2016-06-24 23:58:45

I'm curious why so many people in the UK decided to leave the EU. I've heard that people want the UK to implement border controls to prevent the refugees streaming into Europe from entering, but I'm sure that can't be the only reason. Any opinions?

2016-06-25 00:39:33

Some people have said about controling their own laws. Honestly, I'm really confused about this whole mess, both sides seemed really confusing in the end.

2016-06-25 03:07:08

there seem to be a couple of reasons, all of wich are completely stupid.
First of all, the mainstream media demonised migrants, whipping people into a frenzy that had a lot of people believing that people migrating from other countrys within the EU were going to flood britain. These migrents were going to steal all the jobs, school places and Run the NHS into the ground. Britain's war mongering ways have caused people from outside the EU to seek Asylum  here also. Leave campaigners were all about britain taking back control especially of it's borders. A lot of older people got behind this, saying it was one of the primary reasons they voted to leave. When it was all said and done and the votes were counted, it was clear that it was people's fear and mistrust that caused them to vote to leave. Areas with high levels of migration, like london, manchester and edinburgh voted to stay in the EU by an overwelming majority, showing they didn't believe the bile spouted by the mainstream media. On the flip side, areas with very  low numbers of migrants such as castle point and North East Lincolnshire voted overwelmingly to leave
Then there was a large quantity of complete bloody morons who voted to leave, not knowing what they were getting themselves into. They mindlessly voted to leave, then headed home and...
Googled what would happen if britain were to leave the EU
The shear amount of stupidity on display here is mind blowing.
Then you have people that are like
Oh... shit I think we may have screwed up here
So it seems like a combination of stupidity and the zenophobic that drove the leave numbers. I don't doubt that there are people who voted to leave did so, having researched it and could give you a good, solid reason. But The masses of raaaaa migrents and well... I voted then I saw what happened and now I wish I hadn't voted that way people seem to be everywhere.
I voted to remain myself, along with the entirety of my country, but I'd be interested to heare other people's opinions on this.

Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.

2016-06-25 05:39:28 (edited by magurp244 2016-06-25 06:39:04)

The Nets lit up over the news, the irony here is this couldn't have happened without David Cameron allowing a referendum. Nobody expected this to pass, so he gambled that he would win to shut up the pro-Brexiter's who have been throwing around a lot of empty rhetoric and hate mongering. Except he lost, and now they've set an example for other disgruntled EU member's who may be considering their own referendum's to leave the EU. Now Britians economy is tanking because of the stock market fallout, and the rest of the EU could collapse. Of course Trump's happy about everything and see's it as a validation of his campaign, so take that as you will.

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2016-06-25 11:57:18

Hi.
Well, for something different, I have some thoughts about what will happen to brittain.
Let's see the stats shall we?
Brittain contains four cuntrys. England, Wales, Scotland and the northern part of Ireland.
I personally think that brittain is going to rip it apart.
Cause what I gathered from public news and independend blogs, Scotland and Northern Ireland already have stated their interest in a new referendum to part away from Brittain and join the EU again.
It has to be seen what will happen, also an important Information is that the Brexit referendum is not legally binding, we will have to see what happens in the next months and years.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2016-06-25 13:14:12

Hi,
I agree with brexitors, unfortunatellyu, because EU made some verry strange decisions in the near past, for example 500K € for each unassigned migrant from arabic countries.
Personally, I don't want muslims in the EU, because Europe was christianic and if they'll start colonising it that will change, so back to the topic: Brtitain wouldn't for example pay this money, so for them, this decision is good.

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2016-06-25 14:58:09

Dudeseriously? You are thinking that europe should stay christianic and the islamic religion should stay out?
I don't get how some people put their religious belief in front of rational thoughts, you are not better then the guys from the German AFD or the Pegida members, if you don't know the AFD.

Hail the unholy church of Satan, go share it's greatness.

2016-06-25 15:56:44

Well speaking as someone who actually did vote to leave, but believes the campaign on both sides has got waaay out of hand I can definitely come at this from a different angle.

First, it is not the case that the question is just about refugees and migrants, for all that a lot of right wing idiots believe it to be, though I will note that as someone trying! to marry an American and sort her legitimate entrance into the country I do find the current immigration situation more than a little silly, given that despite the fact my lady comes from a country britain has had exceptional relations with in the past ie, the united states, speaks English and has no dodgy leanings she is subject to a massive inquisition and ridiculously high immigration charges, where as were she coming from any obscure corner of europe for whatever reason there wouldn't be a problem, and yet there are! some fairly dodgy people coming into the country for far less good reasons without any scrutiny at all, (which I hasen to add certainly doesn't mean everybody from Europe is dodgy, just that the attention given seems extremely unequal).

The issue for me has always been one of administration.  A lot of random laws have been passed by the european parliament that just plane werent' in the interests of britain or didn't take into account situational changes over here.
For example health and safety regulation such as energy saving lightbulbs being manditory (despite the fact they actually make it so dim it's hard to see for someone who's visually impared), and a lot of trading standards stuff which make it far more economically difficult for smaller businesses in Britain to function.

For example, a friend of mine was the son of a pig farmer, and had a major beef (ha ha), with the fact that due to Eu trade regulations and the fact that the government was committed to lowering import duties, pork farmers in britain had no way of selling the meat they produced as compared to people in Spain who used extremely inhumane and cruel farming measures that would be illegal in this country.

That's not to speak of other issues, such as the problem of steel works being shut down, and far too many nationalized British services being sold of to european investers (it's fairly nuts that the national health service is currently largely administrated from Spain), rather than keeping things in the economy in Britain.

All that being said, I do think both sides of the debate have got far too nutty and over emotional and inclined to vote with the guts rather than the brain, and indeed the media currently, and trump, and everyone else proclaiming doom and gloom and the end of all things, after all Britain never did! have the euro anyway, and nobody ever said that Britain would stop trading! in europe, only that administration wise Britain was no longer part of the european union as a legislative entity, (nobody ever objected to when it was the e e c).

As to why trump and everyone else has got on the bandwagon, I suspect that is just an attempt to spin current events to whatever political advantage is needed, after all there is no logical reason why Britain's relationship with Europe will actually affect the relationship with the Usa, indeed if anything I suspect Britain and the Us will become politically closer, given common language and frequently common interests.

I imagine for all practical purposes the split from europe won't have that much affect after the initial "oh doom!" has faded out, just more self administration for Britain, and hopefully a bit more of a move back in the direction of nationalisation and against all this placate the big business crap which dominates politics at the moment, though i am a little concerned about whether it will be a platform for the nationalistic right wing nutjobs to gain more power in the country, which is something I'm definitely! against, since I don't imagine having Ukip, ie, the uk independence party in power would be a particularly good thing for anyone.

I know it may surprise people that me, probably the least patriotic person in the world voted in favour of leaving europe (my dad has the ability to vote for me by post hence why I voted against even though I'm currently in pencilvania), but for me it was mainly a question of administrative power and local interest, particularly given my views on multinational capitalism.
As I said, I doubt severely whether things will be as doom laden as much of the media predicts, after all similar predictions were made back during the recession in 2008, but we'll see.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-06-26 09:33:28 (edited by afrim 2016-06-26 09:42:27)

Hello,
Finally my hearing is improving, and I can make a comment on this thread.
I believe that despite the consequences of this referendum, Britain, and the people of Britain decided for themselves. Whether this will have a negative or positive effect, it finally showed us that if people want to be independent from politicians and news media, they can be, and hopefully triumphantly. I love the fact that people are taking their power back from the government and this is not a bad thing. Countries all over the World have different features and interests, as well as different ways of living, managing economy or wealth etc. I believe the world should be diverse like it has been in the past and not a standardised union.

I live in Albania, (one of the most corrupted countries in the world), and here the measures taken by our prime minister with the view to enhancing the way to Europe have caused massive disappointment among the population. Hundreds of people losing jobs, hundreds of people being arrested for not being able to pay taxes due to emphasised poverty and so on. And why happens all this? just to join the EU! A lot of people crying, a lot of students not being able to enter university because of their inability to pay fees and manage university life financially, a lot of businesses being shut down in order to favour those who are close to the government, or as a result of having not enough money to pay taxes.
I agree that here there's a lot of corruption from all classes of people, especially from those that hold the positions of doctors, teachers, professors, lawyers, ministers, and even the prime minister who is the most corrupted and evil person in the country, but this exists because people are under systematic pressure, all the time, by these people who keep them under their finger saying that if you do not act or do as I say, you're going to be in trouble, and I'll not complete what I have to serve to you.
But if people change, if people realise what their power is as a union, they can break even the largest and harshest mountain in the world.
This is my own opinion, and I know a lot of people will not accept, but everyone should have his/her right to speak as he or she thinks.
By the way ,
Cheers to Britain!

2016-06-26 22:02:34

Hello.

I was one of the stupid ones who voted to leave without actually knowing what I was doing.
I voted leave because my perrents did. Not because I knew what I was talking about. If I had it my way, people would all be treated equaly, it's what I do and I believe it is how it should be. My grandad on the other hand is very happy we're leaving because of imigrents being "forced" out of the country and other things like that.

Do I agree that that should happen? No way. Do I regret voting without actualy knowing what I was voting for,? Yes. This is why, hwen another voting avent comes around, I will research as much as I can.

The problem with this kind     of research is that we don't know what is fact and what is fiction. My grandad says all pms are trained lyers. I don't know how true that is but I do know that it's hard to find the "truth" within all the articles and videos.

I'm gone for real :)

2016-06-27 02:46:40

@Afrim, that situation in Albania doesn't sound good. In fairness however I will also note over here there are a lot of politicians who are in favour of leaving Britain. The prime minister was very pro europe, but a lot of other elements in the government, and even in the conservative party of which he is a member are anti staying in Europe.
As usual, the referendom isn't so much a move towards actual democracy as opposed to the semi elected, party based confusion we have, as it was another play in the cricket match that is parliamentary politics.

While British Politics is slightly less extreme in terms of lobbying by private interests or specific groups as things are in some parts of the world (ie America), one severe problem is that basically most political decisions have more to do with the jockeying for position between the various parties and the onrunning cricket match of westminster than the good of whatever issue is being decided.

Indeed, with all the silly litle traditions and heckling and generallly ridiculous rituals, I sometimes wonder how anyone! in the parliamentary setting can have a reasonable idea of trying to represent interests of the British people given that the hole environment is so utterly divorced from anything beyond itself, even when you have politicians who do! genuinely enter that environment with the good of the population as their first concern.

With Europe, it's been a contentious issue in the conservative party for a long time, indeed a lot of the support for the conservatives has drained to Ukip, the uk independence party.Cameran I believe was attempting to unify the conservative party, ie, getting people to support whatever policies he and the other party leaders wondered without going off and joining other parties by having a referendum, which to cameran's astonishment went the way he didn't expect, indeed my brother said the common joke in Britain at the moment is "If we'd known voting to leave europe would've got rid of Cameran, there would have been no question as to the outcome" big_smile.

@Brad, it irritates me that everybody makes it about migrants. Yes, the immigration situation and how people enter Britain needs looking at, but all this boarderline nazi "send em back where they came from" rubbish is quite ridiculous, and indeed rather scary.
To me as I said, it was the governmental issue, the fact that one country so distant from Britain in terms of culture and logic and so on, could make blanket decisions for not only Britain but so many other diverse places, and usually decisions that didn't have much by way of care or forthought for different places. I actually agree completely with Afrim here, uniformity is a bad thing, especially when trying to deal with so many diverse types of people and places across the world without taking into account the needs of anywhere specific, sadly the collective likes uniformity and converting people into statistics.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-06-30 19:23:01

I voted to remain, as did very nearly half of the UK. For me, the frustrating thing about the referendum is actually the people who now say that it isn't fair and that they only voted to leave as a reaction to dissatisfaction with British politics at the moment. I accept that the media is good at finding most extreme examples, but I even heard one story about a woman who voted to leave because she was unhappy with how her local (yes, local) government officials handled the closing of a public toilet. It seems that the leave campaign was primarily motivated by fear, prejudice and a lack of understanding, while the remain campaign seemed to focus more on the actual statistics and pros and cons of what leaving the EU means for people.

It's also worth remembering that EU legislation hasn't been all bad for British people. Working time and fair wage policies have improved working conditions in some ways. Also, I think that independence will lower Britain's political influence in the world. This desire for defended borders, and sense of national superiority, will just isolate us. Still, these are just my opinions.

2016-06-30 23:25:37

@welshweyr, while I agree the campaign on both sides was extremely mishandled, i'll also note that the stay campaign's depiction of those who voted to leave as basically a bunch of nazis and the implication that a vote to leave Europe was automatically in favour of nationalization and racist policies was equally involved with spin, but that's generally how political campaigns work, and to an extent most debates generally, very few decisions are based on rational choice, especially where a majoritarian prejudice is concerned.

Actually i'm sort of amused particularly with being in the states now just how much doom and gloom and spin is being stated. One particularly amusing comment was a very dire report that "now the boarder between southern and northern ireland will need full boarder control and checks since it's a separate country"

Hmmmm, really? Southern Ireland is a separate country with it's own boarder to britain? did this just happen now? Why didn't anyone tell us, you know perhaps in the last century or so big_smile.

What happens next we'll see, but really I don't think the doom sayers will be proved correct. AFter all, nobody ever said Britain would stop trading in europe or cease being part of what used to be the e e c, and heck we never had the Euro anyway.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-07-01 07:51:17

I believe there should be some nationalistic reasons which lead people to vote to leave the EU, but the point of immigrants sounds ridiculous at some extent. If all immigrants will be forced to get away from Britain, then it will collapse very soon after. I agree that Britain may not own the potential of giving home to newer groups of immigrants, but this does not mean to departure those who are actually working and living in England. Do you imagine what this would cause to smaller countries where these immigrantse come from?
There is a small city in Albania, where more than 40% of its population has migrated to Britain. In fact, a friend of mine who lives in London told me a sarcastic saying of him. He said that if I come across an Albanian, I don't need to ask him where does he live in Albania, because I already know that he and all the others are from there.
Anyway, it may not be true, or it is just my belief that the brexit will not have an enormous consequence to the life of Britain. Books for English learning will be sold again around the world, the English influence will not disappear to let French be spoken as a second Language in the EU as some medias predict, embacies will function normally, student experiences will be still shared among british students and those from other nations, it's just going to be a greater independence from the british side. After all, Britain will not become a communist nation to stop all the external activities with the outer world as some people predict.

2016-07-01 16:00:56

@Afrim, the migrant thing has got way out of hand on both sides.
Nobody says that Britain will suddenly turn into a nazi police state where anyone who wasn't born in Britain will be kicked out, or even that students and workers and tourists and others who have always been welcome to visit britain will suddenly be rounded up and chucked in the English channel big_smile.

It's just that the rules for entering the country will be changed somewhat. AFter all, it's extremely nuts that pretty much any random person from europe could just walk into britain and settle there for any reason, while my lady has to submit a massive form, interviews and 3000 pounds worth of paperwork to actually be! married!

This however wouldn't be a good enough reason for leaving europe in and of itself, and would be something that otherwise would've been easy to fix through normal diplomacy with other countries, and certainly wasn't why I! voted to leave myself.

As I said my own concerns were much mor about who, how and where made the lores that govern the people of Britain, hopefully a move to go against multinational coorporations who want everyone to live, act and above all buy the same things so that they can convert people even more into statistics in the prophet machine.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-07-02 19:07:44

From what I've read it sounds like there's a lot of xenophobic sentiment in the UK. But I know the media does tend to exaggerate, so it might not be very accurate. For example, this article (I'll paste the article underneath the URL):
http://www.news24.com/World/News/intole … n-20160628
Intolerant acts surge as Brexit referendum result sinks in
London - An Eastern European family in Rugby finds dog excrement shoved through its mailbox. A Londoner nearly gets into a fight over drunken slurs shouted on a crowded subway car. A Polish teenager in Gloucestershire is taunted with threats of deportation at her high school.
In the wake of last Thursday's vote to leave the European Union, Britain has seen a surge in xenophobia expressed in taunts, threats and worse. For many, foreign- and native-born, the UK has suddenly become much scarier place.
"Before Friday we lived in a tolerant society," said Oana Gorcea, a 32-year-old Romanian who has lived in Britain since she was a teenager. "I've been here 13 years, but I've never felt like I had to hide where I came from. But from Friday, things completely changed."
Gorcea, who works for a multinational company in Rugby, about 135km northwest of London, said her street was being patrolled by "English commandos who walk around and try to intimidate non-white non-English people". The talk of the neighbourhood was the dog faeces shoved through a local immigrant family's mailbox.
57% rise in hate crime complaints
Gorcea's story and others like it have been echoing across social media for days. Eastern Europeans, Muslims — even Americans and Germans — have reported acts of intimidation and harassment. Victims describe an emboldened angry fringe emerging to crow over Thursday's vote; a T-shirt sported by a man at an Armed Forces Day parade in the working class London borough of Havering over the weekend seemed to sum up the new attitude: "YES! WE WON! NOW SEND THEM BACK."
British reporters across the country have seen the resurgence of racism up close and personal. Adam Boulton, a presenter for Britain's Sky News, posted a message to Twitter saying he and his family had witnessed three separate incidents of when-are-you-going-home?-style abuse aimed at Europeans over the weekend. Channel Four's Ciaran Jenkins said that within a five-minute span in the northern England town of Barnsley, three people had shouted "Send them home!" BBC reporter Sima Kotecha said that she was in "utter shock" after having returned home to the southern England town of Basingstoke and been abused with a racial slur she hadn't heard "since the 80s."
Police are investigating vandalism at a Polish cultural centre in west London and incidents in Cambridgeshire in which cards were given to Polish residents calling them "vermin" and ordering them to leave the country. The National Police Chiefs' Council said there had been a 57% rise in hate crime complaints in the past four days compared to the same period last month.
Britain's sizeable Muslim community has also found itself caught up in the anti-immigrant backlash. Miqdaad Versi, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said that "hundreds of hate crimes" had been reported across the country.
"The type of language that has been used, like 'go back to your own country,' 'we voted this way, now you have to get out,' that type of language indicates there is some sort of link" to the referendum, he said.
'Open season for racism and xenophobia'
Those who championed the campaign to pull Britain from the EU have condemned the attacks.
"I've never, ever, ever encouraged or condoned behaviour like that, and I never, ever would," said United Kingdom Independence Party leader Nigel Farage, before adding that "the real prejudice is the prejudice that's been there for a decade or more against anybody that dares stand up against the establishment, anybody that dares to say that we shouldn't be part of the EU".
Other politicians didn't buy it.
"The leaders of the Brexit campaign have engendered an atmosphere where some people believe it is open season now for racism and xenophobia," said lawmaker Harriet Harman, a former leader of the opposition Labour Party.
For the victims, the link between the referendum and the abuse is clear. Immigration was a key issue in the campaign, with Farage posing in front of a massive, truck-drawn poster carrying a photograph of hundreds of swarthy migrants under the words "Breaking Point." Many "leave" voters cited the influx of foreigners as a top concern.
"Just because of one referendum ... it's coming out like woodworms," said Julie Sauter Daoud, a French-German national who has lived in Britain most of her life. On Sunday she got a firsthand encounter with xenophobia when two men overtook her car shouting, "Go home, you (expletive) German."
She said the attack, which happened while she was driving down a residential street in the northern English city of Sheffield, left her so shaken she was even scared to speak French to her youngest child at the supermarket.
"It's terribly sickening," she said in a telephone interview. "The first time ever in my life. Ever." She paused for a second. "Probably not the last time now."
'Worrying Signs' Facebook group
The 44-year-old's story is one of hundreds filling a Facebook group called "Worrying Signs", which is gathering evidence of the recent surge in intolerance. By late Monday the site was jammed with stories and photographs of sinister graffiti and even broken windows. Polish-British national Natalia Nicholls wrote on the site that her 14-year-old sister was taunted by boys at her high school in the Cotswolds region of England who boasted that "now we can get rid of the Polish and the blacks." Corinne Abrahams, 24, said she was returning from a music festival when she nearly got into a fight with an inebriated man yelling anti-foreigner epithets on the London subway. An American woman said she was recently accosted by people calling her a "Yankee (expletive)" in a parking lot.
The wave of rage has unsettled the country's political class, already in disarray following the Brexit vote. Prime Minister David Cameron, in his first appearance before lawmakers since the vote, reassured Europeans and other ethnic minorities living in Britain that they would be protected.
"Let's remember these people have come here and made a wonderful contribution to our country," he said. "We will not stand for hate crime or these kinds of attacks. They must be stamped out."

2016-07-02 20:00:29

I can't speak specifically since I've not been in Britain since the referendum.

Are there racist arse holes in britain? yes, definitely, though I don't think many other countries can say any worse.

Whether the referendum has encouraged more of said racist arse holes to show their own colours, or whether it is just that more of these incidents are now being reported to the media I don't know, it could be either.

One thing I will say is that the reported areas mentioned in the article, inner city London and sheffield are known to be not exactly the most pleasant parts of the country anyway, that would be like someone going to America and saying the country was awash with crime and gang violence due to what happens in New York and Los Angeles.

For the first time ever I find myself agreeing with nigel farage, ---- at least as far as the "brexit wasn't about racism" business, though his attempt to turn this back on the pro europe campaign is a bit blatant.

i personally hope this is primarily media based hype, particularly since in a few weeks I'll myself be going back to Britain with an American wife.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-07-02 21:09:57

Okay, I just spoke to a Russian friend of mine in London. She said she's not experienced any changein attitude since the referendum. There have apparently occasionally been racist morons in the past, but not any kind of upswing in same recently.

With our dreaming and singing, Ceaseless and sorrowless we! The glory about us clinging Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing; O men! It must ever be
That we dwell in our dreaming and singing, A little apart from ye. (Arthur O'Shaughnessy 1873.)

2016-07-03 18:08:28

@Dark, while I agree that neither side were exactly blameless in the matter of spin, it wasn't a member of the Remain party who shot and stabbed an MP on a public street with a shout of "for Britain!". It's undisputed acts of mindless aggression like that, actually murdering people in cold blood, that gives the Leave party its xenophobic shadow.

I'd also argue that leaving the EU won't actually help with burocracy and Capitalism in the world of business and industry. You really think that America, your current home, is without its ruthless and exploitative Capitalists? For most of the 20th century, it was the go-to stereotypical country for them. I just think that Britain's petty isolationism won't help our economy or our legal system at all. I think it will just make us look petulent and desperate and we won't be invited to join future trade deals because we're a small island, with too many people, and very little of our traditional industries to contribute to the world.

As for the border between northern and southern Ireland, it's quite possibly a valid point that it will need to be changed. It's not disputed that they're separate countries but it is a fact that relaxation of border controls within the EU will not, strictly speaking, apply on that border any longer, once Britain leaves the EU.