2017-07-16 16:25:43

Hi all.
So, as some of you know, I'm hosting a Road to Rage server. I've run into a quite sad situration, which I need your opinions on how to solve.
People are cheating by using the uncle soosy weapon, even when I've disabled the cheat from the server. I don't even know how people manage to do that.
Because of this unfair gameplay, people stop playing the game. I have thought about keeping an eye on the server, and ban the people who are cheating. But I have better things to do in my life.
My hope was that people would have contacted me through the forum if such issues was going to happen, but no. They only start to complain when they see me on the server, and a few have contacted me privately about this.
So, I really need your advice on what to do. How should I stop people from cheating when they find a workaround for the cheat even when I disable it on the server? Do you enjoy playing so much so I should keep the server running, or should I just shut it down and wait for the new game? I see no point of keeping the server running if people don't play because of the cheaters, who I can't control anyway.
If I choose to shut down the server, then blame the cheaters...
I wanna make a nice and fair place for everyone. If I can't stop the cheaters, then I'll shut down the server...

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-07-16 18:33:20

I wish I knew something to say that would help you SLJ.  Figuring out how they are cheating, and know if there is a way to prevent it, all depend on how Road to Rage is coded.
Does the server produce a log of what is going on?  For example, could an automated program constantly read the log and automatically send the ban command whenever it sees that someone has used that banned weapon?  Just tossing out ideas randomly.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2017-07-16 20:10:13

Hi.
Thanks for your comments so far.
@jesseleivo: I don't know if people are using a cheat engine or program, but I don't think so. Someone mentioned it's easy to cheat if you know how to do it, so I think people are using a bug in the game to cheat.
@Aprone: Thanks a lot for your comment and question. Yes, there is a logging system in the game which works quite well. But, it don't logs which weapons people are using. So I'm not sure on what to do, or if it's really worth doing something about it.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-07-16 20:30:00

yes it is this Personally I do not, nor do I endorse this, but I know what they are doing.  They are doing this in the chat box type this.    /team uncle susi is the original command to get the cheat.  But you have to prefix it with the team, just giving this information out to help people that may be using this method, please, figure out a way to stop it.  Thank you

“The fear of loss is a path to the dark side. Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy.
The shadow of greed that is. Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.” —

2017-07-16 20:40:45

tysonsylvester123 wrote:

yes it is this Personally I do not, nor do I endorse this, but I know what they are doing.  They are doing this in the chat box type this.    /team uncle susi is the original command to get the cheat.  But you have to prefix it with the team, just giving this information out to help people that may be using this method, please, figure out a way to stop it.  Thank you

Thanks for your comment.
So, does the chat command still work when the cheat is disabled on the server? I have seen people automatically being kicked from the server by using it.
You are telling me to figure out a way to stop this. What should I do? Telling me to figure out how to stop this without telling me how to do it is kind of pointless, when reading the first post in the topic... smile

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-07-16 21:02:45

I believe that the only real way to deal with the cheaters is to try to get the game's developer to fix the bug that the cheaters are exploiting.

Beyond that, treat the cheaters the same way Steam does, if you are caught cheating, you are immediately and permanently banned from the server, no excuses, no exceptions.

2017-07-16 21:49:33

Some people have already been banned from the server because they cheated.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-07-16 22:08:51

its so fun pissing people off with that thing.

2017-07-16 23:26:09

My advice would be this, contact the developer, as was previously stated, I do not have the answer to this question, just giving out what I know

“The fear of loss is a path to the dark side. Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force. Mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy.
The shadow of greed that is. Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.” —

2017-07-17 07:47:52

JimmyDub wrote:

its so fun pissing people off with that thing.

You are one of the people who dismotivate me to keep the server running. Thanks for letting me know. I think I'll automatically ban you from my future projects, because you simply don't understand the issue, and you seem to have 0 respect for other people.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-07-17 08:34:03

In all seriousness, that's the problem when you have multiple servers, rather than a central or a lone server. People are going to make their own servers, and until that is fixed, people will cheat. I wonder why that command existed in the first place? You should be able to use Uncle Susi when the cheat in the server is on, even when in teams. If you try to use it when the cheat is off, something should happen.

Ulysses, KJ7ERC
She/they
Reedsy

2017-07-17 08:41:22

Normaly, you are not supposed to be able to use the weapon if cheating is disabled, which of course makes sense, but that is a bug. /team uncle susi allows you to get it even when cheating is disabled. People have done that to me a lot. I remember one time I was fighting someone an they were about to die, and suddenly I die by a fiew uncle susi shots, but I don't remember their name.

2017-07-17 11:05:37

first, I'm dying of laughter after reading jimmy's post, and the response to it. second, there's pretty much no way you can stop /team uncle susi. some server owners tried banning, but eventually, it becomes tedious. you could try banning, but... wish there was a kick command, really. as for pissing off people, I only use it if you use it on me first, and only to teach you a lesson. honestly, /team uncle susi will work regardless of whether cheats are enabled or not. the best thing I can suggest is to put the server in team mode. for 2 reasons: 1) every time you type in the susi command, you will lose your team, 2) no team servers are currently alive.  or just enable cheats, to make it fair, since then everyone will see if you type in the susi command. hope this helps, somewhat.

2017-07-17 11:54:54

Obviously a bugfix is the only real long-term solution.

But, if it were me, I should try to outsmart the bastards in the meanwhile. You're on Linux, so you have iptables. You could log network packets that contain a particular payload, like the one that engages the cheat, perhaps containing "uncle susi". There's a good chance it'll work, since most traffic generated by audio-games is completely unprotected. Now you can use your logs to find the IP addresses of the offenders, which you can then automatically filter, again with iptables. You could contact us with the IP addresses, so we can identify forum posters. And you can use your server log to identify usernames, which you can then ban.

If, after all that, the fear of God hasn't been put into them, nothing else will work.

@GGF I disagree that central servers are an improvement. On the contrary they make juicy targets, and also add the extra latency penalty if you aren't in easy reach of the server. Moreover, almost without exception, the operator becomes disillusioned pretty quickly with all the sleaze-bags who slam the server, and it then becomes a matter of when, not if, the game will become paid. Of course, that's no bad thing, but it does speak to compromise. On the upside, your central server generally doesn't require all this NAT-traversing nonsense to work.

Just myself, as usual.

2017-07-17 12:07:19

don't close your server slj, i hope you will fine solution.
because you are honest man, and you hosted server for others fun and enjoyment, so don't be sad and dont be heart, you will be success to stop them.

2017-07-17 14:29:28

RTR already logs the IP, so he can just ban it. the issue is, we just have a nickname on RTR. so say, my user ID over here is braille0109. on RTR, I may go by stranger. the user ID could be entirely different from the actual nickname, not to mention that some may not be registered. I agree, though, the best would be is a fix, but, as the game is no longer maintained, I can't see that happening any time soon.

2017-07-17 15:21:46

Forum mods can perform lookups by IP, so we could at least correlate. It might not be perfect though, agreed. But that still allows the server op to filter packets from the IP, and ban whatever player has that IP.

How do you send remote commands to the server. Do you need the game client just to do that too? If so, it might be a little bit of a problem.

Just myself, as usual.

2017-07-17 15:34:53

Hi all.
Thanks a lot for all your comments.
I have decided to close the server for the following reasons:
1. Some people don't take siturations like this serious.
2. I can only ban IP addresses which don't stop people.
3. I can't do anything about the cheat, when it's that easy to cheat because of a bug.
4. I don't have the experteese to log the network trafic and ban people in this way. I just have no clue on how that works or how that's done.
5. Ghorthalon is working on a new game and will properly not care about this old game anymore.
I'm glad to hear that a few people at leased enjoyed the server. It's sad to see yet again, that people who don't grow up destroys something which other people are enjoying. That's what people choose to do, and I can't do anything about it. So, to all of you who liked the server, I'm sorry, but I can't control what people are doing. I wrote in the message of the day on the server that cheating wasn't allowed. People enjoyed to mess it up anyway, so there you have the result of this.
I might host the new game Ghorthalon is working on, if there is no cheat or a better way to ban people. We'll see what happens in the future. I've moved on to other projects, where people aren't able to cheat. smile

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-07-17 15:36:39

Yes, you need the client to send remote commands to the server. You just need to know the command and the admin password. That's all. No security involved.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-07-17 15:49:10

although the RTR server itself logs IP'S, so you wouldn't even need external help to ban.

2017-07-17 15:55:06

Unfortunately banning by IP only works for like 2 minutes on most trouble makers.

- Aprone
Please try out my games and programs:
Aprone's software

2017-07-17 16:44:50

yeah, RTR's banning is super cheap. This is probably something I should have paid more attention to, but at the time it wasn't such a big deal.
Honestly though, people can still play on personal servers. I don't know if it's right, but I feel my time is better spent working on a newer, better game where this thing is less likely to happen. RTR was my first FPS, and even my first multiplayer project ever. I've learned a lot and I think it came quite far, but those things were bound to happen eventually. I was too good hearted. Haha.

--
Talon
Wanna play my Games? Listen to my Music? Follow me on Twitter, and say hi~
Code is poetry.

2017-07-17 17:10:43

Yeah, my thinking was a simple loop, just run it from cron or something: parse a log of IPs using the cheat, and invoke a program to ban. Obviously, if you need the client, you can't do it that way. You'd have to do it in the firewall (iptables) which would be less subtle but just as effective.

And I've give a lot to watch a game in which a player's connection suddenly hangs mid-cheat because they used a naughty command. big_smile

Just myself, as usual.

2017-07-17 18:18:37

It's not much but I've taken uncle susi out of the game.

I'm uploading this thing. It's huge and probably not very organized so I might have to do that at some point, but hey, let's give it a try. I should have posted this months ago when it was completed but never got around to it. This code makes me question a lot of things. It's bad.

2 hours left to upload. Good lordy...

--
Talon
Wanna play my Games? Listen to my Music? Follow me on Twitter, and say hi~
Code is poetry.

2017-07-17 19:17:17

so: 1) since IP banning doesn't work, regardless of whether someone helps us or not, that still won't get us anywhere, kind of as I suggested. 2) Gorthalon, if that helps, it took 5 years for someone to create a game, that's worth playing in the FPS category, if that helps. considering it was your first game, it came far enough. and, since susi was the main issue, other than susi, the banning system may do for what we need it. so is this version you're uploading a whole new version, or is it just a version, without susi? thanks much for all the fun, that is coming up, and that we've had in the past.