differences. For first, rotation is very important. Of course, normally person doesn't have compass, but he does have eyes. So he don't need to know where is north, south or west, he know where is infront, where left and right. Hovever this is not case of stw. If you rotate yourself in stw to direction different than 0, 90, 180 or 270, you are getting lost, because your orientation is totally broken, and your can not fix it. Sighted person, when he turns to some specific angle always returns back, knowing where to rotate from trees around, from mountains in farness etc. Heh, I want to see you how you find your original direction in stw from direction of tree.
In Blindcraft, this is possible because it do have full 3d. And this is again a difference from STW. I am not talking about audio now, I am talking about the surround. Tree is a good example. Let's compare what do means tree in STW and what do means tree in Bc. If you do have tree in Stw, you can climb there, you can cut it, you can break your bike on it. Hovever, when you climb that tree, you aren't climbing real tree. From programs side, there is an object called tree on the map, and based on this program allows you to make your z coordinate higher, climb on it. Hovever there is no real tree, just one object, with few parameters. For this reason I am calling Stw simulated 3d. When you take tree from Blindcraft, that is not object. I sayd it in other topic already, Bc doesn't know, that there is tree. Because this tree is real, it was constructed in generation process from wood and leaves, and result of this building you see when going near it. So, you can look with your camera to the real crown and see, how it is rotated, next fix your angle with it.

There are more good examples, for example notice simple fact, that when you are moving on landscape of Stw, in most cases you are still on one layer of something, grass, stone etc. and under you is nothing or air. Of course, there are exceptions, for example in parts where you must climb up, for example in mountains. In Blindcraft, this is different, all mountains, all hills and all objects are real, built from tile to tile by generation engine, because you may want to mine in it, and it will be bad, if you fall to the nothingness after digging one block to the ground.

Of course, I am not saying by this that Stw system of map processing, and its system of objects is wrong or bad. Do not take also my words like I want to laud my game or something like it, that really isn't purpose of them. I am saying only in what is Blindcraft different, I think we did have many clons of games before, so I want to show in what is my game new.

@Lirin: I absolutely disagree with you. Swamp is best ambienced game I ever saw, not meaned to amount of tracks, but for reality of ambiences placement, Aprone placed them on many parts, hovever he leaved also places where is quiet or only small wind or something, that is very realistic, in real world you also do not have ambiences everywhere. I think also you played Swamp only few minutes, or you wasn't very successful, because declaration that there is nothing on maps is absolutely out of reality. Not saying this with emotions, it is simple fact. For example map multi1, there is large shop, Gass station, river, bridge crossing it, factory, church, about 5 streets crossing full map and all its mainpoints, what more you want on a map? Of course this is not all, hovever I think it's enough to say, that Swamp maps are full of things, it is not true they are empty. Only reason why you may have this feeling is, that you get lost before the safezone and needed much time to return back, if not get killed. I don't mean this as critique, it is absolutely normal for beginners, do you know how many times have I get lost? Hovever only on beginning, after I adapted myself to map, it was great.
Yeah, and before you get used in map, it feels very large to you, hovever after it it is small, you can believe me. smile

You sayd too, that when playing swamp, you feel as playing inaccessible game. This is also very important thing, I will describe why.  Are you feeling, when you are moving outside, in real world, that you are in accessible surface? No. Also when you say yes, answer is no. Only things, that do accessibility of outside world for you are sounds of trafficlights, sounds of water, voices and steps of people etc. And the same things are only accessible points also in Swamp, that's the reason why I love it. There is no direct navigation as in other games, no inditions what is where, like in reality, only compensation for live people is, that you have zones, so you know, where exactly you are. And there are also beacons, replacing asking of people, hovever similar as you need to ask only once, also in Swamp you do not need beacons when you know, what is where, you are independent. That simple fact, that I run the street, hear bing from church on my left, I turn thatside and find wall, next going around by ellipse, not direct lines as in Stw or redspot to get to the parking place, that all makes Swamp unique for me.

By this last part, I don't want to convince you, that Swamp is also best for you, because it matters opinion, someone wants realistic game, someone sacrifice it for easyer play. Hovever this elliptic movement and minimal accessibility thrusting I want also in Blindcraft. I am not that good programmer like Aprone, but I will try it. If you don't like this game style, then don't play Blindcraft. I will try to make optionable surface for players, who wants easyer play, but I don't know, how successful I will be, because it is really hard to make more things in fully 3d surface at once. Hovever I will keep in mind also players like you, because I want to make Blindcraft for everyone.

And don't scare, my games are never unplayable for accessibility reasons, because I am totally blind too. big_smile

@Visualstudio: thanks for recommendation, I have feeling I heared about these phisic engines, hovever I don't remember for what they were used, I must read something about it on the net. About audio, I am still experimenting with few things, for example hrtfs from Magurp, hovever I am still surprised how also 2d audio works. Someone told here, that 3d game can not be without 3d sound, hovever when I playing bc, I am encountering, that it is not true at all. Only when recording, on it is very hard to tell what is from infront, what from behind etc. hovever when I am playing it directly, I haven't problem with it, because pressing of keys is enough for my brain to recognize accurate location, that you may hear also on my second demo, I assure you, that there was no hole in my building and that I knew all the time what I am doing, also now in survival, when I need cut down the tree for taking a wood, crafting items from it and when I must make place in forest for my house model, I haven't any problems. So for now I am closing audio question for later, I am not excluding there will be situation, where 3d audio will be needed, but it isn't currently, so I will start solving it when I encounter some problems, also for this reason I am using wrappers, so all that is needed to do is modify one file, and full audio system in game is changed. I will also try to solve it after release to make higher playing confort, now I need time to more important stuffs.

Best regards

Rastislav

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Now I'm calm and I wish the developer success.

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OMG so Blindcraft is going to be released at some point?
I always wanted to play minecraft

John Petrucci Fan all the time.
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It might be a tendency for flare to trump overall design in game development, but I've never found a propper 3d audio game to be very accessible at all. It's sort of an uncanny valley thing, where all you have is HRTF, and it is just realistic enough to be confusing and make things like inaudible walls all the more troublesome. The way Swamp does it, IMO, communicates much better than any of the HRTF-enabled games I've played, even though most of the latter include spoken messages to try and help.
In real life, if it can be helped, we don't ever navigate by sound alone—there's texture and proprieception and the way the air moves, smells, and the way sound is affected by the environment (something I have yet to hear in a game, probably because the calculations are kinda extreme). 3d sound alone changes nothing but to distinguish the y/z directions. That's great and all, but so far, it's been a gimmick rather than especially useful.
I'm walking around as I type this, between 2 rooms and a hallway. I have neither taken my hands away from the phone, nor ran into  anything, except the one moment I realized I was doing what I was talking about and so my knee picked that moment to find a protruding couch-cushion. When I play free-movement HRTF games without Swamp-style direction-snapping and sonar, I find myself desperately wanting a "put the wall you keep hitting on your left/right" button after 5 minutes of getting lost. So yeah, Swamp doesn't have HRTF, but it lets you align to the compass (IRL you'd do this via walls, curbs, or the sun), and the radar functions a lot like a simplified cane. If we could 'find a way around needing these features, great! It hasn't really been demonstrated, so far as I can tell.

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I would love to try out this game. Keep up the good work. Love the tutorial and I love what I hear.

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@Rastislav: I'm totally amazed that you even have made it so far regarding the game development. It sounds like you are able to plan the future for the project, which is really great. The strength is not to be the best developer, but to know what your goal is with your project, and then having the will to keep working on the project, until your goal has been reached. I'm amazed that you are even able to learn all that stuff, coding it all in C++ etc. That's really not an easy task, and not something an unexperienced programmer is able to do. If you not are an experienced programmer, you must be able to learn and understand very quickly how it all works. So, keep up the fantastic job. I'm really excited...

Best regards SLJ.
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

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I completely agree with SLJ, this game will revolutionize the field of audio games.

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But, I don't know, how developmend is continuing? I'll be happy, that next game of Slovakia will be maybe so popular, like Eurofly.

Que sabor? Saborrrrrrr!

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Hi,
for first, thank you all for your support, your reactions are motivation for me to continue in development of this game, because I see there is interest about it.

@Caejones: I like way you can describe things and problems, you are of course true. There really isn't way how to avoid compass and radar in 3d game. Hovever, what is hard to tell is what is compass, and what is radar?

I will take an example here - Audioslenderman. In the game for sighted persons is no light in rooms of dark house, you have only flashlight, which can show you one point on the wall, floor etc. I played it as sighted too, it is a small cyrcle of light in darkness, where you can recognize small area with your eyes. And here is question: can this be called radar?
I thought similar system for my Audioslenderman game, where is hovever no light, but sound point playing in space, where normally light should to come back from. So you have something like flashlight, hovever with sound instead of light. Sadly I haven't coded it yet, hovever it seems to me like it can give you very detailed picture about room, where you are currently standing, when you are rotating slowly and hearing, how is the wall builded. And here is again question: can this be called radar?

Similar situation I described with compass. For sighted people is no problem to create virtual compass in theyr heads, because they see for example how far are they turning, while blind players doesn't have chance to detect it, because they haven't compass. Of course, in Blindcraft as I sayd you can repair your orientation with surround, hovever it is not that fast and accurate like sighted people can do, and I did not found any technique to made it, so Blindcraft will contain the compass as an compensation for blindness.

Hovever, that is not situation of radar. Caejones wrote, that he did not played any fully accessible 3d game yet, and that only our accessibility feature is hrtf. My opinion is, that we don't have fully accessible 3d game yet, and that hrtf is not an accessibility feature.
Heh, I can imagine how are likers of 3d sound feeling, but I think it is right. Yeah, hrtf is good thing, I also like it, hovever only when it is made good, otherwise it will not help you much and you can get more from sound with simple behaviour rules, which you know already. And because is very hard to get really good hrtf yet for free, I decided to not depend on it.
Instead of doing it, I thought a new 3d accessibility technology, which I did not saw used in any audiogame yet. I assume it will work, hovever sadly I can not try it, first is needed to develop world itself to final form, only after it add new technologies. So if you are asking if this will be revolution or not, i can tell you, that I am asking the same question myself and have no answer. big_smile

About development, it was pretty lazy last week, probably because hard things was done before, so I needed break, hovever now I am back and want to add first animals. That is the last thing necessary for survival mode to work survivally, so when it will be done, I can record a small recording of me, trying to cut some trees in forest and grab wood from them, build a house on place, which is not that easy to find as it can look, craft some basic items needed to survive like the crafting table or sword and trying to catch some meet from animals to defeat my hunger. All excepting hunts is done already, so I hope myself it will not take a long time to finish survival mode.

Best regards

Rastislav

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Keep up the fantastic job man. You are awesome...

Best regards SLJ.
If you like the post, then please give it a thumps up.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Happy gaming... :D

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Hey guys!!!

Okay yes, I'm totally loving this idea.
I would hope though, that you add a few more crafty items too. So you can like grow your own herbs or fruits. I know in some mods of mine craft you do just that.
So that's just a suggestion.
As far as the debate with the mouse, I would suggest no mouse.
One, as someone mentioned, some people are on laptops and it's not easy to do stuff on a touch pad.
Two being, it's just harder, some people don't even have a mouse.
I know I have one somewhere, but heaven only knows where that thing's gone off to.
Perhaps then, if you do a mouse, you have a keyboard option for it as well, so that those who don't want to use a mouse, don't have to.

"Hope is the thing with feathers that perches with in the soul, that sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
Emily Dickenson

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SilverMoon wrote:

Hey guys!!!

Okay yes, I'm totally loving this idea.
I would hope though, that you add a few more crafty items too. So you can like grow your own herbs or fruits. I know in some mods of mine craft you do just that.
So that's just a suggestion.
As far as the debate with the mouse, I would suggest no mouse.
One, as someone mentioned, some people are on laptops and it's not easy to do stuff on a touch pad.
Two being, it's just harder, some people don't even have a mouse.
I know I have one somewhere, but heaven only knows where that thing's gone off to.
Perhaps then, if you do a mouse, you have a keyboard option for it as well, so that those who don't want to use a mouse, don't have to.

I agree with this idea. It'll be very great to do that.

Que sabor? Saborrrrrrr!

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I hope the Project is going well. That'll be an realy amazing game and if it gets released, I am realy excited to try and Play this.

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So excited for this project, keep up the amazing work.

As an alternative note.. All of the people complaining about the mouse? It's not hard. It's just different. It only takes around 20 minutes to get used to, and they're literally only 5 dollars. If I can play swamp on the trackpad of a laptop from 2010, you can definitely play it with a wireless $10 mouse from 2017. The only people who don't want mouse functionality are people who have literally never played with a mouse or controller.

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Swagtastic wrote:

So excited for this project, keep up the amazing work.

As an alternative note.. All of the people complaining about the mouse? It's not hard. It's just different. It only takes around 20 minutes to get used to, and they're literally only 5 dollars. If I can play swamp on the trackpad of a laptop from 2010, you can definitely play it with a wireless $10 mouse from 2017. The only people who don't want mouse functionality are people who have literally never played with a mouse or controller.

I feel like this last statement regarding the mouse is rather an over generalization.
To be quite honest, I have played with a mouse, and back when I used to play console games, did in fact, play with a controller.
However, I still find it easier to play with the keyboard, rather than a mouse. I don't think it boils down to experience, but rather people's preferences. So then to say that people haven't used the mouse/controller, and therefore don't want the mouse/controller, I think is a bit of an over generalization.
Also, I think this game should try an be as accessible, to as many people as possible. Not to just the gaming aficionados, but to the newbie as well, who genuinely hasn't used a mouse before, or doesn't possess a controller.

"Hope is the thing with feathers that perches with in the soul, that sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
Emily Dickenson

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I think the best way to satisfi anyone is to make the Mouse and Controller Support optional, so the People who wants it, including me, can use it but not everyone has to do it.

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SilverMoon wrote:
Swagtastic wrote:

So excited for this project, keep up the amazing work.

As an alternative note.. All of the people complaining about the mouse? It's not hard. It's just different. It only takes around 20 minutes to get used to, and they're literally only 5 dollars. If I can play swamp on the trackpad of a laptop from 2010, you can definitely play it with a wireless $10 mouse from 2017. The only people who don't want mouse functionality are people who have literally never played with a mouse or controller.

I feel like this last statement regarding the mouse is rather an over generalization.
To be quite honest, I have played with a mouse, and back when I used to play console games, did in fact, play with a controller.
However, I still find it easier to play with the keyboard, rather than a mouse. I don't think it boils down to experience, but rather people's preferences. So then to say that people haven't used the mouse/controller, and therefore don't want the mouse/controller, I think is a bit of an over generalization.
Also, I think this game should try an be as accessible, to as many people as possible. Not to just the gaming aficionados, but to the newbie as well, who genuinely hasn't used a mouse before, or doesn't possess a controller.

I get what you're saying, and I won't deny it was a bit of a generalization. I enjoy playing with just the keyboard when bpactical as well, but with a game like this, there's a certain degree of precision thatt's ging ot be involved. Minecraft is a much more complex game than, say, Entombed. So personally, I feel like having the option to use a mouse to give yourself that extra little bit of precision when possible would be.. Pretty nice. Do I think it should be absolutely necesary? No, probably not. But I think the option should definitely exist.

Niklas wrote:

I think the best way to satisfi anyone is to make the Mouse and Controller Support optional, so the People who wants it, including me, can use it but not everyone has to do it.


Pretty much this.

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Ofcourse, I'll agree on this idea and also Rasto, by my opinion is best to use both, mouse and keyboard.

Que sabor? Saborrrrrrr!

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Yeah, I'm with all you that are saying, that the mouse and or controller is optional, but not absolutely necessary.
Sorry if I misunderstood some of you.
But yeah, having it be an option, but not necessary, would make it accessible to people who don't want to use it, as well as those who prefer it. Hope it actually gets developed though.

"Hope is the thing with feathers that perches with in the soul, that sings the tune without the words and never stops at all."
Emily Dickenson

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This game sounds awesome! Always wanted to play Mind Craft!

Kingdom of Loathing name JB77

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Saw this post before, but finally decided to browse it today.   I disagree with your thoughts on swamp,  but love your idea, and the vision you have for your game.   Keep doing what you're doing, because your description on how everything would work sounds amazing, and something that I would love to try.   Take your time, and deliver the game you envision.  I'm definitely going to subscribe to this post to make sure I don't miss anything.   As far as the keyboard/mouse/controller is concerned   I grew up playing  on all the systems. so used to the controller,  and of course is all preference.   I'm sure it will be easy enough to have the controls be optional. ,  so not worried about that.   with that being said I think had swamp been keyboard only I wouldn't have enjoyed it have as much as I did, and still do when I have time.  Take care, and best of luck.

"Gaming is my escape"
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balls to people that can't or won't use a mouse. get over it already. really. I can guess that half of you never played swamp. you really need a mouse to play it. sure you can change the key config to play with the arrows, but the buttons to sidestep and move backwards make you go slower than the one to go forward. you can really tell that especially if you use running gear. so what are you gonna do if lets say gorths new game requires a mouse. are you gonna just not play it? I'm guessing yes. its 2017 people. not the 2000's or the 90's. its time to move ahead with audiogames. not stay 10 or 20 years behind.

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