Topic by leibylucw 2016-11-21 07:27:56

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Hi folks,

Has anyone checked out the new Microsoft Surface Book and the new Apple MacBook Pro?

I have to say, I'm quite disappointed with Apple's attempt at a new release of their notebook.  Between the touchbar that replaces the function key row and its inability to offer anything more than just upgraded processing power, I thank my lucky stars I bought a mid-2015 model when I did.  That's enough of the Apple side, at least in my opinion...

The Surface Book seems to be the highlight of Microsoft's line of products this holiday season.  What makes it at least an appealing machine is that it has the capability of transforming into a tablet.  If I'm not mistaken, the display can also be used as a touchscreen while in laptop mode.  The keyboard, from my understanding, detaches and provides functionality across different mobile setups.  Integrated with an upgraded battery expected to sustain a 16-hour cycle and an impressive 2GB dedicated graphics card (which can be upgraded to 4GB), the Surface Book offers quite a bit of power.

I currently own an MBP mid-2015 model with Bootcamp running Windows 10.  The battery, however, isn't so good when it runs the Windows side.  That is obviously to be expected.  I just sank $3,000 into this machine, so I'm not considering a Surface Book any time soon, but think it would be beneficial to take a look at if I need a machine dedicated for jhust Windows down the road.

In comparison with each other, the Surface Book offers better battery life, more power, and more functionality overall.  Apple seems to split the two pieces of functionality between its new MBP and the iPad Pro, whereas Microsoft implemented two in one work-around concerning the laptop and tablet modes.  The major shortcoming of the new MBP is that it doesn't offer the touchscreen.  I would have thought by now Apple would learn that it's lagging behind in the innovative way of handling its products, but alas, the lesson hasn't been learned yet.

Any thoughts on these two devices?  I don't know much about the Surface Book from a user standpoint since it hasn't been released to enough people to give any reviews.

Best,

Luke

What game will hadi.gsf want to play next?

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Reply by electro 2016-11-21 14:54:04

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I think surface book wins in my opinion, so I will purchase it, with Surface studio as my Intel I7's computer replacement.

73 Wj3u

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Reply by jack 2016-11-21 15:17:59

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Well, I guess one reason for not providing a touchscreen is because of the already existent multitouch, now force-touch, trackpad. But I agree, a bigger dedicated screen would've been nice. As for the touchbar, well, that's an innovation, but Apple's going too far into the future and leaving the present behind. That's always a trend. Usbc was a bad move, due to how quickly they moved to it as if usb was nothing. And with magsafe gone, gone are the days where you can freely trip on a powercord without bringing the mac to the ground. I actually would've taken a mac with no headphone jack over a mac without the magnet cord, as there are 0-latency usb soundcards for headphones.

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Reply by timberwolf1991 2016-11-21 19:56:27

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Hi,
Surface all the way for me.
I got to play with a 2014 air running windows. Right next to that was a surface 3 pro (not the 4).
The air ran hotter (and I mean, when the processor was maxed out you could hardly touch the computer). Installing max fan control helped a bit, but I shouldn't have to do that on a $1800 computer.
The surface pro 3, on the other hand, ran cool, silent and was a joy to use. The pain of installing windows on mac now is yet one more reason to go surface, especially if you bootcamp a lot. Older macs have it easy - newer not so much.
With the new macs out now, the touch bar may be usable under mac but windows will be a lot more difficult. Gone are the days where you can find f3 with a finger. You're only point of reference will be the number keys and moving your finger up from there, which is just all kinds of horrible at best, especially for alt f4. Productivity will go down by 75% unless we somehow figure a method out.
Don't factor out the surface pro 4. Though it doesn't have a dedicated dock, the cover is super nice to type on and it still gets decent batterylife. Of course if you're wanting the power of discrete graphics, go with the surface book but for what 99% of people do, the pro will do you just fine and price wise it's the way to go.
After all that, I own a dell inspiron 13. Absolutely love it. i7, 12 gb ram, and512 gb ssd. With accident protection and warranty for 4 years, 13% tax here in Canada I still managed to get it for $1800. The surface pro, let alone the surface book, was $400 more than this dell and that didn't include warranty of any kind for the same specs - or at least, close enough to the same.
Don't get me started on apples need of USB c now, too. On a computer starting at $1000 and coming with no adapters for anything is just ridiculous. Plus it just looks stupid - having to use a dongle to plug a simple USB cable into your computer is laughable, but that's just me.
And there you go. My observations.

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Reply by arqmeister 2016-11-21 21:31:25

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I grabbed a 2015 macbook air, so i'm good in the mac department. I still would like a better windows machine, because the laptop i have is pushing 6 years old now. The surface book would probably be a good option, have to check one out. Also the surface pro 4 with type cover would work for me as well.

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Reply by leibylucw 2016-11-21 22:11:50

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Jack, you brought up another good point I neglected to include -- the introduction of the USB-C ports and the removal of MagSafe power adapters.  Two more reasons to add to the list why I'm thankful for getting my MBP when I did.

What I like about the Surface Book is that it models after the MBP, where you can configure the machine to your needs.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the previous Surface Pro series didn't offer as many customizable specs like RAM and CPU power.

Is it me, or is the fact that it's made specifically by MS assuring?  If a company can produce the hardware and OS for a product they sell, I would almost expect it to live up to the awesome claims MS makes about it.

16 hours seems generous, but as always battery life varries depending on what activities you are performing.

Best,

Luke

What game will hadi.gsf want to play next?

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Reply by jack 2016-11-22 02:10:07

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All valid points on the ports. Alright, 2 usb ports on the mbp2015's a nuisance, but getting a usb hub solves that problem as long as it's high-powered. But Apple should not have gone usbc without providing hardware manufacturers plenty of warning, and by plenty I mean a few solid years, to transfer. What Apple is doing with Usb is what Microsoft did with Vista. Taking hardware manufacturers by surprise. Manufacturers are as ill prepared for the usbc embrace as they were with Vista's demands. And like I said, I'd be more than happy to take a mac without an audio port, since you can get a basic usb soundcard with input and output ports for next to nothing. But magsafe is one of the things that Apple would dis pc manufacturers about, so now they're turning away from that? Apple's starting to go downhill. I'm holdin on to my mbp2015. It should still get a few solid years of updating. As for touch id, I could probably get a biometric device to do the same thing.

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Reply by leibylucw 2016-11-23 03:25:57

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I fully agree.  I personally don't use any more than two USB-powered devices at once, but I can understand the inconvenience of being confined to just two ports.  I'm not too impressed with the touch ID capability, but it's a nice added feature.  I definitely will consider upgrading a Mac when 1. I need to, and 2. the MBP is actually worth investing money into.

Best,

Luke

What game will hadi.gsf want to play next?

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Reply by Sebby 2016-11-28 16:56:35

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Apple's and oranges, pun absolutely intended. This is as good a comparison as any. For horsepower you need a 15-inch MacBook Pro, but on the other hand, it's not really clear to me why you'd buy surface when the market has so many other competitors at lower prices unless you really want the tripped-out Microsoft experience (TM). One only hopes that they do a better job with this than with the last Surface Book which had horrible power-management issues. And, of course, there's the small matter of Windows 10 ...

I too am very, very happy I have the latest 15-inch 2015 MacBook Pro. I would not be interested in the Surface Pro original because it is dead-weight and very hard to lap.

Just myself, as usual.

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Reply by timberwolf1991 2016-11-28 18:02:10

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Hi,
The surface book and macbook pro are around the same price, unless of course you go for the one with Nvidia graphics.
Going on a bit of a rant here, don't mind me. But...
Seriously, I have a 2011 macbook pro. Yes, I understand it's older - it has a mechanical 5400 rpm hard drive. On a fresh install of Sierra, when voiceover comes up it's so bad it stutters. It goes busy constantly with the simplest thing - going to the app store is a 5 minute ordeal. Going through files in finder is like a dialup internet connection on speed - finder busy, finder busy.
Let's get back to windows 10 for a moment.
This mac has run windows 7, 8.1, and 10. Going through folders in windows 10 is about as fast on this thing as the ssd in my full sized desktop - unless you get into a folder with a lot of files. But still. It was never this fast under 7, or 8.1. I'm just really bewildered by why so many people are hating on windows 10. As long as you use common sense (and if you're not using any, you shouldn't be using a computer, in my opinion) you'll be just fine. Windows updates actually work as intended now and don't stop working if you have to restart your computer mid update. The updates themselves are installed stupidly fast, and with the windows 10 insider builds, accessibility is coming along nicely. Sure, edge is still not accessible - but who's been using microsoft browsers for the last 4 years anyway? At least browsing the web on mac is halfway decent now, I must say. Still, though, and this is just me, I find windows 500% more efficient navigation wise. Maybe I just don't know enough keystrokes, maybe I'm wolfishly inept at using voiceover but there you have it. I thank god every day I switched from using huge hippos of computers to these light, lightning fast and cool (literally cool, as in ice cold) smaller computers. I'll never go over 13 inches now when I can push over 10 hours of batterylife out of an i7 processor on a dell inspiron 13.
Anyway sorry about the rant I just had to get it out of the way.

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Reply by Sebby 2016-11-28 20:51:26 (edited by Sebby 2016-11-28 20:54:38)

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Slow OS X performance generally means it's time for a clean install. At the very least try an NVRAM reset (Command-Option-P-R at boot until it chimes thrice). My Mac Mini 2010 with HD and 8 GB RAM is doing fine under Sierra although I use it for running Windows XP nowadays.

My beef with Win10 is less about the OS (I use 8.1) but privacy. I don't like the direction MS are going in at all. I'll take another look at Win10 when M$ aren't snooping and I have complete control over what gets sent and when. Yeah, even with the bugs in macOS creeping up to insane levels, I'd still rather be two releases behind than on Win10. Maybe one day I will surrender, but not yet ...

Edit: Doh, missed the bit there about a "fresh" install. But at least try the NVRAM reset. Sierra bumped up the requirements a lot but it still shouldn't take minutes to open Finder or whatever. But yes I agree, Windows is a great way to use a Mac once Apple give up on it.

Just myself, as usual.

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