*Writes 3k post*
*Considers the consequences from all sides*
*Cuts*

A question, and a statement. Apply them liberally--to yourself, and to others.
The question: Why do you believe what you believe? "Because the most influential people around me, now or at some more impactful time of my life, believed something quite similar" is a valid answer. More people should admit this.
The Statement: No two minds are identical, nor are their experiences! Yes, it sounds obvious--but, no, really, lots and lots of things people think of as universal experiences are far from universal. This includes the God Feeling / Divine Presence Experience. Did you know people have felt this strong sense of the presence of holy divinity? Did you know that some people have not? Did you know that lots of people in both categories assume everyone in the other category has/has not the same as them, and are therefore evil liars for disagreeing with them about religion? And this never comes up because people assume it's so obvious that they'd sound less condescending if they pointed out that water is wet?
This isn't just a spirituality thing, mind. The Ur example is mental images. Back in the nineteenth century, it somehow finally became a point of contention that visualization could involve actual visual experience, rather than just thinking about images. So someone did some investigating, and as it turns out, some people's imaginations trigger their actual senses, and some people's don't, and everyone just assumed the other was being poetic for the past 5000 years.
Likewise, some people have experienced divine presence, some people have not, and each has thought the others are evil liars for the past 5000 years.
This has theological implications, of course, but that's not what we're here to discuss.

Why someone believes something is probably a good way to what could change that belief. Start there. And don't get me started on the past decade of colleges. -.-

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I still, for all my disagreement with religion, still find it an interesting field of study, in fact, I do in fact love to learn about people's beliefs. And I think that even for non religious folks, religion may reveal some moral lessons, even though it's often hidden behind the Heaven/Hell/God/Satan mantra.

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Slender I agree.

The way I see it, almost all good sources of life's big questions come wrapped up in some sort of packaging.  For example, whether you're watching Star Trek or Stargate, each will present you with stories to make you question aspects of reality, moral dilemmas, and what it means to be human.  The same stories and questions will show up in both shows, scattered across several seasons and hundreds of individual episodes.  The main difference is that each comes packaged with the flavor of that show.  In one that packaging may be about human exploration, Romulans may attack at any time, and the warp core needs realignment.  In the other you need to keep the goa'uld from getting to Earth, keep the general public in the dark about everything, and liberate the rest of the galaxy from their oppressors.  Same lessons and big questions, but people will pick their favorite based on the packaging.  If you find yourself loving Star Trek, and believe its stories have expanded your mind/view, then you wouldn't fault anyone for loving Stargate just as much.  The packaging that you prefer is clearly not the important part that you feel has bettered you as a person... that same important part is clearly also important to the other person.

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Hi.
I am more of a person that believes in science and things you can proove by combining facts to get a big picture. I was always sceptic about gods and such, even though I was raised in a christian way, I lost my believe in god, which is also due to the death of the friend of my mother because of lung canser, I had a really good relationship to him and he was almost a part of the family.
I think that was the point when I told myself that i would never beliee in a false god. What is this for a god who loves all people and who lets those die whom you love? Or who starts wars and doesnt seam to give two shits about humanity and the situation down here?
These were questions I was asking myself. I havent stepped out of church, I am still a member, but this will not be long anymore.
I recently had a discussion with some people over religion and gay people, they were thinking that people are not supposed to be gay because god said that man should be related to women and women to man.
They were completely against the fact that there are trans or gay people walking on this earth, which is just a conservativ and close minded fact in my oppinion.
I dont care if someone is black, white, blue, gay, trans or what ever.
A closing note to all you religius people which I liked answered.
If god wants people to be together as I stated above, why did he create people which are different? Just that the sociity had someone to bash? Which would show that god doesnt love all people, does it? And no, dont come me with satan and hel, I will not believe that.
With that said.
Greetings Moritz.

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It's a toughy for just about everyone, even Christians.  Don't ever let anyone convince you that he or she has never posed a question like the following:
If God is omnipotent, why do I have cancer/blindness/insert random disability or disease or other chaotic number of problems?
If he's sovereign, why did he allow so and so who was clearly a good person to die?
If he's holy and merciful, why is there so much evil in this world?
And if he's God and he loves us all, why, oh why, would he not make it so that we all knew him, felt him, sensed him, understood him, could come to grips with him and wouldn't have to deal with our lives the way they are?
All of these words plus others such as omniscience, omnipresence, immutability, etc etc, become problems for just about everyone to comprehend, abstractions that are all meaningless particularly if you are going through a ton of heartache.  Sovereignty seems entirely tyranical, holiness is terrifying, omniscience is taunting, and immutability is tortuous.  This is when you either give up on God, or start seeking him more diligently.  I am convinced that, unless one has given up on one's self, he or she will not stop questioning these things and the way the world works in general.

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I am repulsed by gays, men not women, but that just proves what a deplorable piece of shit I really am. I am repulsed by the idea of being gay, two men having sex with one another. I am also repulsed by the idea of changing one's gender. I do, however, recognize their right to not only feel like the do, but to be who they truly are, and I would never infringe on that right. I do not have a problem with gay marriage, or a couple of such a marriage adopting a child. I feel that as long as the child is in a stale relation and there is love in the home, he will do alright. He may face challenges that other kids do not, like explaining why he has two dads. He very well might be persecuted, tormented, and bullied, but that can happen to anyone who does not fit within the mold that school society feels they should. Also schools now are taking a more active stance with zero tolerance towards bullying, I am not naive enough to think that solves the problem, but let's face it, any kid who is different enough can face the same issues. That difference can be with or without the kid's control. So, no reason why two people who are in a stable relationship can adopt. Hell, look at all the people coming from broken homes who have turned out OK. Some have, some haven't. Those that haven't are tending towards repeating the cycle of their parents. So, if two gay men or two lesbian women want to adopt, hell I don't see the issue.

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32

Hi.
Thanks for the comments in post 18 and 19. [wow]... I'm sorry to hear it's that extreme in the US. I really hope, for everyone, that things will change, and people will accept each other no matter who they are, and screw the religion stuff. As I previously have said, being gay, lesbian, trans or whatever is not something related to religion. The only thing religion is doing regarding to this topic, is hindering people in living their life as they wants to.
I start to realize why people from the whole world are visiting Denmark, Norway, properly England and maybe other countries in the Europe to join the gay culture. Here in Denmark, people are just being accepted if they are nice to others, especially in the gay culture.
Are people interested in a topic about gay, lesbian and trans without all the religion stuff? I'm quite afraid to start such a topic, because I don't wanna insult people in any ways. People are usually staying away from all this, simply because they don't know much about it.

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33 (edited by ogomez92 2017-02-15 10:53:00)

Whatever guys, whatever god yes, god without caps, says, doesn't have to be what everyone has to do. If your friend wants to be liberal, let her be libral. If you are too naïve to acept reality, it's not your friends problem but yours.

hth.
P.s: I really don't want to sound like an asshole, but anyone who doesn't accept how another person wants to live their life deserves to be smacked in the head with a bit of reality. Everyone deserves to live however he or she wants and you cannot chane your friend no matter how hard you try.

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Hello guys.
Well, I've been reading this post     in detail, and there are things I agree with, others don't. And here is my opinion on this: Yes, everybody can live however he/she wants, that's true, after all our living God created us with the posibility to make choices, but obviously each choice we make has its own consequences.
However,  God's word has a message for those of us who one day accepted Jesus in our hearts, received him, his holy grace, and decided to walk on his wways, not ours.
Hebrews 10:38 says: Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
What we have to do in this case is pray for your friend, my brother, she has the holy spirit on her and she knows where to go. We're not talking about hatrid here, guys, but we have to call things as they ar as christians. The good is good, and the bad, is bad. There's no half white or half black. Still treat her as your friend, I understand how it feels when a friend of yours who once was faithful to God moves away of  his/her christian principals, that's painful because we still love them. Now those of you who say: come onn, let everybody live however they desires, don't try to change a person to believe what you do, let me tell you. Its not us who  can change them, its GOd who does that change.

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Things are so tense in the U.S. because the democrats are obstructing the president's cabinet members' confirmations. The media is on a rampage, reporting stuff that's grossly inaccurate to outright lies, and again, the liberals are butthurt that their candidate didn't win, so they're doing everything in their power to stop everything the president is trying to do. The democrats would destroy our country rather than act responsibly. They've used tactics like filibustering and just plain not showing up to senate committee meetings. For one of the cabinet level nominee voting sessions, funnily enough, I think it was for Jeff Sessions for attorney general, well they voted to have the Sergeant  at arms request, i.e. get their asses down on the floor, the absent senators.

I would say I am more right than left, but this sort of childish behavior from the democrats, most of which are a hell of a lot older than me, is dangerous. I have said it before, but the welfare of the country transcends party lines. So, getting qualified people into the cabinet is important for the president to be able to do his job effectually. I think he got them all so far though minus one, I think he wanted someone else for veteran affairs sec, and he got Dr. Nulchin, if I'm spelling that right, but I could be wrong on this.

So, I have seen a lot, and I do mean a hell of a lot of animosity towards Trump, both people from the U.S., and abroad. Some of this I think is because he's actually doing what he said he'd do, and that's shakint things up, and people don't like change. But I can understand why people wouldn't like him, he's got this sort of way about him. That being said, I think he is doing a phenomenal  job so far, even without his full team in place. Let me just say this, it applies to everyone, but especially to those outside the U.S. If you have American channels on TV, or get news from American mainstream media, do, not, believe, a word of it. T e first amendment of the Constitution basically gives them free reign, and nothing we can do to stop them, unless they commit a crime, and you sew them and win. Libal Libel and Slander are both a common complaint. Also defamation of character. So if you do your research, in other worse, watch alternative media sources, read from trustworthy sources, etc. and you still hate trump, well OK that's your choice, but at least be informed at to why you hate him.

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@ironcross: wo, that's interesting. I'm myself a fox news follower, though I'm not from that part of America, I'm in south America. So we definetly should not believe them a single word? hmm, that caught my atention

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Separating fact from fiction is more trouble than it's worth. Or at least, it has been. If it turns out that Trump is the harbringer of the apocalypse like everyone left of Anne Colter seems to believe, then I suppose it would be worth the trouble... but when Obama won, the Right was being pretty ridiculous, too. It seems like we've seen escalation in the levels of ridiculous from the losing party since the end of the Cold War. The animosity was there for Clinton (Newt Gingrige, anyone?); then we had Bush V Gore, then we had the government shutdown and house Republicans vowing to make Obama fail and damn to consequences, and now we have ... whatever this is.
So, yeah. We either learn to compromise like decent human beings, or we stagnate, collapse, and pray that the world can do like it did in the millennia before industry and get along without the USA.
I like the first option, but I'm not presently employed, so what does what I like matter?

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@post34 God also made us all, and how God made us is how we are ment to be. The Bible was written dorring a time when people were told to go out and populate the Earth. That is no longer an issue as some countrys even have issues with a high population. God works in mysterious ways. God made people the way they are and we need to respect that. The first thing I learned in Cathlic school was not to judge others. It's funny how now Cathlics are doing a lot of judging.

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@jeff: Its true that God created different people, but he did not made homosexuals. He created adam and eve, not Adam and steve. Its true that we have to accept people as they are, but Jesus came to this world to change lives

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40 (edited by slender 2017-02-15 21:16:34)

@35 It pays to be careful what you're reading, though; just because a news source is "alternative" doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be factual. In fact, "alternative" news sources can be held to a lower standard than the media, and could end up spreading lies better than mainstream news outlets ever could.

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I haven't finished reading, but I just googled a bit... I'll just drop this,.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ashford01.htm
Note that I'm not religious whatsoever. Do what you like as long as it's not hurting people and you're fine.
I guess I could start talking about my view on the way Christianity seems to handle this, but Dark would just have to go all moderation on me, so no need for that. Needless to say, I'm in no way agreeing with it.

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@Andy93 ah yes God did make
homosexuals. God made all things from the very air we breathe to the grass that grows. God knows best let's not question his wisdom.

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Hi.
Well, people, know what, if you dont anoy me and go on my nerves about whom I should believe in or what I should do, I am fine.
As I stated above, I have nothing against people who are different, some of you do, well, cant do anything about it.
But, as long i dont have to believe that bogus about god or higher spirits, I am good.
Greetings Moritz.

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it intrigues me how people use the bible to say that gays, trans etc are against the teachings of god.

I'm sure somebody can prove me wrong but I did some research and I can only find 1 mention of homosexuality in laviticus which says a man shall not lay with another man.

on the other hand, there are 28 references to god not liking the disabled including laviticus 21:18. there are a few translations but they roughly say that the blind may not go in to the church of god.

here's one translation:

Indeed, any person who has a defect is not to approach the Tent of Meeting— the blind, the lame, one who is mutilated in the face or who has a very long limb,

it's strange how people take some bits literally but not the ones they don't like.

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I take the bible literally all the way through, unless it provides reason for me to take a particular passage symbolically, in which case I will.  ON the surface Leviticus 21 18 seems like God hating on blind people, lame people, etc.  What you did not mention is that these rules were intended for priests who had a myriad of responsibilities, one of which was presenting offerings to God.  while the offerers themselves were responsible for bringing the offering to the altar, in the case of an animal the offerer must slaughter it.  The priest was responsible for placing its blood and various parts upon the altar itself and burning it.  The priest was to offer a part of the grain offering on the burnt offering altar as a "memorial (portion)" to the Lord along with the salt of the covenant.  If the grain was offered raw then incense was to be added to the memorial portion to lend it an especially pleasing aroma as it burned on the altar.  The sacrifice process itself was stringent, and beyond that priests were expected to retain a ritual purity not seen in the average worshiper of God.  Outside of the church, priests were to be consulted concerning God's will, to pronounce blessings upon people, overseeing and or supervising the collection of tithes, the maintenance of the temple, and the blowing of the trumpet on festive occasions.  While I can see a blind person possibly being able to do a couple of these things in a world that was not what it is today, I can't see them meeting up to all the standards and responsibilities placed upon such people.  Moses himself, though leader of the Israelites had a speech defect, meaning he usually allowed his brother Aaron to speak for him.  Whether this was an actual speech impediment such as a horrible tongue tie or stuttering problem or something such as debilitating anxiety we do not know, but here is the perfect example of God using a disabled man to carry out a momentus task.

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46 (edited by SirBadger 2017-02-16 00:08:36)

Exodus 4:11
The Lord said to him, “Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD?

I'd say by that logic he also makes people gay or bi or trans too if you want to see that as a bad thing.

anyway, I don't want to get in to a big argument about symantics and theology I was just pointing out these things can be interpreted in different ways.

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neither do I, but it goes without saying that if you present a matter to someone who feels they have an answer more than likely they'll answer.  I don't even expect you to believe my answer, anymore than I expect you to believe that anyone knows who the Zodiac killer is.

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For the people who say I should accept this well I'm not going to. I used to be a atheist just like you guys who commented being for my friend until I realized what a load of crap atheists were saying and how out rages they were being even if it was just little things. As a Christian I'm not going to accept this. This has been pushed at us for the past 8 years by the liberal left who wants nothing more than to remove god from every freaking place in this country. Someone of you people who are for this and against religion try coming to the US and see how divided we are. We are on the verge of war with each other. And there is a lot of people who don't support this lgbt crap. Its poisoning the minds of are youth. Wile I do respect what you say I'm not going to agree with it. As I stated before the colleges are pushing this crap. The media is pushing this crap. They are taking god out of the classroom. May I remind you that we didn't see this stuff 8 years ago.

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@HURSTSETH:  Amen to that, my brother! I deffinetly agree with what you say. People, and our governments all around the world, want to take God away of anything as I said. Now I'm not one of those liberal christians that do not feel any kind of fire deep in their hearts, I think everybody knows it here, I'm a very conservative one. And I did not ment to accept it, that's not the message I'm  trying to give you. But instead, I just told you to keep praying for her, and if she is still your FRIEND, LOVE HER WITH ALL YOUR HEART, (and sorry for the caps haha). Both of us know that God can do everything, there isn't nothing impossible for him, and let me tell ya that here's a fellow brother praying for that cause.
@jeff: No no no, man. God indeed created men according to his image, but he did not created homosexuals. A homosexual is not a person created by God that way, its just a person who decided to take that path.
@badger or however your name is spelled: There is an important thing that we must understand before calling God a hater of the disabled. The passages you are talking about, as Nocturnus said, are taking place during the old  covenant, in the law of Moses. God asked from the priests not to have any kind of defects such as being blind and so on, but that was a requirement for the priest to serv  in the tabernacle.
Actually I like Nocturnus example of Moses, because that's how it is. In Jesus Christ, through his blood, not only every believer is called a priest of the new covenant but we who are not jews, the gentiles that is, have the opportunity to enter in God's presence, so according to Paul there is no jew nor greek, but only christians; This way, those of us who are blind, or crippled, if we are in dignity and want to follow/serv Christ, can do so.
I remember back in 2014 when Maria Luisa Piraquive, a Colombian pseudo preacher said that those of us who are visually impaired, or are missing a hand or a foot cannot be in the altar preaching or doing God's work because of the conscience, but that is a clear misinterpretation of Leviticus. I praize God today I can  go into the altar and sing how much I love him, and today I'm preparing myself as a pastor. So you can, as well, if you give your life to Christ!

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50 (edited by AlexN94 2017-02-16 04:22:30)

@Andy93:
When/why did you choose to be straight?
Are homosexual animals sinners too, and when/why did they choose it?
Why would someone choose a sexuality that could get them so much hate from all sorts of people?
What would make you decide to be gay if you had the choice?

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