2017-06-12 13:22:27

I have noticed  when you use spellcheck in word 2016, it has one really annoying habbit.

As well as checking things like  spelling and conventional grammar slips such as double spacing or using the wrong it's, it also keeps irritating me by flagging up phrases and saying @consider using precise language@,  for example if I write @a number of@ it will pull it up as a  mistake and suggest @many@

I do not like Microsoft  interfering with my writing  style, especially when it seems it wants to rob it of all nuance and personality. Hell no Microsoft! "Exactly the same"  does not mean the same thing as "the same"  big_smile.

I have tried to find the  for the spelling and grammar check but I'm having no luck at all. Indeed where the older versions of word used  have a straight out button marked "ignore this rule" the newer version doesn't.

Does anyone know  how to stop word doing this? since it would speed matters up no  end, indeed I find the idea that Microsoft is now telling people by mechanics not just what is correct spelling or when a basic word order is wrong, but how much equivocation to use in a sentence pretty disturbing, ---- the world is run by uncreative robots for uncreative robots, insert rant on corporate killing of creativity.

Anyway, if anyone knows how to get word to behave I'd appreciate it.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-12 14:00:25 (edited by afrim 2017-06-12 14:09:28)

Hi Dark,
Since you are a native speaker of English, I don't know really why would you need the spellcheck provided that you own the four features of language; reading, writing, listening, and speaking. I am not a native English speaker, and I never use the spellcheck feature in any document processing application. My suggestion is to avoid it as much as possible, since you are really hiding your mistakes from yourself. It is better to stop and check the spelling of certain words whose correct spelling you're not sure about, rather than let Microsoft word do the job for you. I tell this to all those who care about their writing skills, cause one of the skills is having a good level of writing your language, and this is completely different from speaking where you simply pronounce the word you heard somewhere.

2017-06-12 14:53:28

Perhaps, but checking all but the most grievous spelling errors via screen reader is highly unreliable. I'm not sure how many people have the patience to read a document character by character, never mind the attention span to notice every error that way. I mean, I still accidentally use homophones by mistake on occasion, and a screen reader won't catch that unless I already suspect it.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2017-06-12 15:25:57

Well, I guess you are aware of what you write, so that, for example, you won't mistake peace for piece. I am certainly talking about documents that you write, not documents written by others.

2017-06-12 18:39:17

Suggesting that just because a person is great with a language they cannot misspell a word is like suggesting that a cook need never check a recipe book.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2017-06-12 20:54:36

@Afrim, firstly, what about typos? Really as Cae and Nocturnus both said just because a person is a native speaker does not mean they don't need a spell check, especially I might say when using a screen reader and being liable to do things like miss extra spaces, change capitalisation  or have floating punctuation marks, or indeed write a word which sounds! perfectly fine  is usually spelt in an absolutely irrational way.

While I love the English language for it's depth of expression  and endless nuances, I hate! it's illogical spelling.

I am naturally a person who writes by sound and rhythm, the spelling of many English words is frankly irrational to me.
So, when I am writing, especially creatively as I do with  pieces of serious work like my book reviews (and expecially academic things), I'm far more concerned with how things sound! than the stupidity of spelling, indeed my research assistant (who has a masters in English language), once told me my spelling is always correct, it is just not always right big_smile.
This is why I use a spellcheck, which indeed often does tell me about the more eccentric turns of English spelling.

What I do not! like is word's habbit of telling me what to write, so if anyone has a solution for that that would be much appreciated.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-12 22:06:03

It's also worth noting that, when one types quickly, it's easy to think one typed something other than what actually appeared. It's dreadfully difficult to avoid occasionally mistyping "the" as "hte", or "to" as "ot". And it isn't uncommon that the shift key stays down a little too long, capitalizing the first two letters of a word, instead of only the first. Those are just the ones I have to fight on a daily basis.

看過來!
"If you want utopia but reality gives you Lovecraft, you don't give up, you carve your utopia out of the corpses of dead gods."
MaxAngor wrote:
    George... Don't do that.

2017-06-13 03:09:04

I always have trouble with IPHone for some odd reason, along with the word just jsut because my brain is a lot faster than my fingers, and once upon a time I went to the run dialogue intending to type downloads and ended up with d[wm;pads, whatever those are.  so yes, spellcherkers... I mean, spelchekkers, they really do have a purpose in life.  We're only as goood as the computers we work with, and that's why spellcheckers exist.
BTW, the above parragraph is proof that just because you know precisely what you want to say and how you want to say it, you won't always write it right, especially if you type some 70 words per minute and your fingers can't keep up with your thoughts.

When life gives you oranges, demand lemons since everyone else is obviously getting them.

2017-06-13 10:18:18

Rules for Writers
-----------------
1. Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects.
2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
3. And don't start a sentence with a conjunction.
4. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
5. Avoid clichés like the plague. (They're old hat.)
6. Be more or less specific.
7. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary.
8. Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies.
9. No sentence fragments.
10. Don't use no double negatives.
11. Proofread carefully to see if you any words out

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-13 11:54:26

hi,
Dark, I agree with you 100%. When writing academic papers, it is sometimes necesary to use many words. I also find the problem you're facing in word. I just ignore each time. However, you might go to file/options and under the proofing catagory, uncheck check for style. That should probably  fix that. In fact, I'll try it after writing this post and report back, as word always tries to correct me when I write "I am of the opinion that".

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2017-06-13 11:59:52

hi,
Ok I checked this setting. Dark, when you reach proofing, tab to the writing style. If you have the grammar/more option, you can tab to the settings button and check and uncheck what things should be corrected. From the settings there, it is possible to uncheck wordyness.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2017-06-13 13:43:04

@Enes, You are exactly right. Having written  and read papers on ethics for years, I am used to the different nuances implicit in sentence structure, for example as I said above saying two things are "the same" is  not functionally equivalent to saying "two things are exactly the same" whatever word thinks, since the qualifier "exactly" denotes a  level of emphasis that the simple bare bones statement of similarity does not.

This is why I tend to work hard with what I want to say when I write book reviews, ---- which you can find over at www.fantasybookreview.co.uk, (the last one they posted was for Anne McCaffrey's Dragon flight, but I've just sent off two new ones).

Either way thanks for finding the grammar settings. I was sure they were there somewhere, but with  the annoying ribbons I wasn't exactly sure where Word's options were, (older versions of Word used to have spell check options available when you actually ran the spell check).

It turns out that the setting which was causing the problem was "clarity and conciseness" (wordiness was unchecked by default but once I unchecked the clarity setting Word stopped flagging qualifiers).

@Tjt, Thanks for the writing guide I'll have a look at that, it'll likely give me a chuckle.

I'm afraid though I simply disagree with you about Word's concise choices here.

The actual sentence with "a number of" was where I was describing the protagonist of the horror novel I was reviewing having "a number of" nightmares in the book. I do not  remember how many there were, certainly not enough to call "many"

"several" might have done, however I wanted to denote the fact that the nightmares were a recurring theme, particularly since I was  contrasting the nightmares to other themes in the bbook itself.

Btw, the book in question was Bentley Little's "the Influence"

of course your quite free to disagree with my use of qualifyers here, however like me you are a rational person who can hear and understand the nuances of language, not a computer program telling me how to write based  on an algorithm! Hell the very idea of such I find rather disturbing, since hay what ever happened  to the idea of writing creatively?

I demand my right to waffle! big_smile.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-13 14:18:02 (edited by afrim 2017-06-13 14:19:15)

Hi Dark,
Well, I believe some of these rules are automatically fixed by Word, particularly capitalisation and Z vs. S, first sound related to American English and second to British English. A change in these sounds you may notice when writing organisation (with an s, not a z), and Word automatically changes it to organization (with a z).
Again, my suggestion is to avoid spellchecking as much as possible, but stop where you're not sure how a word is written and check for the right spelling by pressing application on the word where the cursor is focused. Also, proofread your document which in tern might help you consider the word choice in any particular phrase.
Since you write academic works and book reviews, I'm not sure how much will the spellchecking feature help you as in academic works you have to use an advanced vocabulary, words which are derived from other languages, and so on. Certainly spellchecking might help you with capitalisation or punctuation, but when it comes to word choice and word arrangement in the sentence, spellcheck can't do much. In book reviews, for example, you may quote a sentence or phrase from the book, such as "dark were the days and gloomy were the nights" where the spellcheck will not be able to help, or you don't want it to help you because you're inverting subject and verb on purpose. You know (I reckon) that the sentence would be normally written "days were dark and nights were gloomy, or days were dark and so were the nights."
This is why I recommend you avoid the use of a spellcheck as you should be the one who writes, not the application, and with a bit of more attention, most of the problems you want to be resolved by the spellcheck can be avoided. On one particular thing you say I do really agree, that is the grammar mistakes you may make and the screen reader won't recognise. Still, in these cases where you're not sure, you can always look up the correct spelling of the word, and that is pretty simple. NVDA once added a feature which I'm not sure it still exists, that is, you could read a document in Microsoft Word and whenever NVDA came across a misspelled word, a beap sound would be generated.

By the way, sorry for bringing here some of the rules you would tipically learn in an English class.

2017-06-14 12:32:14

@Tjt, that is exactly my point. I! wanted to use the phrase "a number of" because  believed it to be correct given the context of what I  writing about. You would have used a different phrase, which is  course as it should be since you are a different person.

Even if you and I both wrote reviews of the same book, and even if we both agreed, not just what we say, but the way we say it would be individualised. that is the thing I find so offensive in Word,  in the guise of @conciseness@ it is actually smothering people's creative use of language.

Btw, in terms of The Influence, hopefully my review will be posted soon and you can see yourself what I thought of the book.
It wasn't a bad book, the actual horror stuff was very well done, though some of the characters and the author's pacing were rather off.Find all my book reviews here

"Afrim, while I admit I rather toss off posts on this forum, when writing something serious like my academic work or book reviews I already proof read exhaustively, iondeed I frequently have double spaces because I have changed words several times,  and as you probably have noticed I do tend to use British English spelling.

I do find the ability to instantly know of a spelling error helpful, but effectively as Tjt said that is using the word spellcheck anyway, so using the spell check afterwards is simply an extra way of checking.

Again, I'm really not sure why you have this downer on a spellcheck (especially when you admit you use  the function to flag spelling errors individually and have your screen reader announce them).

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-14 20:16:58

@Dark, I don't apply spellchecking  on the whole document, I just check any word that I am not sure it is written in a way or another. That is a little bit different.

2017-06-14 22:39:06

"Tjt I agree completely, the sad thing is if  Dickins had been checked for conciseness methinks his books wouldn't be half what they were.

"Afrim, I'm afraid I really don't see the difference here. While you are writing you use the spellcheck to flag your errors and lookup words your uncertain of, but you don't use the checking tool after you have finished writing? Quite aside from catching  things like extra spaces, this seems a little odd to me.
maybe it is a difference in how we right. Myself, I tend to splurge completely, slashing down words in something of a frenzy much as the way I would speak them. Then when I either finish what I am doing or come to a stopping point I go back to the top and read through, and check, then check again, and usually a few more times, making miner edits in sentence structure and sometimes even paragraph order to make my text readable. My  thesis I literally read through line by line close to 100 times making incredibly! small changes.  if I get a buzz and a spelling error I'll try to correct at this point, though generally I don't regard spellings as a priority until I have actually finished the work on the content, since it is more important to me that I get across what I want to say in the way I want to say it than that every spelling is letter perfect at this stage.
Only when this process of checking and rechecking is completely over do I run the spellcheck to catch things that my editing with a screen reader misses as any spelling errors I didn't edit out, miss placed spaces, floating punctuation etc.

Btw this actually used to create major arguments when I was writing for my degree,  I was always told to write @ an essay plan or a draught.
I however never! wrote draughts or plans, since what I wrote  was a much less structured and more organic process where I'd have a clear idea of what I was going! to say just not necessarily how I was going to say it, or a specifically defined structure of points I could rigidly adhere to since my points usually immerged as I went through the checking and rechecking process.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-15 05:33:04

hi,
Afrim, you should always check the whole document for spelling, eeven if it is your native language. As  you are likely to still make many mistakes. Hell, I am so glad my professors didn't see the original, unedited versions of my assignments. Additionally, english is not an orthographic language, unlike turkish, so that also increases errors.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2017-06-15 10:59:09

@Dark, Well, as I said, it is a little bit different as I stop whenever I am not sure whether different, for example, is written with a double F, or with a single F. Sometimes Word corrects them automatically, particularly when the misspelling is a mistake like S for C, S for Z, and vice-versa. However, in most of the cases I don't need to have Word do that for me, since my memory still works well, but it does seldom fall into a big confusion. The reason I don't do spellchecking is because I've been taught to take writing and language in particular, very seriously. I study English language and culture, and throughout my experience with English, we've had different classes with different activities which tend to improve our spelling. We've had dictations each week three years ago, and that really had a positive effect in the quality of my written English since I could see my mistakes and correct them. My teacher of English was very helpful in working with me as well. She would encourage me to work harder everyday, and this is the reason why I was one of the best students in my class, and even my school. Studying English, after getting a degree, we are supposed to be teacher of English, and if we pursue further studies we are supposed to be professors of English, in that we can work in higher posts like pedagogs, professional translators, editors or redactors for publishing houses, book writers, and so on. Suppose that you were a professor of English tomorrow, what would you do? Would you use spellchecking to identify the mistakes of your students? Yes? ok than, its the computer working, not you.

@Enes, what do you study, please?

2017-06-15 11:39:38

@Afrim, I suspect this is something we just will not agree on. hell my research assistant who has a masters in English language, can read poetry  middle English and knows the derivation of most words (she's also a demon on grammar), uses a spellcheck when necessary, to me, and to most people in England a spell check is just a tool like any other tool, and as I said, I am afraid I simply do not get the difference  between seeing a spelling error as you type or spell checking as a final  measure to make sure your document is error free, especially given those things like double spaces which you just cannot catch yourself.

Maybe this is something about the way English is taught in Albania, since as I said in England it's certainly encouraged, I don't think many of our other members who have learned English as a second language such as Enes  to have a problem with the spell check.

Whether primary school teachers use a spellcheck when they're teaching children to spell I do not know, though it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-15 15:23:04 (edited by Ghost 2017-06-15 15:24:40)

hi,
At afrim, I am currently doing my BA in ELT. But what wait? Wern't you studying linguistics? I am also seriously considering  further graduate study in linguistics.
Dark, a minor correction. I was born and raised in the US, though my parents are both Turkish. So, according to linguistics, I qualify as a native speaker of english, as I spent almost 8 years in the US.
I should further say that I fully believe that a spellcheck is a definite must when writing anything important, such as academic work. As english is not an orthographic language, it is natural to sometimes, even frequently misspell some words.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2017-06-15 17:42:41

"Enes, sorry about that, since your in Turkey I sort of assumed that Turkish would be your first language.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-16 14:10:16

@Harley B, Enes found a way to disabled the annoying thing, check posts 12 and 13 in this topic. Now the spellcheck in word is fine.

What is grammarly?

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-06-16 14:21:33

hi,
It is a sight that can check documents for errors. However, I wish I could figure out how to use the paid version, as my university has purchased it.

A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."

2017-06-16 16:26:00

Well since I've already bought word I don't really see the point of another paid service, as word is working fine now.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2017-07-03 17:47:09

Okay I'm running into another really frustrating issue with a spellcheck and maybe someone can   give me an idea.

I am in the Uk, I write Uk English, not Us English. I have my location  in windows set to the Uk, I have the default language in word when I go to the languages profile set as English Uk, then why does word persist  changing to English Us? I change it back for a second,  it defaults to English us.

This is really! getting irritating!

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)