2016-08-27 10:59:46

zkline wrote:

IT took me a bit to get used to the fact that Enter no longer announces your current tile by default.

Ah, it is supposed to, but I screwed that up in the last second before uploading when fixing something else.


One suggestion for Espeak would be a way to save the preferred speech rate between games.

Ok, but I don't think it's a high priority, so probably not in the next update. What is your preferred rate anyway?


For that matter, is "suspending," still in beta? I'm surprised, given how long Brogue's been in development.

Yeah, saved game can sometimes "go out of sync" when being loaded back up. It's a kind of thing that is hard to track down where the problem actually is, so the author has not fixed it and I have not even attempted to fix it. The earliest version of Brogue I know of is 1.2, released in 2010, but the save game feature itself might be fairly recent.

2016-08-27 11:11:30

brad wrote:

Hello.

How do we fight in this game? I know I can get weapons but how do I hit monsters?

To engage in hand to hand combat simply move into a monster. You can also throw darts and javelins, or zap wands from a distance. Try using key x  to engage auto-explore, it will automatically fight and pick up items. But on deeper levels you don't want auto-explore to do fighting for you because it becomes more and more important who will get to strike first. If a monster is only two tiles away, that is one tile in between, don't move towards it, but instead rest one turn by pressing z key and the monster will come to you in the next turn, and then you will get to strike first. Be careful of jackals though, they are fast and move two tiles in a single turn, for them you need slightly different tactics.

2016-08-27 11:20:54

firefly82 wrote:

Another question: Could you add a manual for the game? If there is allready an existing one?

There is Brogue wiki, here are some links:
http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Brogue_Wiki
http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Beginner%2 … rly_Depths
http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Walkthrough
http://brogue.wikia.com/wiki/Monsters


NVDA-support would be realy great.

I could compile it to work in console mode for Linux, which would make it visible to screen readers, but I'm not sure if I can do the same thing for Windows. More importantly, wouldn't screen reader interfere by constantly trying to read the same stuff the game already reads to you?

2016-08-27 14:00:12

Hey hey!
Thanks for the very useful links!
I planed to check it all out in some hours.

Point with NVDA is, that it is allready running when you start the game and some of us are a little better experienced in the handling and the ... talkingstyle. Another point is, that it maybe would be easier for you to create more accessible windows for example for the Stats or the itemexplanations. Also NVDA would automaticly work in the prefered way of speed and so on.
Hope i could make it clear. Sorry, english is not my native language.

Best wishes and keep on this good work!

2016-08-27 16:49:21

Brogue console version for Windows download:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/brogue … 04_win.zip

Brogue console version for Linux download:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/brogue … c03.tar.gz


This will work with screen readers, but it doesn't have any speech functionality I added in Brogue-SPEAK, nor it has music and sound effects. The question now is whether are people more comfortable and prefer to use this version with their screen reader rather than Brogue-SPEAK, in which case I don't need to be making Brogue-SPEAK anymore and will just put music and sound effects in this version and that's it then.

2016-08-27 17:07:50

OK, i checked this new link but i think this version doesnt work for us. When i run the LNK it gave me the information to resize my screen-options. I couldnt read out anything.

2016-08-27 17:38:50 (edited by zkline 2016-08-27 17:41:01)

Something @BlindnDangerous mentioned on twitter this morning was that it is impossible to stop speech when it's in the middle of a super long string of messages, such as one gets when pressing M.

One of the things we're used to from screen readers in general is pressing Control, or perhaps some other key, and being able to stop speech mid-stream. This is some of what folks are talking about with NVDA, I think. It's not necessarily about a console version, I think most blind gamers who aren't technically-inclined would actually find that harder to use. From another point of view, NVDA itself would pretty much limit you to Windows, or at any rate make keeping the Linux version more work. It adds another dependency.

We definitely appreciate the work you've done on Brogue Speak thus far, and wouldn't want you to abandon it. smile

2016-08-27 18:05:49 (edited by LazyCat 2016-08-27 18:20:43)

firefly82 wrote:

When i run the LNK it gave me the information to resize my screen-options. I couldnt read out anything.

It seems you did manage to read that you need to resize the terminal window. The shortcut was supposed to resize it automatically and I don't know why it didn't. What Windows are you using?

In any case, until I figure out what's the problem you can try to resize it yourself, here are instructions:

1. Start the game like you did.

2. Open terminal window properties by clicking with the right mouse button on the window title-bar.

3. In that properties window there is a tab called "Layout", you need to select it. In this layout tab you can adjust screen buffer width and height, and also window width and height.

4. By default width is set to 80 and height to 25, but Brogue needs width 100 and height 34. Therefore change screen buffer width to 100 as well as window width to 100, and screen buffer height to 34 as well as window height to 34.

5. Once you change that and press OK button to confirm the changes you will be asked to apply the properties to current window only, or to save properties for future windows with the same title. Select the second option, to save the properties for future, and finally press OK button once again.

2016-08-27 18:15:38

zkline wrote:

We definitely appreciate the work you've done on Brogue Speak thus far, and wouldn't want you to abandon it. smile

Maybe it would be better if we start with this console version, so everyone can use their screen reader like they are used to, and then I can just fill the gaps and implement speech functionality only for things that screen reader can not do or can be done better by the game instead.

2016-08-27 20:07:18

OK!!! I managed to run this version! It was very very helpful to see how the game is working in normal! I learned a lot! So i can say, dont stop your first way of developing! We only have to make some little fixes. For example: It would be good to have something like a key with wich you can read out the stats of a selected target. And some keys to check the different abilities of items. And last: some kind of historywindow where you can scroll through all the happenings. Thats all i think.

One general question: I explored the first floor. And now i have to find the stairs to the next one. Could you add something like a map-search-funkction where you can enter for example the word stairs so you can travel back to it? HMM, or maybe a simple map where you can select items and stairs by pressing tab?

Oh and by the way! You did a great job with the sounds! They are speeding up the game for us a lot! Cause we dont have to follow all the messages all the time.

Best wishes!

2016-08-27 20:23:49

Firefly 82, you can actually just use the greater-than key to move toward the stairs automatically. The less-than key will do the same for the upward stairs.
Hope this helps a bit.

2016-08-27 20:41:53

Aaah, no, i thought this only works if you are on the wright place.

2016-08-27 20:44:09 (edited by LazyCat 2016-08-27 20:45:07)

firefly82 wrote:

It would be good to have something like a key with wich you can read out the stats of a selected target.

Yes, I plan to add that to the next update, for both selected monster and item targets, as well as for the player character and items in the inventory. Having that included I think will cover all the text in the game and after that it's just a matter of polishing, fixing bugs and generally improving how it all works.


firefly82 wrote:

And now i have to find the stairs to the next one.

As zkline said, use greater than and less than keys to set the target cursor at the stairs, then press ENTER and the character will go towards it. Although, it only works if you have discovered where the stairs actually are by exploring the dungeon floor first. If stairs are currently in the character's field of view you can also use TAB to select them as a destination target.

2016-08-27 21:45:44

Wow! Tats all very interesting!
I am looking forward to the next update:
One thing i forgot: Could you bring in something like a configuration file where you can set speech and audio volume?

And now excuse me please, there is a stair i have to climb!:xd

2016-08-27 22:15:47

OK! This is becoming realy realy funny!
One sugestion:
Could you add numbers for selecting visual targets?
I will try to explain it a little.
Yo have to switch through all the posible targets on screen for example to find out if there are one or two cobolds. If you could add numeric Selections we could check out all the stuff in a better way. Would be absolutely great to sort them from nearest to far.
1 would select a near warhammer on the ground and 2 an enemy who is a little more far.
Hope i could make it clear.

Another question:
Is there a hotkey to travel to an explored closed door?

2016-08-28 04:33:29 (edited by LazyCat 2016-08-28 04:59:12)

firefly82 wrote:

Would be absolutely great to sort them from nearest to far.

TAB function already sorts the monsters from near to far. And also, it first goes through monsters then items. If you already cycled through several monsters, press SPACE to reset target cursor then press TAB again to target the closest monster.


firefly82 wrote:

Is there a hotkey to travel to an explored closed door?

No, but perhaps I should add doors to be targeted with TAB function along with monsters, items, stairs, mechanisms and traps.

2016-08-28 04:51:49 (edited by LazyCat 2016-08-28 04:55:34)

Here is a new update. Like last time it contains only binary executable to replace previous one.

Windows update download: https://sourceforge.net/projects/brogue … te_win.zip

Linux update download: https://sourceforge.net/projects/brogue … lin.tar.gz


This update adds functionality to read full description of currently selected monster or item, including the player character, and as well as item descriptions in the inventory. Use left tick key to activate this additional info. Left tick key is the one above TAB and left of key 1, it's the tilde key without SHIFT.

Also in this update, when you call up messages history with SHIFT-m, use left and right arrow keys to go through last 9 messages. To close message history use SPACE, which is like ESCAPE key generally used for close or cancel actions throughout the game, like closing inventory, or canceling cursor and tab mode to return the cursor from a target back to the character.

2016-08-28 04:55:04

zkline, perhaps you should add the full game install links and the latest update links to your first post so people don't have to jump to reddit for the full install or go through this whole thread to find the latest update.

2016-08-28 06:00:27

I am not sure if the key is working. But maybe it is cause of my german keyboardconfiguration?

2016-08-28 06:24:24

LazyCat wrote:

zkline, perhaps you should add the full game install links and the latest update links to your first post so people don't have to jump to reddit for the full install or go through this whole thread to find the latest update.

Thanks for the reminder. Those links should be in the first post. Sorry I didn't think of that myself. smile

2016-08-28 10:57:05 (edited by LazyCat 2016-08-28 11:05:04)

firefly82 wrote:

I am not sure if the key is working. But maybe it is cause of my german keyboardconfiguration?

The issue is definitively different keyboard. As I see on the internet the problem seems can be fixed by changing keyboard layout to US. I'll utilize one more key for this function, but which one? Do you have backslash key and is it above enter key or somewhere else?

2016-08-28 11:04:31

zkline wrote:

Those links should be in the first post.

Thank you. Just a small correction. Linux executable file is called brogue-SPEAK and is located in bin folder, so that's the one to be replaced with the update. The file called brogue in the main folder is just a script that initializes libraries and then executes brogue-SPEAK from bin folder.

2016-08-28 11:26:25

HMM, yes, maybe i know where Backslash is located on US-keyboard. I will see if changing layout can fix this.

2016-08-28 17:31:52

If we could have a way to lower Espeak's volume that'd be nice, as with the last update it's clipping on every S word.

2016-08-28 18:19:10

Is there a way to level/increase stats? Maybe I just missed it.

Silly Gohan, animals don't eat people. People eat animals.