Go ahead and give that a try, and we'll go from there.

ea_accessible wrote:
Addolis wrote:

I do have the twitch ap, but it is not accessible with narrator.  I did find a nice article about streaming your games using windows 10, so I still may be able to do it that way.  If anyone has any suggestions about the twitch ap, go for it.

I can load up the xbox one twitch app and give directions on how to use it, if that would help. The UI is pretty simple. The downside is that sometimes it can take a frustratingly long time between steps, and I don't know if there are audio tones for when timeouts happen (deaf problems).

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52 (edited by ea_accessible 2017-03-15 23:35:05)

OK. I'll post directions tonight, after I get home from work.

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I thank you for the time you are taking to make this work.  As this game has so many layers to it, it will not be an over night or next release reality.  However, I'm willing to do what I need to do. Part of what could helpful in the tutorials is to possibly give some sort of audible icon or something.

ea_accessible wrote:

The rest of my post is copied below. I'm not sure if you saw it in my original post.

Thank you everyone for all the feedback. I'm reading and digesting it all, even if I'm not replying to each person directly. There will be new threads on other games in the future, once I have time to do a bit of research on them first. The goal is to come up with a plan of attack on a per-game basis. I'd like to figure out how we can best approach a single game before opening it to other games.

I do understand that it's difficult to give feedback on games that aren't already accessible. If anyone has suggestions as to what else I can do to help with Madden, I'm open to suggestions. The links on the first page should hopefully give some idea. Madden does have tutorials, but they have their own accessibility issues - there are targets you have to move to on the field, for example.

Addolis wrote:

You said that you didn't know how to save twitch videos.  And yes, it should be very possible with narrator.

ea_accessible wrote:

Forum/narrator question - is it ok to post more text after quoting someone? I don't know how posts are navigated in narrator. Just checking, as it occurred to me half my text in my last post might be lost.

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Hello all,
I have a way that I can do  audio only stream of games and things that I am experiencing.  Thanks to Microsoft,  we can stream our xbox content to our computers. I'll try twitch as well, so I can save it to youtube,  but this might be easier. The next poasting I do, will have the link for the audio game. Also, I may or may not do a full game, because my quarter length is set to 10 minutes,  but It may go by pretty quickly,  as I'll be doing a lot of explaining.
Happy gaming!

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55

Hi.
You don't need to quote other persons all the time, but just reply if you have a single comment. You can mention peoples names by writing the [ a-t ] sign before the name.
@Darrell: It's really awesome that you already have found a way to stream the audio only, or record it. I would simply have used a handhold recorder, if you don't have this, an iPhone or other smartphone with a recorder app. Or maybe hook up your computer to your tv, let the sound pass through the computers soundcard, hook up the mic to your computer and record from both the XBox and the mic at the same time. But this setup needs some audio experience, and it might be different depending on your computer, your tv and what cables you have.
It would be interesting to know more about how you can stream to your computer and record the audio only. I look very much forward to hear your recording.

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Just a heads up, We don't use the quote feature that much here, as it's more clutter for screen readers to read through because w'eve already read the post. You might be better off saying @username, or @number, where number is the post number you are refering to.

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Thanks to ea_accessible for asking for feedback and trying to help improve the accessibility of mianstream electronic games. Also thanks to @addolis for sharing your experiences.

I actually work full time on making user interfaces accessible--though my focus is web and native mobile applications for business use. But I might have a couple ideas that might be useful here.

It might be a good idea to try to come up with a list of outputs available to the game that would be accessible to someone who is blind.  For example 3D audio and vibration have been mentioned.  people have also mentioned the use of pitched tones and speech output. It might make it a little easier to solve some of the problems if you feel you have a fair idea of how information might be conveyed accessibly.

If possible, I would suggest recording both the audio and video for gaming sessions. I think it is also great that you are explaining how you do things currently and what problems you are having. I think it is definitely a good idea to provide suggestions. With the video and audio, it makes it possible for people without the game to provide feedback. The video might be useful to people with sight--since it may help them spot some aspects of the problems we are having that aren't apparent to those of us who are blind.

As a big NFL fan, I am really excited to hear that there is a chance at a possible accessible football game in the future. I am also interested in fifa--I am not really a soccer fan, but I have a few sighted friends that constantly talk about playing it. It would actually be nice to be able to join them in playing some of those games.

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@aaron - good tip, I cleaned up my previous posts

@hektor - Solutions to problems, many of which would be common across games, are my sticking point. Example: Madden has an arrow indicating recommending path to run. That would be awesome to communicate to a blind user... but how do I do that?

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Karren, what you could do is use greater bibration in the controller. If the vibration is strong, the player is not on the target. If the vibration is non existant, then the player is in the open field, and is on the path.
Also, does anyone know of a good video/audio recording program? I'll do audio for now, but since I can stream with my pc, I'd love to know of any good solutions that are accessible.
Thanks,
Darrell

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Twitch is not cooperating tonight, not sure why. I'm trying to find online directions.

For vibrations, can you suggest a way to know if you should turn left or right? the arrow basically functions like a compass pointing to an ever-moving target. Going in the opposite direction that was recommended makes you more likely to be tackled.

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Perhaps directional  vibrations? Or some sort of  audible indication of wich direction to turn either left or right on the speakers?

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Hello ea_accessible
For direction, i think the best way is to place a beeping sound on the speaker / headset. When the beep plays, that means you have to turn in to that given direction. For example, if the beep plays on the left speaker, that means you have to go to the left, same goes to the right speaker as well.
Another suggestion, it would be good if there is some kind of commentary recaps after each quarter of the game, or even a commercials from the sponsors.
As for other games, it would be good if an action or adventure games, especially for shooters can be made accessible. I want to play things like titanfall or mass effect if those can be made accessible

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For my audio demo, what is the best program for this? I want to record the system audio, but I also want to record the microphone, to ggive explanations.

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64

Hi.
For audio recordings, many people are recommending Total recorder. I've never used it though. I think Total recorder have a monitor feature so you can record both the system audio and the mic at the same time, but I don't know how that works.
Regarding what direction you should run in: The sound of someone running from the center to the left or right might be useful. In this way, a realistic sound could be played, so you kind of follow the foot steps.

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@E

Not an EA game, but the old first person football in NFL 2k5 had a similar system with arrows and sounds from the side when you were controlling a player.

Actually, that mode was stupidly accessible really. And that's a 2004 PS2 game that has great sound design...not that I ever expect EA  to nail accessibility fully mind

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@DracoSelene89 - can you describe what made the sound design so great?

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Would anyone be willing to help me set up total recorder? I want to use a USB headset, and have everything coming through them, but still record all the sounds.
Thanks,
Darrell

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@66:

UI did.

Basically, if you were in the first person mode you'd hear the defense shouting if it was a run or pass play, and (depending on if you had a decent sound setup mind), you'd hear the footsteps of the defenders near you. It was depending on if you had a great sound system, BUT if you did....it worked well.

Well...worked as well as a 2004 PS2 era game could, which was amazingly well. There's vids on Youtube about it....

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@ea_accessible, I am trying to keep up with these posts. I want you to know that, from my perspective, I think you are doing the right things. These actually would be the kind of questions I would be asking in my job. 

With regards to the arrow, I would ask some more questions--but you might already have the feedback you need from the other great responses to your question. I would ask some details about how the arrow indicating direction works. Are we talking about an arrow that paints a path on the field or one that appears soewhere on the screen? Are the directions it can point in almost infinite or is there a very finite number of directions it can point? Just reiterating some of the other great ideas...  One option is to have a 3D sound come from the direction the arrow is pointing. In this case, the player would want to try to center the sound to tell them they are on the optimal path. Vibrations could also work for this--it sounds like. No vibrations means you are on the correct path. Minimal to maximum vibrations depending on how far you are off the path. If vibrations can be differentiated from sides of the controller, you could use that like souds.  The player starts moving too far right and the right side of the control vibrates more than the left side.

Of course, you may need to consider what other things the runner needs to know at the same time. I am going to guess that you will only be able to use vibrations to indicate one thing at a time?  And you might be able to use audio to indicate multiple pieces of information simultaneously.   With sound you also have the option of changing the position of sounds, changing the volume of sounds, changing the pitch of sounds, and changing the type of sounds.  What aspects of vibration can you control and vary?

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I'm working with someone on the game play team to come up with a list of features ranked for importance, and provide a detailed and specific description of each. This should help with deciding what's important and when audio or vibration should be used.


@Hektor - the arrow is short and works similar to a compass. While running, it's also important to know if someone is within tackle range, and where they are coming from. I'll ask the game play team member if he can think of anything else that's important while running.

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I will be very interested to know what the priorities are. But I think that making the interface should be first and formost a priority, because without that, gameplay at least in my opinion takes a back seat.

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Yeah, agreed. It would suck if we can run plays but not select one!

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73

Hi.
@Darrell I wish I could help more regarding to Total recorder, but I can't since I haven't used it. You can try to ask in the off-topic room.
To all: Regarding vibrations, no, the controller can't vibrate in different directions. There are two vibrators, or motors in the controller. One in each side. One small and one big motor. This is used for light vibrations and heavy vibrations depending on how fast each motor spinns. Many years ago, I broke a ps2 controller and hooked up a power supply, and I had a lot of fun playing with the two motors. Lol.
So, vibration can be used for a lot of things depending on how the controller vibrates, but it can't vibrate from different directions.

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74 (edited by cj89 2017-03-17 13:16:20)

@Darrell:
Honestly the easiest way to set up total recorder is to run the recording wizard from the tools menu. From there choose the option "sound that is reproduced by a sound player." This will mean that all your computer sounds come through though, so if you don't want that then I'm not sure what the best way to go about it is. From an earlier post I recall you saying you'd be streaming from your computer, so there's that.
You'll also want to go into sounds in control panel, go to the recording tab, highlight your headset, then choose properties. Go to the listen tab and choose listen to this device. Once you do that, the next box will ask you what device you want the output to go to. In case it wasn't already apparent, you will hear yourself. Also, you won't have to use the wizard each time you open total recorder from then on, just hit record and it'll use your last saved settings.
HTH

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Hi,
I think for arrows you should use a sound as well, in a direction, and not just vibration.

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