2017-04-02 22:17:38

Hi.
I'm giving Inform7 a try, and I have a few questions:
1. Do you have some small simple examples which actually works in the compiler? I have no idea on what I'm doing wrong, but the simple examples from the manual gives me lots of errors, even when I'm copying the examples directly from the manual. So for this reason, I find it difficult to get started.
2. What tab is used to read the output for the game when running it from the compiler by pressing f5? How do I enter any commands?
I have some more questions, but first I wanna learn the basics. smile

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
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2017-04-03 04:51:53

Oh. Inform 7? Let's see here. I would have to look through my projects to find something. The manual is quite terrible sometimes. There are way too many times of having to play with things until something works, but it is usable. I also dislike the interpreter it uses, but there are ways of doing things. You might be able to export the project as a completed project and run on a good interpreter, but that's a usually undesirable process, i'd imagine. I wonder if there is a screen reader addon for just such an occation. In any case, by default, it compiles in the right tab which would be the story pannel. I do dislike the interface. So long as the right panel has focus, you should be able to write to it. Don't worry, the story panel is one of my biggest complaints about the software. It works, but not as one would like. Though the manual has a learning curve, if you are using the most recent version, things should work as expected. Feel free to ask any questions if you are having trouble. It's been a while since I've worked with the software, but I can write examples that should showcase certain concepts. just remember to always create a room before you do anything else.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2017-04-03 05:37:56

I've tried it and man for all they say it is plain english, nothing works as expected, the end result isn't even accessible

Facts with Tom MacDonald, Adam Calhoun, and Dax
End racism
End division
Become united

2017-04-03 05:44:25

Could you post the errors you're getting, along with the examples you're pasting in? there's currently not enough context to direct you to something better.

2017-04-03 07:56:15

Hi.
Thanks for your answers so far.
Here is the very first example which gives me an error. It says something by a sentence:
"Midsummer Day"
The Gazebo is a room.
The example should simply show en empty room.
The next example which should give me a room description:
"Midsummer Day"
The Gazebo is a room. "A white canvas parasol raised up on stakes driven into the grass."
What's wrong with those examples? It's really bad that the examples in the manual don't work. I'm not sure if it's my browser which converts the text into something strange. I have no clue on what I'm doing wrong.
So, if I get this example to work, how do I switch to the place in the Inform7 compiler where I can enter the look command, and how do I read the output from the game?
I think I'll be able to understand most of the tutorial if I just get the basics to get started.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-04-03 22:19:05

I attempted learning this language some time ago, but my main problem with it is the syntax. I thought at one time that the idea of syntax that looked close to English was good, but that was until I tried it. I could never fully wrap my head around it.

If you have issues with Scramble, please contact support at the link below. I check here at least once a day, so this is the best avenue for submitting your issues and bug reports.
https://stevend.net/scramble/support

2017-04-03 22:45:14

So, you have no clue on why the very first example won't work? I'm glad I'm not the only one who is having trouble on understanding how it works. It's even more difficult when the examples from the tutorial don't work. Lol. But I think it's just me who are doing something wrong...

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-04-03 23:37:58

When you try to run it, errors should appear once it finishes attempting to compile (hit f6 to view them, f5 to compile). If there are none,, it should toss you directly into the interpreter, where you can type in commands. (It works perfectly fine with both NVDA and JAWS; I've tested it with both). I'm really not sure what you're looking for, but I can paste a part of a project I've been working on that demonstrates scenes (a little bit) and the power of dynamic descriptions.



***Begin pasted text***

A span is a number that varies. The span is 0.
Every turn, increase the span by 1.
Morning is a recurring scene. Morning begins when the span is 0. Morning ends when the span is 3.
Afternoon is a recurring scene. Afternoon begins when morning ends. Afternoon ends when the span is 6.
Evening is a recurring scene. Evening begins when afternoon ends. Evening ends when the span is 9.
Dusk is a recurring scene. Dusk begins when evening ends. Dusk ends when the span is 12.
Night is a recurring scene. Night begins when dusk ends. Night ends when the span is 15.
Twilight is a recurring scene. Twilight begins when night ends. Twilight ends when the span is 18.
When twilight ends:
now the span is 0.
When morning begins:
say "Hesitant light from the recently reborn sun heralds the start of a new spawn."
When afternoon begins:
say "Light from the planet's blue star becomes increasingly difficult to bare as it continues on a radiant arc across the sky."
When evening begins:
say "Light slowly drains from the area as the sun continues its journey clockwise, dropping below the rim of your humble abode."
When dusk begins:
say "Vestiges of blue die out in the eastern sky, signifying the spawnly death of the sun. The temperature drops quickly under the burgeoning presence of the moon."
When night begins:
say "The greenish grey moon gathers a quilt of star-stitched blackness about it, blanketing the world in night proper."
When twilight begins:
say "Greenish silver shifts subtly to the grey mists of twilight, which descend about your jar, but do not quite enter. Though illuminated by the moon, the natural satellite itself is no longer visible."
The Jar is a room. The description of the Jar is "White porcelain presents the soles of your feet with a surface slick and smooth as silicon, and curves upwards to form the walls of the chamber. [if the span is at most 2]Light, violet and pale, pours in from above, filling the room with the scent of dew and rotting leaves[else if the span is at least 3 and the span is at most 5]bluish gold afternoon light sizzles against the white ceramic as it gushes in through the open-air ceiling, leaving jagged black scorch marks across the pristine whiteness of the room[else if the span is at least 6 and the span is at most 8]Muted shades of blue and purple swirl peacefully within the heat-bleached confines of the cylindrical space, trickling in from above like celestial molasses[else if the span is at least 9 and the span is at most 11]Save the blinding spans near the middle of eachh spend, dusk tends to comprise the darkest spans of the spawn; there is no heat from the sun, nor cold from the moon, and your small home is plunged into a deep pool of terrestrial shadow. Specks of silver gather around the terrible black scars in the building's structure, signifying the start of the healing process[else if the span is at least 12 and the span is at most 14]The greenish grey light of a full moon accompanies the frosty bite of nightfall. Under its eerie glow, shadows shiver across the sun-scarred ceramic of the walls and floor, and the charcoal colored burns gradually scab over in gleaming streaks of silver[else if the span is at least 15 and the span is at most 17]Silver steadily drips from the walls of the cylinder. It gathers as dust on the floor, and is quietly lost to the greens and greys of twilight. Outside, the moon is only just barely visible; soon it will be no longer[end if]."

***end pasted text***

Truthfully I don't really use scenes for much here (what I do use them for can be easily replicated with the spans system probably) but I use them for something later, so that's why they're there. This does, however, demonstrate how to make a proper room, with descriptions that change. I decided to put an example of that because the grammar required to set up some of the variations in text and put math into words can sometimes get tricky and annoying.

Inform is designed to make text based (and so, by definition, fully accessible games). It is accessible, down to the compiler and the tester. I am by no means an expert on inform, but I've read the manual and probably at least have sort of an idea of what I'm doing. tongue

Anyway, if you have any more questions, let me know. I hope this helps.

Go, balloons. I don't see anything happening. Go, balloons. Go, balloons. Go, balloons. Stand by, confetti. Keep coming, balloons. More balloons. Bring them. Balloons, balloons, balloons! More balloons. Tons of them. Bring them down. Let them all come. No confetti. No confetti yet. No confetti. All right. Go, balloons.

2017-04-04 00:20:20

Wait, you managed to get the interpreter running? I've been having trouble with such tasks. I've found that accessibility can be had, but I have found it lacking in ways that I would prefer it not lack. Also, just a quick note, if anyone tells you Inform 7 is "natural english" they are very wrong. While it looks like natural English, never forget that the computer isn't far from that facade. I do like it for teaching programming logic and developing infocom spec games, but I would never dream of making a general purpose programming language of it. It's fun to play with, though, and while not the most powerful thing in the world, it can be used for quick development.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2017-04-04 01:08:35

It's always worked fine for me. When something compiles through f5 it should automatically put you into the game. you can type commands in directly, and then use insert+arrows or the jaws cursor to navigate through the output.

  I entirely agree with the natural English comment though. IN fact that's another reason I wanted the example of the if statements there. If you notice, I had to put the span statement twice in one sentence to get it to recognize that. It's no fault of the program language really, being vague with if statements is just begging for complications, but it wouldn't accept "if the span is between x and y" or "if the span is at least x and at most y"; I had to specifically say "if the span is at least x and the span is at most y". I'm wondering if using or would have let me be a bit more grammatically accurate, but yeah, sometimes it's just really hard, if not impossible, to disguise programming with plain old English, and for figuring out how inform wants some obscure feature to be phrased you're probably going to have to hit the books, because what you think is logical won't make sense to the computer.

  It's conceptually awesome though, and I enjoy messing around with small projects whenever the mood strikes me. Inform is sort of a product of a community that finds guess the verb games worthwhile puzzles though, and sometimes that shows -- I'm not saying that it was purposely designed that way, but most of the people who regularly use inform7 don't seem to mind at all if they have to search through the massive manual for whatever phrasing they need, or figure out how a particular extension works with whatever they're trying to do. I guess after a while you just become really good at figuring out how to put things into an inform7 comprehensible format, just like any other language, programming or otherwise.

  Anyway, sorry for the long ramble, hope the room works out. Just remember to try to be as literal as possible, if the logically written sentence doesn't work out. Also, keep track of your punctuation, because inform will sometimes worry about that (like ending sentences with a period).

Good luck! smile

Go, balloons. I don't see anything happening. Go, balloons. Go, balloons. Go, balloons. Stand by, confetti. Keep coming, balloons. More balloons. Bring them. Balloons, balloons, balloons! More balloons. Tons of them. Bring them down. Let them all come. No confetti. No confetti yet. No confetti. All right. Go, balloons.

2017-04-04 07:44:33

What I'm looking for? I'm simply asking why the examples I've posted don't work.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-04-04 08:50:00

Without knowing what errors you're getting, it's hard to know why the examples don't work.

Can you access the error screen? if you can, copy the errors from that and paste them here.

I unfortunately don't have an inform copy, so I can't test it out for you, but by all estimations that should work fine. Again, if you'd post the errors, that'd be helpful.

2017-04-04 13:24:29

Yeah exactly. With what you gave me the best I could do was try and give you a working example of my own. Honestly i never used the examples for much save reference, and it's been a while since I've read any of them. Just compile it and paste in the contents of the
"Report on Translation: Failed"
screen, and we can try and give more relevant help.
(If you're not getting that screen when you hit f5, then that means it's probably running fine, unless you're getting a runtime error, which is a little more rare, especially with something that small.)
If it's doing something but not what you expected it to,, then what is it doing? What do you want it to do?
Basically what I'm saying a lot of the time things don't just "go wrong" -- they go wrong in a myriad of different ways. I need to know how it's going wrong to help you.

Go, balloons. I don't see anything happening. Go, balloons. Go, balloons. Go, balloons. Stand by, confetti. Keep coming, balloons. More balloons. Bring them. Balloons, balloons, balloons! More balloons. Tons of them. Bring them down. Let them all come. No confetti. No confetti yet. No confetti. All right. Go, balloons.

2017-04-04 17:17:37

When you set up a new Project, Inform writes the title and author in the first line. Have you erased that before using the example? Because otherwise the "Midsummer day" line is seen as text that is completely out of context to Inform. Hope that helps.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

2017-04-04 22:03:01

Hi.
I have just noticed what I did wrong, and I feel like a completely failure. I feel so stupid at the moment... Yes, you'll laugh when you read what I messed up, and it's okay to laugh...
I copied the examples directly from the tutorial, and stupid me forgot to remove the quotes... it is so stupid and so simple so it's funny...
So, after having figured that out, I just realized how simple Inform7 is. It is so simple so it's difficult to believe. I mean, the tutorial talk a lot about how to avoid misunderstanding when writing the text. But after having looked at it briefly and after having messed around with a very small test game, which works, I start to realize how simple this thing is when you understand the logic behind. No, I'm not a pro yet and I have only tried my own little test thing which contains one room and one item. But I could do things which I didn't coded in the game just because a lot of stuff is made already and I just have to write what items I want etc. Just, wow... So I took the item without writing any code which explains how to take an item, and I had an inventory...
So, now I've got the basics, and I think I'm able to keep reading in the tutorial and learn what I need.
So let's continue to my next questions:
1. What accessible interpreters are there for Windows and maybe also for Mac? It would be great if there is something which reads the output automatically on all systems. I've tried Frotz on IOS which works great. I've read about Glux or something similar which is much more advanced for bigger projects. I have a big project in mind, so it would be great if I could find a interpreter which works on all systems or as many as possible. I'm just not sure where to look, and I have searched on Google without finding much information.
2. A more advanced question which I haven't tried to look up on Google yet:
In the future, I might work on a danish game. I've read that there are extensions for other languages but not in danish. I assume that's extensions which translates all the commands into an other language. Do you have any clue on how to make this and if it's difficult to make? If I am able to learn how to do this, I'll make such extension for sure. I could of course read about extensions in the tutorial which I'll do in the future, but it would be interesting to hear if you know how to do this or not, and if you know if any other coding skills is required to do this.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-04-05 00:06:59

1. Yeah,, Glulxe works great for windows, So does Winfrotz, actually. I'm not really sure about Mac.
2. I'm not sure about a language translation for Danish, but as far as descriptions and whatnot go you could just write them in Danish. After that you'd need to find out all the misc bits of text stored in rules that provide the character with English text, and translate them (like get, drop, inventory, looking in items, items on the ground, etc). Ironically,, the same thing that makes inform simple to use is the same thing that might complicate a translation somewhat -- all the pre-built rules required to understand the English language.

Go, balloons. I don't see anything happening. Go, balloons. Go, balloons. Go, balloons. Stand by, confetti. Keep coming, balloons. More balloons. Bring them. Balloons, balloons, balloons! More balloons. Tons of them. Bring them down. Let them all come. No confetti. No confetti yet. No confetti. All right. Go, balloons.

2017-04-05 02:53:15

Okay. Good to hear  you figured it out. Things like that happen. Now, on to your questions.
1. My current favorite glulx interpreter is called wingit or git. I use NVDA, so I have an NVDA addon to make things work.
2. If you type "inform 7 extensions" without the quotes into google, the first result should be the inform 7 extensions page. Look under the translations section and click on the source link. This is the easiest way to the source of  an extension. You can also see the source of any extension you've downloaded (this includes the standard rules) by pressing alt, then going to files and pressing the down arrow. Navigate to open extensions and press the right arrow to open the sub-menu. Select the author of the extension you are interested in and again open the sub-menu. From here you can select the extension you are interested in. This is a great way to learn the source code... I mean... text.

I have a website now.
"C: God's Programming Language
C++: The object-oriented programming language of a pagan deity" -- The Red Book
"There, but for the grace of God go I"

2017-04-05 08:27:43

Thanks a lot for your answers. Time to check this out. big_smile

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-04-05 09:46:18

I think the most difficult bit about writing language extensions is that you not just have to Change all the rules sentences, but also you have to program how Inform should handle definite and indefinite articles, plurals, verb tenses and so on, since it does that all automatically in English.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

2017-04-05 12:15:39

So, I can't just translate the command inventory into an other language and assume it works as the inventory command?

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-04-05 14:11:22

For example, if you type "An arrow is a Thing. The Player carries ten arrows". Now the Player has ten identical arrows and not an object called "ten arrows". This is because Inform assumes that the plural of arrow is arrows. This assumption is not true in other languages. Or another example: Inform automatically builds past tenses from verbs so that you can use them if necessary. So by defining the verb "like", Inform automatically codes the words "liked", "is liking" and so on. Now by using german words, for example, and you define "sein", it'll get "seined" and "is seining" and so on. This is in my opinion the biggest Problem with other languages in Inform.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

2017-04-05 16:10:42

It makes sense. I mean: If I wanna make a game in danish, or an other language, do I then have to translate the commands like get, inventory, the walking directions, open, close etc. or do I have to rewrite those commands from scratch?

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-04-05 17:01:40

I think the commands can just be translated without rewriting them, but the Parser would be quite bad then. But I don't know for sure. I've only used Inform in English.

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.

2017-04-05 20:35:32

I'll figure that out when I get more experience with Inform. I'll gladly let you know what I figure out if you're interested.

Best regards SLJ.
Feel free to contact me privately if you have something in mind. If you do so, then please send me a mail instead of using the private message on the forum, since I don't check those very often.
Facebook: https://facebook.com/sorenjensen1988
Twitter: https://twitter.com/soerenjensen

2017-04-06 09:22:26

That would be great. I'm very curious. Good luck in coding!

We are pleased, that you made it through the final challenge, where we pretended we were going to murder you. We are throwing a party in honor of your tremendous success. Place the device on the ground, then lay on your stomach with your arms at your sides. A party associate will arrive shortly to collect you for your party. Assume the party submission position or you will miss the party.